SRQ_BillsFan Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 I'm betting the majority of citizens who voted for the DA learned who Dareus was for the first time when they saw his car on the tree. If the cops find the driver's car, backwards, on the wrong side of the road, wrapped around a tree, do you really think the cops (or a jury) will need to locate the witness who called it in to conclude what happened? You could have saved yourself a lot of effort (and face) if you had limited your response to this entire discussion with your above conclusion: that you know he's obviously guilty, but as a fan you wouldn't convict under any weight of evidence. Everyone here, I'm certain, has assumed he's guilty of what he is charged with--reckless driving. Yet there seems to be some belief that a jury, knowing the same things that we all know to this point, would somehow not be able to, or not be allowed to, come to the same conclusion that everyone else here has. John, if the DA went to court today with only what is publicly known about this incident, the jury would reach of verdict. Why would they conclude any differently than the posters here? As with any crime where there are no witnesses (or videotape) to testify, the jury is being asked to do exactly what you say---voting based on what they think they know. The "proof" lies in the ability of the DA to convince the jury of what happened. No, Darues wouldn't testify in such a case. But the defense would still have to examine the state's witnesses (cops, Hughes) and they would HAVE to establish some plausible alternative explanation for how Dareus's car came to meet the tree: i.e., that the people who clued the cops were lying or don't understand what two cars racing on the road REALLY looks like. It's an impossible task. Hey now! What are we supposed talk about? Soccer's over (isn't it?). I just get a kick out of posters saying "well, yes he's guilty, but you could never convince a jury of it!". As for doc, he always sooner or later will toss out his argument for the obvious "he's a Bill, I would never convince him of anything". It just took "later" than "sooner" this time. Whether or not I think he is guilty right now doesn't matter. If I were selected to be on this jury ( not that there will ever be one ) I would do my job with an open mind and the state would have to prove their case before I would vote guilty. I would make the assumption that what I'd heard or read was journalism written to appear more interesting and sensational than what was reported. I would hope that any member of the jury didn't sit in assuming the man was guilty based on Buffalo radio tv and newspaper.
Doc Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 This thread is proof positive that 2-3 people can argue the same points ad infinitum. Well, when 3 (really) people enjoy playing sadist to the other one's masochism... If the cops find the driver's car, backwards, on the wrong side of the road, wrapped around a tree, do you really think the cops (or a jury) will need to locate the witness who called it in to conclude what happened? Good point. The conclusion is speeding and losing control. Since, you know, the alleged drag racing partner wasn't charged. You could have saved yourself a lot of effort (and face) if you had limited your response to this entire discussion with your above conclusion: that you know he's obviously guilty, but as a fan you wouldn't convict under any weight of evidence. You could have saved yourself from utter humiliation by 3 different people by not responding to this thread. Oh well. Oh and I mentioned the Bills fan angle on July 8th. You know, when the subject moved to it actually going to trial, which it won't. Everyone here, I'm certain, has assumed he's guilty of what he is charged with--reckless driving. Yet there seems to be some belief that a jury, knowing the same things that we all know to this point, would somehow not be able to, or not be allowed to, come to the same conclusion that everyone else here has. Ever heard of the OJ Simpson case? As for doc, he always sooner or later will toss out his argument for the obvious "he's a Bill, I would never convince him of anything". It just took "later" than "sooner" this time. As opposed to you who would put every Bills player in jail. Yet no doubt if one of your kids gets into trouble, you'd be the first one to make excuses for him/her.
JohnC Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Ever heard of the OJ Simpson case? His case was a clear case of jury nullification. For the jury it wasn't so much about his football status as it was his racial status and its perception of the police department. Edited July 13, 2014 by JohnC
3rdand12 Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 Whether or not I think he is guilty right now doesn't matter. If I were selected to be on this jury ( not that there will ever be one ) I would do my job with an open mind and the state would have to prove their case before I would vote guilty. I would make the assumption that what I'd heard or read was journalism written to appear more interesting and sensational than what was reported. I would hope that any member of the jury didn't sit in assuming the man was guilty based on Buffalo radio tv and newspaper. One would hope so. But i bet one of the questions for jury selection will be to discern whether you are a Bills fan . hardly impartial as much as you might wish to be . I dont doubt your values sir. Just saying I dont think any of us here would be allowed in a trial for a Bill. What the hell is the lesser charge folks are considering. Its already been lessened about as much as you can ?
Luxy312 Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 Civil versus criminal gents. HUGE difference in threshold and requirements for judgment under the law...
Doc Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 His case was a clear case of jury nullification. For the jury it wasn't so much about his football status as it was his racial status and its perception of the police department. That's another 6 page (at least) debate. One would hope so. But i bet one of the questions for jury selection will be to discern whether you are a Bills fan . hardly impartial as much as you might wish to be . I dont doubt your values sir. Just saying I dont think any of us here would be allowed in a trial for a Bill. What the hell is the lesser charge folks are considering. Its already been lessened about as much as you can ? The DA won't be able to throw out every Bills fan. Just like Marcell's lawyer won't be able to throw out everyone who has read about the case. And people can lie.
3rdand12 Posted July 13, 2014 Posted July 13, 2014 That's another 6 page (at least) debate. The DA won't be able to throw out every Bills fan. Just like Marcell's lawyer won't be able to throw out everyone who has read about the case. And people can lie. People sure can lie. Interesting to watch . I think you are right about jury choosing. But i would be mighty surprised if it went that far as i suppose most of folks are
Mr. WEO Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Well, when 3 (really) people enjoy playing sadist to the other one's masochism... Good point. The conclusion is speeding and losing control. Since, you know, the alleged drag racing partner wasn't charged. You could have saved yourself from utter humiliation by 3 different people by not responding to this thread. Oh well. Oh and I mentioned the Bills fan angle on July 8th. You know, when the subject moved to it actually going to trial, which it won't. Ever heard of the OJ Simpson case? As opposed to you who would put every Bills player in jail. Yet no doubt if one of your kids gets into trouble, you'd be the first one to make excuses for him/her. The charge is no longer drag racing doc. It's been reduced to reckless driving only. I'm not blaming his lawyer for defending the guilty, and I don't want the guy to go to jail. You can line up and shoot down all the straw men you want. His case was a clear case of jury nullification. For the jury it wasn't so much about his football status as it was his racial status and its perception of the police department. You are absolutely correct, but doc thinks otherwise (see below). That's another 6 page (at least) debate. No, it's really not doc. It was classic jury nullification.
Doc Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 The charge is no longer drag racing doc. It's been reduced to reckless driving only. I'm not blaming his lawyer for defending the guilty, and I don't want the guy to go to jail. You can line up and shoot down all the straw men you want. The penalty for drag racing (illegal speed contest) is the same for reckless driving. Again it's hardly a deal to jump at, especially since it's still on the table. I'd play it like Lynch's DUI case and keep postponing it and postponing it and then accept a reduced charge in a few years. You are absolutely correct, but doc thinks otherwise (see below). No, it's really not doc. It was classic jury nullification. Whether it was or not, I'm not getting into it.
Mr. WEO Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 The penalty for drag racing (illegal speed contest) is the same for reckless driving. Again it's hardly a deal to jump at, especially since it's still on the table. I'd play it like Lynch's DUI case and keep postponing it and postponing it and then accept a reduced charge in a few years. Whether it was or not, I'm not getting into it. Then you definitely want to stay away from that "the world is flat/round" debate...
CountryCletus Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Well, when 3 (really) people enjoy playing sadist to the other one's masochism... Good point. The conclusion is speeding and losing control. Since, you know, the alleged drag racing partner wasn't charged. You could have saved yourself from utter humiliation by 3 different people by not responding to this thread. Oh well. Oh and I mentioned the Bills fan angle on July 8th. You know, when the subject moved to it actually going to trial, which it won't. Ever heard of the OJ Simpson case? As opposed to you who would put every Bills player in jail. Yet no doubt if one of your kids gets into trouble, you'd be the first one to make excuses for him/her. Imagine if most active posters showed up at a tailgate... How many fists do you think would be thrown? HAHAHAHAHAHA I'm guessing none- hugs all around!! What ever happened to Simon?
CountryCletus Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Hahahaha!!! Reminds me of the signs outside of the factories advertising their days without injury... They somehow never make it to double digits
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 I heard this morning that a 5th Ravens player was arrested over the weekend. Other than Big D who else on the Bills has had legal issues? Ravens cornerback Jimmy Smith arrested after incident in ...
CountryCletus Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 I heard this morning that a 5th Ravens player was arrested over the weekend. Other than Big D who else on the Bills has had legal issues? Ravens cornerback Jimmy Smith arrested after incident in ... I can't think of anyone off hand...
JohnC Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 What ever happened to Simon? What happened to San Jose Bill? He used to be one of the most prolfic and good posters? Did he leave in anger?
YoloinOhio Posted July 14, 2014 Author Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) I heard this morning that a 5th Ravens player was arrested over the weekend. Other than Big D who else on the Bills has had legal issues? Ravens cornerback Jimmy Smith arrested after incident in ... Please do not jinx us. But we haven't heard yet whether Hughes will be charged in the drag race - or did I miss that? Ozzie has some issues in Baltimore. Guess he and Harbaugh have considerable latitude though with that recent SB. Edited July 14, 2014 by YoloinOhio
CountryCletus Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Please do not jinx us. But we haven't heard yet whether Hughes will be charged in the drag race - or did I miss that? Ozzie has some issues in Baltimore. Guess he and Harbaugh have considerable latitude though with that recent SB. I see a correlation between teams that take risks with players that have character issues and those that don't.,. High risk, high reward- but almost ALWAYS those character issues come to the forefront again... Yeah- SJB has vanished too!!! Whatnots going on here????
JohnC Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Yeah- SJB has vanished too!!! Whatnots going on here???? I'm simply speculating as to why he stopped appearing. He might have gotten upset at the way this site was being run. I got very upset when I was sanctioned by the monitor and wasn't informed as to why I was sanctioned. For the life of me I couldn't figure out what was the problem and I couldn't get an explanation from the monitor. It got me so irritated that I took some time off from this site before getting back into the room. Maybe that is what happened with him??
YoloinOhio Posted July 14, 2014 Author Posted July 14, 2014 I see a correlation between teams that take risks with players that have character issues and those that don't.,. High risk, high reward- but almost ALWAYS those character issues come to the forefront again... Yeah- SJB has vanished too!!! Whatnots going on here???? Every day that passes and all is quiet on the Mike Williams front is a gift.
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