Doc Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Plenty of people get bad legal advice. But really, why would the DA keep dropping the charges? People get bad advice from bad lawyers (and doctors playing lawyer). I doubt Marcell has a bad lawyer. And why would the DA keep dropping the charges? Because he's got almost nothing. To be drag racing, you need a partner. Hughes wasn't charged so that means he can't go that route despite your belief that there are no "mitigating factors." The DA also doesn't want to waste taxpayer money taking this thing to trial. If he thought he had something, Hughes would be charged and/or he'd have pulled the plea deal after it was rejected. And you keep pretending this is about spice. As usual, you're being disingenuous. It's about a felony, whether you personally disagree with the laws in Alabama, the NFL doesn't care. The NFLPA can't change a ruling by the Commissioner based on his discretion regarding the personal conduct rule. They gave that away. The felony charge will be expunged once he completes the PTI, and even though Marcell is a star football player, this PTI is available to everyone who is a 1st time offender charged with a non-violent crime. Goodell lets the law run its course and steps in with the PCP when he feels the player got away with something that ordinary people wouldn't. Moreover since I can see the Bills suspending him for a game, I doubt he'd do anything more anyway.
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 People get bad advice from bad lawyers (and doctors playing lawyer). I doubt Marcell has a bad lawyer. And why would the DA keep dropping the charges? Because he's got almost nothing. To be drag racing, you need a partner. Hughes wasn't charged so that means he can't go that route despite your belief that there are no "mitigating factors." The DA also doesn't want to waste taxpayer money taking this thing to trial. If he thought he had something, Hughes would be charged and/or he'd have pulled the plea deal after it was rejected. The felony charge will be expunged once he completes the PTI, and even though Marcell is a star football player, this PTI is available to everyone who is a 1st time offender charged with a non-violent crime. Goodell lets the law run its course and steps in with the PCP when he feels the player got away with something that ordinary people wouldn't. Moreover since I can see the Bills suspending him for a game, I doubt he'd do anything more anyway. The DA "has nothing"? Then why did he charge him with, essentially, drag racing? He doesn't need the guy he was drag racing with (that's anew legal concept). All he needs is the cops to testify that they responded to a 911 of two guys drag racing, one of whom lost control of his car and drove nearly through a restaurant. How is that nothing? As for the PCP, you made the same claim about Lynch, so I'll take your conclusion with due skepticism. At least you dropped the NFLPA nonsense.
Doc Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 The DA "has nothing"? Then why did he charge him with, essentially, drag racing? He doesn't need the guy he was drag racing with (that's anew legal concept). All he needs is the cops to testify that they responded to a 911 of two guys drag racing, one of whom lost control of his car and drove nearly through a restaurant. How is that nothing? As for the PCP, you made the same claim about Lynch, so I'll take your conclusion with due skepticism. At least you dropped the NFLPA nonsense. Yes, he does need the other guy to show it was a coordinated event. He can charge Marcell with whatever he wants, but proving it will be the problem. And it takes more than the cops responding to what appeared to be a drag race. The best he can hope for is reckless driving but Marcell's attorney is having none of that. We'll see who wins. As for the PCP, it was relatively new at the time. And I don't recall saying he wouldn't be suspended, but instead that he shouldn't. And again I allowed for Goodell thinking Lynch got away with a DUI hit-and-run. And the only nonsense is your "the NFLPA signed off on the PCP." As if they don't get involved in their players' issues.
Doc Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Speaking of Lynch, since his DUI is going to be reduced to "reckless driving," I'm curious to see what Goodell with him. Seems at least a half year suspension should be in order, no?
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Yes, he does need the other guy to show it was a coordinated event. He can charge Marcell with whatever he wants, but proving it will be the problem. And it takes more than the cops responding to what appeared to be a drag race. The best he can hope for is reckless driving but Marcell's attorney is having none of that. We'll see who wins. As for the PCP, it was relatively new at the time. And I don't recall saying he wouldn't be suspended, but instead that he shouldn't. And again I allowed for Goodell thinking Lynch got away with a DUI hit-and-run. And the only nonsense is your "the NFLPA signed off on the PCP." As if they don't get involved in their players' issues. Coordinated event?! Look, this isn't the NHRA Summernationals. It's two guys lining up at a light and taking off. Everyone, including all potential jurors understand that Dareus was drag racing with his team mate, drove recklessly and nearly caused great harm to himself and others. You and Dareus cannot credibly deny any of this. The NFLPA absolutely signed off on the PCP. It's a matter of record. The policy exixts, and they have voted as a group to allow the Commissioner to decide such cases and mete out punishment as he sees fit. If they have a problem with any such supensions, they can certainly bring it up at the drafting of the next CBA. Otherwise, it's not clear what you are talking about regarding "getting involved"... Speaking of Lynch, since his DUI is going to be reduced to "reckless driving," I'm curious to see what Goodell with him. Seems at least a half year suspension should be in order, no? Lynch should face a heavy suspension. If fact, it seems he would be inviolation of his parole from 2009.
Doc Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Coordinated event?! Look, this isn't the NHRA Summernationals. It's two guys lining up at a light and taking off. Everyone, including all potential jurors understand that Dareus was drag racing with his team mate, drove recklessly and nearly caused great harm to himself and others. You and Dareus cannot credibly deny any of this. The NFLPA absolutely signed off on the PCP. It's a matter of record. The policy exixts, and they have voted as a group to allow the Commissioner to decide such cases and mete out punishment as he sees fit. If they have a problem with any such supensions, they can certainly bring it up at the drafting of the next CBA. Otherwise, it's not clear what you are talking about regarding "getting involved"... Two guys lining up and taking off...yet only one was charged. What (if this sadly goes to trial) do you think Marcell's lawyer is going to ask the prosecution? So at best all they can prove is speeding and losing control. No doubt they were drag racing, but it's a matter of what they can prove. No, the NFLPA didn't "sign off" on the PCP. Why you keep repeating that, as if the more times you say it it will magically come true, is anyone's guess! They agreed to Goodell having a PCP. They however did not say they'd have no say in anything and not intervene on the players behalves.
Big Turk Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 If that plea deal involves having to surrender his license, I'd wait for a deal that doesn't involve that. Doesn't matter. Spice isn't tested for or banned by the NFL. Goodell can't touch him with respect to the drug policy. The only way he could possibly suspend him is through the personal conduct policy, but the NFLPA will make sure that that doesn't happen because they don't want to see their players suspended for substances that aren't banned/tested for, especially when charges are dropped, or for moving violations. Wouldn't reckless driving fall under the conduct policy as well tho?
Doc Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Wouldn't reckless driving fall under the conduct policy as well tho? Why would it?
Mr. WEO Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Two guys lining up and taking off...yet only one was charged. What (if this sadly goes to trial) do you think Marcell's lawyer is going to ask the prosecution? So at best all they can prove is speeding and losing control. No doubt they were drag racing, but it's a matter of what they can prove. No, the NFLPA didn't "sign off" on the PCP. Why you keep repeating that, as if the more times you say it it will magically come true, is anyone's guess! They agreed to Goodell having a PCP. They however did not say they'd have no say in anything and not intervene on the players behalves. No, it's a matter of what they can convince a jury of. You know this. So does the jury pool. Not sure why you are pretending otherwise. So the NFLPA didn't "sign off", they "agreed to Goodell having" the PCP. Whatever you prefer. But tell us what, exactly, "say" the union has--and how can they "intervene"? Just get on with it already. Let's hear it.
Doc Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 No, it's a matter of what they can convince a jury of. You know this. So does the jury pool. Not sure why you are pretending otherwise. So the NFLPA didn't "sign off", they "agreed to Goodell having" the PCP. Whatever you prefer. But tell us what, exactly, "say" the union has--and how can they "intervene"? Just get on with it already. Let's hear it. Yes, "it's a matter of what they can prove" means "to a jury." You should know this. It's not a matter of which I prefer. The NFLPA didn't just give Goodell his PCP and then wash their hands of it. That would be stupid.
Mr. WEO Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Yes, "it's a matter of what they can prove" means "to a jury." You should know this. It's not a matter of which I prefer. The NFLPA didn't just give Goodell his PCP and then wash their hands of it. That would be stupid. The jurors already know they were drag racing, doc--it was all over the news and in the papers. Hughes has admitted they were racing! What's your point--the DA will struggle to "prove" what the public already believes, and therefore he is at a disadvantage? That makes no sense. And, again, what is the NFLPA's recourse after the Commissioner hands down a suspension based on PCP?
Doc Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 The jurors already know they were drag racing, doc--it was all over the news and in the papers. Hughes has admitted they were racing! What's your point--the DA will struggle to "prove" what the public already believes, and therefore he is at a disadvantage? That makes no sense. And, again, what is the NFLPA's recourse after the Commissioner hands down a suspension based on PCP? Hughes admitted no such thing. If he had, he'd have been charged as well. Again all Marcell's lawyer needs to do is bring this up and the defense rests. It doesn't matter what paper they read. Moreover, at least one juror also watches TV, namely Bills games, and is a Bills fan. One "nay" vote and he's free. You should know this. The NFLPA and NFL can work out an agreement on a reduction in the number of games suspended. Trust me when I tell you that the players aren't flying blind. It's in the NFLPA's best interest to get involved in each and every case, and again, allowing Goodell to have a PCP doesn't mean he's the only one with any say and/or his word is final.
Mr. WEO Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Hughes admitted no such thing. If he had, he'd have been charged as well. Again all Marcell's lawyer needs to do is bring this up and the defense rests. It doesn't matter what paper they read. Moreover, at least one juror also watches TV, namely Bills games, and is a Bills fan. One "nay" vote and he's free. You should know this. The NFLPA and NFL can work out an agreement on a reduction in the number of games suspended. Trust me when I tell you that the players aren't flying blind. It's in the NFLPA's best interest to get involved in each and every case, and again, allowing Goodell to have a PCP doesn't mean he's the only one with any say and/or his word is final. From CBS: "Bills defensive end Jerry Hughes confirmed he was driving the second car in an alleged race on city streets that led to teammate Marcell Dareus crashing his 2012 Jaguar into a tree last week. "I was there. I was involved in it," said Hughes following practice Wednesday." Marrone knew Hughes was racing. Likely the whole team knew also. DA puts Hughes on the stand and asks him, "where you and Dareus racing?". He says "yes" (he can't claim otherwise at this point). And the Defense says....what? The defense rests? Come on doc, it doesn't matter whether they charged Hughes. He admitted it. They only charged Dareus because he was obviously not able to control his car and almost had a serious accident. You're grasping at straws... And the Commissioner has been criticized by the players and the NFLPA because he has so much discretionary and unilateral power to punish players--including hearing their appeals. Look at the BountyGate affair. The NFLPA did nothing for the players except whine. The only reason those suspensions got reduced or vacated is becuae Goodell decided to toss it to Tags (to take the heat off of him). Sorry, I'm not going to trust you on this one--you've given me nothing other than "oh, believe me, they will".
SRQ_BillsFan Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Hughes has said he was involved but never did he use the term in a race. All Darius has to say I was trying to pass him and he sped up, so I went a bit faster to get around him and lost control. It's speeding and reckless driving unless they have a strong eye witness or some other proof. I am quite sure Darius' attorney knows the laws and burden of proof. What we all think or have read is conjecture until proven in court. The DA has to show all of the evidence he has. If they didn't think they could win they would take the deal, his lawyer isn't dumb. They could still lose, but they don't think they will obviously. Edited July 8, 2014 by SRQ_BillsFan
Doc Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 From CBS: "Bills defensive end Jerry Hughes confirmed he was driving the second car in an alleged race on city streets that led to teammate Marcell Dareus crashing his 2012 Jaguar into a tree last week. "I was there. I was involved in it," said Hughes following practice Wednesday." Marrone knew Hughes was racing. Likely the whole team knew also. DA puts Hughes on the stand and asks him, "where you and Dareus racing?". He says "yes" (he can't claim otherwise at this point). And the Defense says....what? The defense rests? Come on doc, it doesn't matter whether they charged Hughes. He admitted it. They only charged Dareus because he was obviously not able to control his car and almost had a serious accident. You're grasping at straws... And the Commissioner has been criticized by the players and the NFLPA because he has so much discretionary and unilateral power to punish players--including hearing their appeals. Look at the BountyGate affair. The NFLPA did nothing for the players except whine. The only reason those suspensions got reduced or vacated is becuae Goodell decided to toss it to Tags (to take the heat off of him). Sorry, I'm not going to trust you on this one--you've given me nothing other than "oh, believe me, they will". Look, I already conceded that we all know they were drag racing. But I also said, and you admitted, it's about what you can prove to a jury. Hughes being interviewed but not charged is a huge blow to their case since you can't be drag racing yourself (because it's then called "speeding"). And just the fact alone that he wasn't charged proves he didn't admit to racing, as SRQ corroborated that. They have no case for drag racing. And again there's that pesky thing of having a jury with at least 1 Bills fan on it. Again the DA knows he has little, is keeping the plea deal on the table hoping Marcell will bite (he won't), and will likely reduce it the closer trial time gets. If it goes to trial, the DA should be fired. As for the NFLPA, do a search on NFLPA and compromising with the NFL on suspension reductions. And Smith has been vocal about players being caught with spice. Hughes has said he was involved but never did he use the term in a race. All Darius has to say I was trying to pass him and he sped up, so I went a bit faster to get around him and lost control. It's speeding and reckless driving unless they have a strong eye witness or some other proof. I am quite sure Darius' attorney knows the laws and burden of proof. What we all think or have read is conjecture until proven in court. The DA has to show all of the evidence he has. If they didn't think they could win they would take the deal, his lawyer isn't dumb. They could still lose, but they don't think they will obviously. Reckless driving is already on the table. And Dareus won't say anything other than he was driving fast and lost control.
billybrew1 Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I hated that old headline.....especially the first time I saw it.....
Turbosrrgood Posted July 9, 2014 Posted July 9, 2014 So this is kind of like one of those union signs that says "xxx days without an accident"?
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