Former Jills suing the Bills

[Metal Man]

I know a few girls that were on the Jills in the mid to late 90s. One of them I graduated with and I noticed this morning she posted an article about this on facebook yesterday. She had a ton of comments on it from a bunch of girls who from the sound of it were her team mates along the way. Not sure if this will be surprising to anyone on this thread but of the 7 or 8 women commenting none appeared to be behind these girls and this lawsuit. Every one of them was of the opinion that they knew the deal going in and that these girls should have too.

 

Found that kind of interesting so just thought I'd share.

[Maury Ballstein]

Disagree with all of the get rid of cheerleader comments.

 

Redskins cheerleaders > Redskins. They kept me entertained, I was doing "the jiggle test" in my mind all night.

[papazoid]

cheerleaders should be paid minimum wage.

 

hope they continue.

 

 

[Tsaikotic]

am I missing something here?/..I thought Mr. Wilson made it pretty clear that he didn't like or want cheerleaders, did he not?...I was under the assumption the Jills were totally separate from the Bills and Wilson only allowed them on the field for the fans...I assumed some other faction was responsible for paying and organizing the Jills...am I wrong??

[YoloinOhio]

am I missing something here?/..I thought Mr. Wilson made it pretty clear that he didn't like or want cheerleaders, did he not?...I was under the assumption the Jills were totally separate from the Bills and Wilson only allowed them on the field for the fans...I assumed some other faction was responsible for paying and organizing the Jills...am I wrong??

On WGR this morning they said the Jills are indeed outsourced from the Bills. However, the Bills are mentioned in the lawsuit.

[FLFan]

On WGR this morning they said the Jills are indeed outsourced from the Bills. However, the Bills are mentioned in the lawsuit.

The Bills are the primary target because they are the ones with the money and public profile, even though they do not directly control the Jills or have any control over the crap the suit alleges. How else would the lawyers get their payday?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Not including those free facials they got from the players as payment I guess? Lmao...

 

This comment truly shows your class.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Apparently the key legal issue here is whether the Jills are considered employees or independent contractors. Companies, in general, would prefer contractors, since under that arrangement they aren't held to all the requirements of employment law, including but not limited to things like minimum wage and overtime. But the company can't just arbitrarily make that decision; the law doesn't work that way.

 

https://labor.ny.gov/ui/dande/ic.shtm

 

Just skimming through those two "relationship" lists it looks like the Jills have a slam dunk case.

 

58 posts in, someone gets to the heart of the matter. You can't arbitrarily decide to pay someone as an independent contractor whilst treating them as an employee.

 

Also, it's one thing to know you will be required to make appearances, it's another thing to be required to make appearances where there is no security or crowd control to prevent unwanted groping. That's essentially requiring someone to work in a harassing environment - not OK.

[oman128]

In the world of professional sports where everybody is screaming show me the money and players turn down 100 million dollar contract because it isn't enough these girls make less than $100 the game is disgraceful.

 

If you're going to have cheerleaders, pay them a decent wage. I'm sure the same situation exists and other NFL cities across America. Personally I'd be Ok for eliminating cheerleaders altogether from professional football. Do we really need to objectify women more in American culture.

 

I mean let's face it, they get these cheerleading jobs because they got nice boobs, a firm butt and a pretty face. It's a sad commentary on society today.

 

There is no marching band like there was in high school or college in the NFL and nobody seems to miss them.

 

Keep the main thing the main thing, I for one can do without the cheerleaders.

[D521646]

Just want to go on record as saying that this thread totally sucks without pics.. Just sayin.

 

Tim-

[papazoid]

Just want to go on record as saying that this thread totally sucks without pics.. Just sayin.

 

Tim-

 

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrBTz_Q4VdTvBgA.IVXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0cTA1N3VzBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDM4NF8x?_adv_prop=image&fr=fp-tts-901&va=Buffalo+Bills+cheerleaders

[D521646]

there you go now we're takin

 

Tim-

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

They're suing because they weren't paid minimum wage. If the team didn't want to be sued, then they should have paid minimum wage or above. It's a pretty simple concept, if you want your employee to be somewhere or doing something then you pay them. You can't just hand them a $50 game check then expect them to practice and appear at events.

 

Simple eh? Can you simply demonstrate the Jills are employed by the bills? Betcha can't...

 

Look I've always wanted to be a professional lacrosse player. If I was good enough, to be a bubble scrub player would I make more than minimum wage doing it? No. Would it be right for me to play anyway knowing this because I really wanted to? Sure. Then sue after it ended? Helll no. Should I be stupid enough to think a hobby is a job? No. Should I do it anyway if I have issue with the pay, so great that I'm willing sue... Of course not.

 

So tired of moochers chasing handouts.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Forgive me, Reverend, for I have sinned.

 

Alit from your high horse, man. Professional 'cheerleaders' are nothing BUT jiggly sex! It's simply what they sell. Every woman who aspires to this, knows this coming in and still try like hell to beat out 100's of other well trimmed, sexy women for the right to 'shake their thang' on Sunday afternoons or plop their bikini-clad butts on old golfers laps. All their 'dance maneuvers' are just choreographed sex acts. They are simply a tempting, sexual sideshow to the sporting event at hand. It's obvious they have no issue with what it all entails. Only prudes atop their moral steeds from the outside do.

 

The answer is simple to me. Put a tip jar next to them at every one of their appearance events. Guys love to tip pretty, sensual women.

 

All this "high horse" and "prudes" and "jiggly sex" commentary is beside the point. Employment law in NY state requires that employees be paid minimum wage. If you:

• Choose when, where, and how an employee performs services
  
• Directly supervise the services
  
• Set the hours of work
  
• Require exclusive services (An individual cannot work for your competitors while working for you.)
  
• Require attendance at meetings and/or training sessions
  
• Reserve the right to review and approve the work product
  
• Evaluate job performance
  
• Require prior permission for absences
  
• Have the right to hire and fire
  

you have an employer-employee relationship, and it doesn't matter if you have the employee sign a contract stating that they are an independent contractor or waiving rights as an employee.

 

Based upon the information provided in the lawsuit, it's pretty clear that the Bills reserved the right to review and approve the work product, and that the Jills outsourced supervisors evaluated job performance, required attendance, chose when and where they provided services, required prior permission for absences, and directly supervised them in excrutiating detail. They fail the "independent contractor" sniff test by a long chalk, and should be paid at least minimum wage for mandatory hours.

 

And by the way, one of the complaints in the lawsuit was that at some events, there was a "tip jar" but the Jills didn't receive the money.

 

Hopeful (not a lawyer, but sheesh)

[Chandler#81]

 

 

All this "high horse" and "prudes" and "jiggly sex" commentary is beside the point. Employment law in NY state requires that employees be paid minimum wage. If you:

• Choose when, where, and how an employee performs services
  
• Directly supervise the services
  
• Set the hours of work
  
• Require exclusive services (An individual cannot work for your competitors while working for you.)
  
• Require attendance at meetings and/or training sessions
  
• Reserve the right to review and approve the work product
  
• Evaluate job performance
  
• Require prior permission for absences
  
• Have the right to hire and fire
  

you have an employer-employee relationship, and it doesn't matter if you have the employee sign a contract stating that they are an independent contractor or waiving rights as an employee.

 

Based upon the information provided in the lawsuit, it's pretty clear that the Bills reserved the right to review and approve the work product, and that the Jills outsourced supervisors evaluated job performance, required attendance, chose when and where they provided services, required prior permission for absences, and directly supervised them in excrutiating detail. They fail the "independent contractor" sniff test by a long chalk, and should be paid at least minimum wage for mandatory hours.

 

And by the way, one of the complaints in the lawsuit was that at some events, there was a "tip jar" but the Jills didn't receive the money.

 

Hopeful (not a lawyer, but sheesh)

 

I still prefer the jiggly sex to all this 'blah, blah, blah, workers rights' crap.

Here's my bottom line: Every applicant was told up front about the pay, the requirements, the testing and expectations, with the very likely last line being.. "If you don't like it, there's the door..."

 

<crickets chirping>

 

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled jiggling..

[C.Biscuit97]

Not trying to be sexism (which means I'm probably going to be), but isn't the "job" of a cheerleader to be oggled? They aren't rocket scientists. You know exactly what the job entails. These Bills lawsuits are a joke and lawyers are destroying America.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Not trying to be sexism (which means I'm probably going to be), but isn't the "job" of a cheerleader to be oggled? They aren't rocket scientists. You know exactly what the job entails. These Bills lawsuits are a joke and lawyers are destroying America.

 

Absolutely the job of a cheerleader is to be oogled. That's not what the lawsuit is about. The prurient stuff is just what the press grabs onto and puffs up (so to speak, *heh*)

 

I agree with you that there are many spurious lawsuits, from reading this one and comparing it to publically available NYS employment law I would have to respectfully disagree it's a joke or unwarranted. Have cheerleaders or don't have cheerleaders, I'm indifferent on the subject. But if you expect someone to behave as an employee, treat them in accord with the law. Or don't bother to have employment laws, and let every worker go back to dealing with their employer on a "here's the job, like it or leave" basis.

[OCinBuffalo]

Whoa! That is an insult.

Apparently you missed the . Well, now you get 2 :lol: Wanna go for three?

Look, I don't want my daughters to be Buffalo Jills,

Not so fast. I don't know your daughters, but, as I said above, cheerleading is a means to an end for many. If your daughters have the potential to be biochemists working for a pharma company, then yeah, I don't want them to be Buffalo Jills either. Waste of talent. But what if they don't have that ability? Are they just supposed to get married/die/work as servers/go on welfare/live the life of Julia?

 

Can we not come down on the girls who can't be biochemists, do have other talents, and use those other talents effectively to form a career? I don't think they deserve to be disrespected so easily. You try standing in front of a trade show booth for 4 straight hours with no breaks, trying to corral clients based on nothing more than your looks and/or trying to hook them with limited product knowledge you get in a 15 min briefing. Some can do it, others can't, and some become very good at it, which they turn into a full-time PR/Marketing or sales gig.

 

I, rightly, have little respect for some women-specific jobs, but, this is not one of them, as I've seen how hard it can be for them, first hand.

but all of those ladies are someone's daughters and we'd do well to remember this. They aren't strippers --

You're damn right they aren't. Strippers don't get to work trade show booths later on, and strippers don't get to do all the other stuff that can result from a stint as a cheerleader either. You think anyone wants their company represented by a stripper? Can you imagine the feminazi backlash/boycott? (Then again, having a strpper up front in the booth would actually be a draw for some of the industries we operate in, and the backlash would be seen by our clients in those industries as a huge +. I doubt I'd be buying my own drinks that night.) But still, nobody wants the hassle. Not when non-strippers can be put up front at relatively reasonable rates. It's just smart business, because it is: a business.

they are cheerleaders, and while that's not the world's most intellectually stimulating profession, it doesn't make them whores, nor does it mean they have automatically signed up for degrading treatment.

In my experience, people tend to get what they signed up for. If you think a "product support" girl has never been groped, you are dreaming. However, if she thinks she didn't sign up for the chance of that happening, she is also: dreaming. There's 0 tolerance for it, but, it does happen. Best way to determine if you want to do business with a prospect? See how he/she treats the girl up front. For the intelligent, there's a lot to be gained by observing the "front girl".

Hoping the Bills will do the right thing and either wash their hands of this or treat these employees right.

Now you are dreaming. This a business. It has its rules. One of those rules is, you get paid little as a cheerleader now, but you learn the business, how do to apperances, how to support the product...so that you can get paid a lot more later.

 

It's supply and demand: theres's always a new supply of hotter, younger girls every year. Therefore it's a buyers business by default. However, if you can learn the business, and get good at it, just like in any other business, the more opportunities open up for you.

 

In all cases: morality has nothing to do with this. It comes down to standard business logic. Nobody cries any tears for the girl who starts out as a Jill, but ends up as a product rep for Nike, who makes ~$200k a year...jiggling some days...but selling the F out of sneakers, and everything else, as well. Nobody cries any tears for them either, when age/pregnancy takes its toll, and it's time to move on. The smarter/more centered ones plan accordingly. The dumber ones get what the dumber ones deserve.

 

Are we supposed to cry for all of the poorly paid actresses, who are alway one rent check away taking their clothes off in a bad movie, who later command millions per movie? No. That's the business they singed up to be in, and that's how that business works. Like any other business, those who treat their people the best, and innovate to treat their customers the best, usually rise, while the others fall..

am I missing something here?/..I thought Mr. Wilson made it pretty clear that he didn't like or want cheerleaders, did he not?...I was under the assumption the Jills were totally separate from the Bills and Wilson only allowed them on the field for the fans...I assumed some other faction was responsible for paying and organizing the Jills...am I wrong??

WGR owned the Jills for quite some time. I'm not sure who owns them now.

Just want to go on record as saying that this thread totally sucks without pics.. Just sayin.

 

Tim-

Hey, WTF? I posted pics above, and just like the girls who are pictured, they are tasteful.

Not trying to be sexism (which means I'm probably going to be), but isn't the "job" of a cheerleader to be oggled? They aren't rocket scientists. You know exactly what the job entails. These Bills lawsuits are a joke and lawyers are destroying America.

They are paid to be oggled, just like they will be oggled in the future jobs that they can get, if they learn how to do the job properly.

 

Those that don't possess the smarts/guts/whatever is required to be good at the business of product support...must seek life elsewhere.

 

Apparently that life elsewhere includes suing, for some of the girls who haven't moved on to better things.

[Luxy312]

I'm truly divided on this subject and mostly based on the full disclosure of the facts and circumstances. If the expectations were laid out up front with these ladies and the rules set (in terms of "weighing in", attending practice, etc.), then they got exactly what was offered to them. Is it a great paying job? Of course not, but what service are you really providing that someone thinks is adding value to the organization? Having or not having cheerleaders adds no measurable value to the team. I could honestly take it or leave it as it pertains to them, mascots, etc. On the flip side, if there was any lack of disclosure what so ever, any hint of subterfuge by the Bills organization, then they should be paid for their time. Give or take the cheerleaders, this type of stuff is going on in the business world as well. Time Warner cable installers are suing in several states because the company took the position that their work day starts when they get to their first job and ends when they leave it. Their biggest gripe (and rightfully so) is that the first and last jobs could be an hour or more away from their home, versus some others that may be minutes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Simple eh? Can you simply demonstrate the Jills are employed by the bills? Betcha can't...

 

Look I've always wanted to be a professional lacrosse player. If I was good enough, to be a bubble scrub player would I make more than minimum wage doing it? No. Would it be right for me to play anyway knowing this because I really wanted to? Sure. Then sue after it ended? Helll no. Should I be stupid enough to think a hobby is a job? No. Should I do it anyway if I have issue with the pay, so great that I'm willing sue... Of course not.

 

So tired of moochers chasing handouts.

 

I think the connection with the Bills is that they subcontract the Jills enterprise and exercise control over the "product" presented....so they may not be direct employers, but they have a legal obligation to ensure that their contractor follows applicable employment law.

 

The Lacrosse example is an interesting one, and raises a point that goes beyond my knowledge of employment law. Morally, to me, the difference is that lacrosse is not a lucrative, revenue-earning sport....you would be on a level field with everyone else involved, being paid a pittance for the right to pursue your dream. The Jills, on the other hand, apparently have good revenue - they make lucrative appearance fees and even "tip jars" that the Jills themselves apparently didn't see. Sort of the same situation as an employee who chooses to work for a start-up company and take lower pay and longer hours in the hopes of a payoff if the company makes it - but when the company does make it, employees are excluded from benefiting from the hours they put in and don't even make minimum wage, though the funding to pay them legally at a minimum wage rate exists.