Mr. WEO Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Apples and Oranges. The Jills worked EXCLUSIVELY for the Buffalo Bills. The home contractor, and his employees, can go work for anyone. The Jills could NOT even go do modeling/acting work (Out of their Jills uniform) without written approval from Stejon AND the Buffalo Bills, so their economic viability was definitely affected. The Jills, by their presence at special events & appearances AT OTHER LOCATIONS than RWS, brought in additional revenue to Stejon, and presumably, to the Buffalo Bills. Of course, when the contractor is not at your home, but off on other projects, you don't get anything. And for your scenario above, I'd bet that you'd have a real hard time finding a contractor to work under such restrictions (no music, no shorts, and "work exclusively on my home 'til it's finished."). If the contractor agreed in contract to all of your demands as I described him, he would be on site until finished. But the point is that you and others claim that by dictating the terms of the contract, the Bills are acting as "the employer". Nothing in those contracts those women signed prevents them from generating income in other jobs that don't require dancing around or standing and smiling. I'm not sure why you are pretending that these women were living solely off of cheerleading money. It's clear they were not. As for my scenario, I would certainly offer my contractor an "exclusive" compensation to match my demand for working exclusively on my site, but that's beside the point. If he showed up every day at my project and got it done on time and on budget, I would never know if he was also doing other jobs simultaneously---just as the Bills and Stojen would never know if one of the Jills was in Poughkipsie getting paid to smile at the local Toyota dealership for a day. These plaintiffs have no legal issue with the restrcitive contract. It's better pay they want. The rest is dirty laudry. Edited April 28, 2014 by Mr. WEO
TheLynchTrain Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Are you 12? A woman's menstrual cycle may be icky to you, but to adults it's just a part of life. What is it about this that so offends you? I'm not 12 and neither are these women that are cheerleaders. Why are they treating them as such? It's just a part of life but it's also none of an employer's business? Exactly.
Rob's House Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Can I challenge someone here to make some posters and put them up in the men's room at their workplace? Preferably a supervisor? We've got to make something good out of this... do it for (social) science. If I was part of a semi-pro football team, and our player materials included instructions on how to avoid and treat fungal infections like jock itch I don't think I'd give a **** and I'm pretty sure I'd make fun of anyone who was offended by it.
RuntheDamnBall Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 If I was part of a semi-pro football team, and our player materials included instructions on how to avoid and treat fungal infections like jock itch I don't think I'd give a **** and I'm pretty sure I'd make fun of anyone who was offended by it. Fair enough, and I mean that (I'd joke about it and make fun of anyone offended, too, presuming I knew them well enough, but that's male locker room culture). The crux of the issue here is whether the Jills are more like a semi-pro football team or like a traditional employer, which is what the court case will resolve.
CodeMonkey Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 I think they just did. Cheerleaders are history and this story will fall out of the news cycle within another day or two. The settlement will be done quietly several weeks or months from now. Could be. But apparently they were on "The Today Show" (nationally televised talk show) this morning so it might take more than a couple days now.
Rob's House Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Fair enough, and I mean that (I'd joke about it and make fun of anyone offended, too, presuming I knew them well enough, but that's male locker room culture). The crux of the issue here is whether the Jills are more like a semi-pro football team or like a traditional employer, which is what the court case will resolve. It sounds like they weren't an employer at all and more like a volunteer dance squad, but I'll wait to learn more about the internal dynamics of the operation before going any further down that road.
Utah John Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 There's an expression that there's no such thing as bad publicity. I think that expression might need to be retired.
CodeMonkey Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 This apparently is the entire Jills document. http://www.scribd.com/doc/220066268/Jills-Glamour-Etiquette-Hygiene-Rules
zow2 Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 This apparently is the entire Jills document. http://www.scribd.co...e-Hygiene-Rules My initial reaction: gosh its tough to be a pretty young woman! holy cow, Dudes Glamour requirements: Shower, Shave, brush teeth, wear deodorant. done.
Direhard Fan Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Breaking News The Cleveland Browns just hired all the Jill's. First our "D" coach and now this. What is the world coming to. Not fair.
The Wiz Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) This apparently is the entire Jills document. http://www.scribd.co...e-Hygiene-Rules I'm not a woman but know enough from my wife that the hygiene rules are pretty much standard feminine hygiene. The glamour requirements fall under "dress-code" in my opinion. Edited April 28, 2014 by The Wiz
Trader Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Wait, so you would tell your female employee this? "12. When menstruating, use a product that right for your menstrual flow. A tampon too big can irritate and develop fungus. A product left in too long can cause bacteria or fungus build up. Products can be changed at least every 4 hours. Except when sleeping, they can be left in for the night." Let me know how that goes. This is the age of the telephoto lens and the internet. How long do you think it would take a "menstrual accident" involving an NFL cheerleader to hit the world wide web? The hypocrites at deadspin would be the first out with the ultra close ups.
KD in CA Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Wait, so you would tell your female employee this? "12. When menstruating, use a product that right for your menstrual flow. A tampon too big can irritate and develop fungus. A product left in too long can cause bacteria or fungus build up. Products can be changed at least every 4 hours. Except when sleeping, they can be left in for the night." Let me know how that goes. If I was hiring them to be public sex objects on television? Absolutely. Unless that's your business, your attempt to compare this to making such comments to office workers or the like is disingenuous at best. This is the age of the telephoto lens and the internet. How long do you think it would take a "menstrual accident" involving an NFL cheerleader to hit the world wide web? The hypocrites at deadspin would be the first out with the ultra close ups. Bingo. The tampon nonsense is just more b.s. leaked by the lawyer to add some 'shock' to the story.
bbb Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 My initial reaction: gosh its tough to be a pretty young woman! holy cow, Dudes Glamour requirements: Shower, Shave, brush teeth, wear deodorant. done. No ****. I have no idea what some of those things are - hot rollers, French style manicure, ringlets etc.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 That was the problem in Cal with the Raiders. Yes they signed a contract, but the contract was argued to be illegal. A federal court ruled in favor of the Raiders, but Cal apparently has very strict state labor laws and the argument was this contact broke state laws.Likely NY has some pretty strict state laws too. If they have to rely on State laws, likely cheerleaders for teams like the Falcons, Titans, and Saints are out of luck. According to the article in the case of the Raiders, they were considered employees, not contractors. That was also the jist of the article, this could likely mean the end of cheerleaders for the NFL. Gotcha, thank you. So why not pay cheerleaders min. wage? And just have them wear skimpy clothes and run around and do jumping jacks at time outs and such? I mean you would only have to pay them for like 3 hours every sunday. No need to practice or anything. my point is for so long cheerleading at the professional level has tried to hide what it realy is, a showcase of good looking women to distract men at time outs and half time. There is no competition like at the lower levels. So just be honest, guys don't care that you kicked your leg at the same time as the other 20+ something women. Heck most guys are focused on one or two cheerleaders at most.
Garion Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) I'm not a woman but know enough from my wife that the hygiene rules are pretty much standard feminine hygiene. The glamour requirements fall under "dress-code" in my opinion. Agreed it's not that shocking and it's definitely not written by a man to tell a woman what to do it's written by an older woman trying to keep her younger team members o out of trouble. Doesn't make jiggle tests less demeaning or mean they shouldn't get paid but seriously have you watched that Dallas cowboy's cheerleader try out show? Their manual has to be twice the size of the Jill's. Edited April 29, 2014 by gjnoronh
The Wiz Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Agreed it's not that shocking and it's definitely not written by a man to tell a woman what to do it's written by an older woman trying to keep her younger team members o out of trouble. Doesn't make jiggle tests less demeaning or mean they shouldn't get paid but seriously have you watched that Dallas cowboy's cheerleader try out show? Their manual has to be twice the size of the Jill's. I'm sure their manual mandates that they weigh less than 100 lbs and 40 of that has to be in their chest. I've know 3 Jills. Two I went to high school with and the other was the head cheerleader back in 2000. Never really got the vibe from the head cheerleader and the other 2 never complained about the job. Edited April 29, 2014 by The Wiz
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 its a glamor job w/little pay and men ogling them when they shake their pom poms and dream of a wardrobe malfunction on a high kick. IF they don't know that going in they are clueless or stupid
sodbuster Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 The Bills should turn it into a completely volunteer unpaid position. Since they're all interns, I support the idea of cramming them the Monicas.
SoulMan Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 This is BAD. OBD needs to make this right and quick.
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