Unstoppable CJ

[Mr. WEO]

Now that SJ is gone, let's run the next talented Bill out of town! Clearly, rbs that average 4.6 ypc SUCK. That's pretty obivous. Against the Browns, he averaged 8.3 ypc and only had 8 carries. His last carry was 54 yard td. I'm sure the fact he was battling an ankle injury didn't hold him back at all. Running backs don't need their stupid ankles.

 

Add to that the list of pro bowl QBs the Bills have had (Edwards, Fitz, 3 1st year QBs last year) since CJ has been here, and there should be wide open lanes all over the place. Why would defenses try to stack the line when they have such an explosive passing game to worry about?

 

Only in Bills fans do we knock a guy who had more yards and a higer ypc and praise the guy with less. Guess what? We have 2 good rbs. Fred Jackson gets short yardage carries, so he gets more tds. Spiller is about as explosive of a rb in the NFL. Yet, he sucks. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

 

 

 

http://www.footballo...en-tackles-2012

 

Your reference is for broken tackles, which was covered in the OP article. I'm looking for carries for a loss or little gain.

[mrags]

 

 

I heard this quote last year. Many times actually.

my guess is you'll keep hearing it as people like to hope and make excuses.

[Dibs]

Spiller certainly has his flaws......which I guess to some people means that he sucks.

 

He doesn't have the best vision, he is not as durable as one would like, he has a higher than average tackle for loss than most RBs, & he is no good in short yardage situations.......but......he is one of the most electrifying runners that I have ever seen. With a healthy passing game, some solid blocking, and healthy ankles, he should be very productive this year.

 

I agree with the whole consistency issue. It harkens back to loving to watch Barry Sanders but prefering to have a Thurman or Emmit as your RB. Things are different now however. Not many teams rely on one RB to get the job done anymore.

 

I personally am hoping he excels brilliantly in a support role. It will keep his contract numbers down so we could then afford to keep such a valuable weapon on the team in future years.

 

And for the record.....for those that claim he was only productive in one year..... In his 2nd season he was a backup to FJ who was having an all-pro year until FJ got injured. Spiller started the last 6 games, racking up 446 yards on 86 carries(5.2ypa) & had 24 receptions for 187 yards in those 6 games. He followed that up with his 1244 rushing yards(6.0ypa) in his 3rd season(2012). Even his 933 yards(4.6ypa) last year was pretty good IMO considering the afore mentioned hinderences.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Dibs

[Billy in 4C]

I heard this quote last year. Many times actually.

 

He had 927 last year averaging 4.6 ypc. Pretty good considering he ran on a sprained ankle all year. His stats in 2012 are reflective of his production when healthy.

[Section242]

i have no idea what that link was for. I'm in my phone so of there's something different than on a desktop I have no idea. But It doesn't make sense to me.

 

If you think he can consistently be a 1,700 yard back then I'll ask for how long do you think he can be that? Even in his younger years he's showing he gets banged up every season. What do you thinks gonna happen when he's older and has more tread on the tires? He's not long for this league at his rate of injury.

 

Your Jets fan friends think the Bills are a joke??? Hahaha. That says it all right there.

 

He's missed three games in his career.

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

He's missed three games in his career.

 

He's on a roll. Let him run. Hahaha

 

Doubting the injury is a money move.

[Dibs]

He's missed three games in his career.

 

I don't think that that is truly indicative of his durability. He has had several more games where he has come out of the games with injury, and a lot more where he has played through injury thus limiting his productivity and usefulness to the team(ala 2013).

[mrags]

Spiller certainly has his flaws......which I guess to some people, that means that he sucks.

 

He doesn't have the best vision, he is not as durable as one would like, he has a higher than average tackle for loss than most RBs, & he is no good in short yardage situations.......but......he is one of the most electrifying runners that I have ever seen. With a healthy passing game, some solid blocking, and healthy ankles, he should be very productive this year.

 

I agree with the whole consistency issue. It harkens back to loving to watch Barry Sanders but prefering to have a Thurman or Emmit as your RB. Things are different now however. Not many teams rely on one RB to get the job done anymore.

 

I personally am hoping he excels brilliantly in a support role. It will keep his contract numbers down so we could then afford to keep such a valuable weapon on the team in future years.

 

And for the record.....for those that claim he was only productive in one year..... In his 2nd season he was a backup to FJ who was having an all-pro year until FJ got injured. Spiller started the last 6 games, racking up 446 yards on 86 carries(5.2ypa) & had 24 receptions for 187 yards in those 6 games. He followed that up with his 1244 rushing yards(6.0ypa) in his 3rd season(2012). Even his 933 yards(4.6ypa) last year was pretty good IMO considering the afore mentioned hinderences.

maybe I'm a bit overexagerrating when I say "he sucks". My words. Not yours. But at the end of the day he's a disappointment for a top 10 pick. And the fact is everyone swings from his jock like he's the next coming of Walter Payton. He's not. He's average in today's NFL. That's not saying a lot.

 

His vision is terrible, He pulls up at times. Being caught for a loss and terrible in short yard situations is not only am understatement, it's a tragedy. That's what RBs are there for. They aren't relied on to get you 12 yards each play. That's why the league has WRs. What he's supposed to be good at, he is inconsistent.

 

I personally hope he tears it up too. If he plays out of this world and stays healthy, chances are we make the playoffs. But don't think for a second that even if he has a mediocre season of 1,000 yards, he will sign for any small amount. He's going to make a killing when he becomes a free agent and I hope were not stupid enough to pay that for a guy that's not only inconsistent but incredibly injury prone. He's only been injured every single single season in the NFL. So I'm sure even if he has one healthy year he'll be fine.

 

 

for the record, his 446 yards over 6 weeks is only about 75 yards a game. Barely respectable in the NFL RB world. Think of how many games in the season you remember RBs being dominating and taking over a game with 75 yards. It doesn't happen. Regardless, 1,000 yards is nothing special in the NFL. Especially when your only getting 2 TDs with it. Heck, even 1,200 yards isn't anything special when your looking at others in the league putting up 1,500+ and in MVP conversations.

 

What's funny is that with 2 different HCs and multiple different offensive schemes, the one thing that's constant is that CJ is inconsistent and injured. Why is it that 2 NFL coaches/coordinators have said they are going to feed Spiller then when the times comes he can't handle the load? "Were going to run CJ until he throws up" and "he gets winded" should not be thrown out. 2 coaches now can't seem to make this work on a regular basis.

[FireChan]

He's missed three games in his career.

 

How many games has he had 10 carries or less? A lot.

 

He had 927 last year averaging 4.6 ypc. Pretty good considering he ran on a sprained ankle all year. His stats in 2012 are reflective of his production when healthy.

 

That's pretty good. Lesean McCoy almost doubled that. I can't believe McCoy almost doubled "the next Barry Sanders."

 

How many TD's did CJ have? How many blocks did he miss?

 

CJ better hit his Hall of Fame stride quick, he's only got a couple more years.

Edited June 23, 2014 by FireChan

[Billy in 4C]

How many games has he had 10 carries or less? A lot.

 

 

 

That's pretty good. Lesean McCoy almost doubled that. I can't believe McCoy almost doubled "the next Barry Sanders."

 

How many TD's did CJ have? How many blocks did he miss?

 

CJ better hit his Hall of Fame stride quick, he's only got a couple more years.

 

McCoy is sick - probably the best RB in the league right now. But look at his 2012 stats - looks pretty close to CJ in 2013. I'm not saying give him McCoy money, but don't wait until CJ puts up another 2012 campaign.

[Bufcomments]

I agree. I think they need to give him the ball more, just not up the middle.He's the kind of back who the defense can stop a few times in a row but then the next time he'll break one to to outside for 70 yards. Last year we didn't have much of a passing game to make the defense not load up the box and he was also hurt most of the year. If the defense can start having to worry about the short and long passing game, CJ will be able to bounce some big gains and in the open field very few players in the NFL can catch him. As always, everything depends on EJ.

Lots of people miss this. Teams were loading the box last year when he was in the game. They seems like they knew he was getting the ball based on our sets.

Hopefully Watkins, Woods and Goodwin can get them out of that box. But like you said it depends on EJ if he can make teams respect the passing game.

 

Would like to see C.J. return some punts in some situations.

[FireChan]

maybe I'm a bit overexagerrating when I say "he sucks". My words. Not yours. But at the end of the day he's a disappointment for a top 10 pick. And the fact is everyone swings from his jock like he's the next coming of Walter Payton. He's not. He's average in today's NFL. That's not saying a lot.

 

His vision is terrible, He pulls up at times. Being caught for a loss and terrible in short yard situations is not only am understatement, it's a tragedy. That's what RBs are there for. They aren't relied on to get you 12 yards each play. That's why the league has WRs. What he's supposed to be good at, he is inconsistent.

 

I personally hope he tears it up too. If he plays out of this world and stays healthy, chances are we make the playoffs. But don't think for a second that even if he has a mediocre season of 1,000 yards, he will sign for any small amount. He's going to make a killing when he becomes a free agent and I hope were not stupid enough to pay that for a guy that's not only inconsistent but incredibly injury prone. He's only been injured every single single season in the NFL. So I'm sure even if he has one healthy year he'll be fine.

 

 

for the record, his 446 yards over 6 weeks is only about 75 yards a game. Barely respectable in the NFL RB world. Think of how many games in the season you remember RBs being dominating and taking over a game with 75 yards. It doesn't happen. Regardless, 1,000 yards is nothing special in the NFL. Especially when your only getting 2 TDs with it. Heck, even 1,200 yards isn't anything special when your looking at others in the league putting up 1,500+ and in MVP conversations.

 

What's funny is that with 2 different HCs and multiple different offensive schemes, the one thing that's constant is that CJ is inconsistent and injured. Why is it that 2 NFL coaches/coordinators have said they are going to feed Spiller then when the times comes he can't handle the load? "Were going to run CJ until he throws up" and "he gets winded" should not be thrown out. 2 coaches now can't seem to make this work on a regular basis.

 

If you want to know the difference between CJ and the top 15 RB's in the league, look no further than the first down stat. The top ten are McCoy, Forte, Charles, Lynch, Lacy, AP, Morris, Gore, Murray and woah? Fred Jackson coming in hot at #10.

 

Where's Spiller? Oh he's back at #45, getting beat out by Terelle Pryor, Steven Jackson, Danny Woodhead. And he's two first downs in front of those other fantastic RB's, like RG3, Andrew Luck, Alex Smith, Bobby Rainey? Fun fact, Spill's had either almost double, or almost triple the amount of attempts of anyone around him in this list, yet was right there in terms of FD conversions (except for Steven Jackson). Conclusion? Spiller sucks at keeping drives alive, perhaps the most important thing an RB can do besides score TD's.

 

McCoy is sick - probably the best RB in the league right now. But look at his 2012 stats - looks pretty close to CJ in 2013. I'm not saying give him McCoy money, but don't wait until CJ puts up another 2012 campaign.

 

McCoy played 12 games that year, not 15.

 

McCoy, with 12 games in 2012, doubled Spiller's FD stat in 15 games in 2013. On almost the same number of attempts. The players aren't even close.

 

Bryce Brown in 2012, on 115 attempts, had more first downs than 2013 Spiller. Fred Jackson in 2012, on 115 attempts, had 1 less first down than 2013 Spiller. This is the one stat that exemplifies his weakness as a player.

Edited June 23, 2014 by FireChan

[mrags]

 

 

If you want to know the difference between CJ and the top 15 RB's in the league, look no further than the first down stat. The top ten are McCoy, Forte, Charles, Lynch, Lacy, AP, Morris, Gore, Murray and woah? Fred Jackson coming in hot at #10.

 

Where's Spiller? Oh he's back at #45, getting beat out by Terelle Pryor, Steven Jackson, Danny Woodhead. And he's two first downs in front of those other fantastic RB's, like RG3, Andrew Luck, Alex Smith, Bobby Rainey? Fun fact, Spill's had either almost double, or almost triple the amount of attempts of anyone around him in this list, yet was right there in terms of FD conversions (except for Steven Jackson). Conclusion? Spiller sucks at keeping drives alive, perhaps the most important thing an RB can do besides score TD's.

 

 

 

McCoy played 12 games that year, not 15.

uiur making reasonable arguments like I am here. It's not allowed. The CJ jock swingers don't like it.

[Braedenstearns]

and what if he has another sub 1,000 yard season. Or what if he has another season where he is riddled with injuries? Would you really want to lock him up long term then?

 

If thats the case Then let's cut Gilmore, mcklelvin, Spiller, Mario! They could all get injured...why take the chance of injury and, taking up a roster spot? That's nonsense!

You lock him up because he's elite! Now I know

you don't agree, but someone with his ability to make something out of nothing is great to me!

I would rather keep Spiller and know we have a great running back! Then hoping Fred doesn't get hurt! Like he has for the past 3 or 4 seasons...

I know you don't agree, but don't get offended!

[What a Tuel]

Am I hearing this right? Unfortunately Jackson is nearing his end (Hopefully hes got another 10 years ). And we think we are better off with Brown and Dixon rather than Spiller? Simmer down people.

 

I seem to remember Philadelphia having 4000+ yard 30+ TD passing game last year that may have helped McCoy out a little. (That's not downplaying McCoy's skill). That compared to 3000+ yard 16 TD passing game for the Bills.

 

Having a downfield threat will help the running game just a little bit.

Edited June 23, 2014 by What a Tuel

[Billy in 4C]

If you want to know the difference between CJ and the top 15 RB's in the league, look no further than the first down stat. The top ten are McCoy, Forte, Charles, Lynch, Lacy, AP, Morris, Gore, Murray and woah? Fred Jackson coming in hot at #10.

 

Where's Spiller? Oh he's back at #45, getting beat out by Terelle Pryor, Steven Jackson, Danny Woodhead. And he's two first downs in front of those other fantastic RB's, like RG3, Andrew Luck, Alex Smith, Bobby Rainey? Fun fact, Spill's had either almost double, or almost triple the amount of attempts of anyone around him in this list, yet was right there in terms of FD conversions (except for Steven Jackson). Conclusion? Spiller sucks at keeping drives alive, perhaps the most important thing an RB can do besides score TD's.

 

 

 

McCoy played 12 games that year, not 15.

 

McCoy, with 12 games in 2012, doubled Spiller's FD stat in 15 games in 2013. On almost the same number of attempts. The players aren't even close.

 

Bryce Brown in 2012, on 115 attempts, had more first downs than 2013 Spiller. Fred Jackson in 2012, on 115 attempts, had 1 less first down than 2013 Spiller. This is the one stat that exemplifies his weakness as a player.

 

I understand the "cool" thing is for everyone to hate on CJ, which everyone does on and off the board. I disagree - I think he's one of our best players. I don't think CJ is the issue - if we had McCoy or Peterson, we'd still be in the same spot.

 

At this point, what would you like the team to do? Let him go at year end? Ride 33 year old Fred Jackson for a couple more years? Draft another RB?

[FireChan]

Am I hearing this right? Unfortunately Jackson is nearing his end (Hopefully hes got another 10 years ). And we think we are better off with Brown and Dixon rather than Spiller? Simmer down people.

 

I seem to remember Philadelphia having 4000+ yard 30+ TD passing game last year that may have helped McCoy out a little. (That's not downplaying McCoy's skill). That compared to 3000+ yard 16 TD passing game for the Bills.

 

Having a downfield threat will help the running game just a little bit.

 

We didn't have good passing attack in Spiller's miracle year. That's a weak argument.

 

I understand the "cool" thing is for everyone to hate on CJ, which everyone does on and off the board. I disagree - I think he's one of our best players. I don't think CJ is the issue - if we had McCoy or Peterson, we'd still be in the same spot.

 

At this point, what would you like the team to do? Let him go at year end? Ride 33 year old Fred Jackson for a couple more years? Draft another RB?

 

First of all, I'm not following a "trend" here. I've been realistic when it comes to Spiller, even after his fantastic 2012, just check my posting history.

 

I like CJ on this team as a #2 guy. Best case scenario, Freddy produces for a few years, CJ gets signed to a reasonable deal, and Bryce Brown becomes our #1 with CJ staying in his CJ role.

 

Now, the only reason I'm "hating" on CJ is because for 2 years I've heard future Hall of Famer. I've heard Gayle references, Barry Sanders references, Walter Payton references. I've argued with them all. It's unrealistic and I disagree he will ever be that good after 5 years in the NFL. That's why I'm throwing stats up and making points. I'm arguing that CJ isn't a once in a generation back, even though everyone treats him like gold. Even you're doing it. "One of our best players?" For one good year in a 5 year career? As a top 10 pick? Playing the easiest position to transition to the Pro's?

Edited June 23, 2014 by FireChan

[SRQ_BillsFan]

Is anyone unstoppable?

 

Have you ever watched AP? He gets caught a lot behind the line and has plenty of short 1-3 yard caries. And AP is a feature back. But plays with no passing game as well, or a poor substitute for one.

 

CJ has great vision, the problem is that he doesn't trust his line.

Edited June 23, 2014 by SRQ_BillsFan

[mrags]

 

 

We didn't have good passing attack in Spiller's miracle year. That's a weak argument.

 

 

 

First of all, I'm not following a "trend" here. I've been realistic when it comes to Spiller, even after his fantastic 2012, just check my posting history.

 

I like CJ on this team as a #2 guy. Best case scenario, Freddy produces for a few years, CJ gets signed to a reasonable deal, and Bryce Brown becomes our #1 with CJ staying in his CJ role.

 

Now, the only reason I'm "hating" on CJ is because for 2 years I've heard future Hall of Famer. I've heard Gayle references, Barry Sanders references, Walter Payton references. I've argued with them all. It's unrealistic and I disagree he will ever be that good after 5 years in the NFL. That's why I'm throwing stats up and making points. I'm arguing that CJ isn't a once in a generation back, even though everyone treats him like gold. Even you're doing it. "One of our best players?" For one good year in a 5 year career? As a top 10 pick? Playing the easiest position to transition to the Pro's?

thatsy argument as well. I just overexagerrate it. Just like how people overexagerrate CJs importance, and ability.

[Mark Vader]

He's hard to bring down, or to even touch, once he hits the second level. The focus needs to be on getting him there, and helping him learn how to find it with more frequency.

 

CJ strikes me as a guy who needs encouragement, not a coach barking in his ear. It seems like getting on him for what he can't do, or isn't doing, isn't really working.

Exactly.

 

I don't believe Spiller is unstoppable, he isn't. But he is a dynamic player.

 

His inconsistency is troubling and frustrating. However, Hackett's play calling was also frustrating.

 

How many times did we see the "read option" called last year? And how many times did it result in handing the ball off to Spiller to have him run up the middle?

 

Far too many times. The defense constantly stacked the box. They knew Manuel wasn't going to keep the ball and run with it. Spiller is not a bruising, short-yardage back. What made Marrone & Hackett ever think he was?

 

I'm not giving up on Spiller. I still think he can be a very dangerous player for us. I just hope that Hackett has learned from his mistakes as well.