zazie Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Hopefully they have looked at the tape and recognized the folly of this approach, at least in stcking to it through every condition. I think Shwartz maybe will point it out to them as well.
Speedy G Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 While hurrying up has positives and negatives, what everyone needs to realize is that if they can do it at a fast pace, then they can do it at a slow pace! Their bread and butter seems to be face paced, obviously! With Hoestler on staff now and the playoffs or bust mentality, game planing and in game situations will dictate when to slow it down. i.e. to eat up clock, or change personnel, etc... Let's wait and see if Hackett has learned from experience before we roast him on a skewer! I know there's uncertainty, but come on man, relax and stay positive! Hard work pays off, and these guys have been workin their A$$ off, so it's just a waiting game until we see amazing results. Anyone that says I'm just drinking the koolaid, has no clue of what it takes to build a championship caliber team! There's quality depth at every position now so there shouldn't be a drop off if anyone goes down. It's all about one thing...WINNING! I see it heading in that direction. We've been waiting so long now, we are so ready for prime time! The table is set, the NFL won't know what hit them...bring it on!! #GoBills #ThisIsOurTime
Hazed and Amuzed Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 I may be wrong, but as last season progressed didn't the Bills slow it down and eat up some clock when they had a lead? I seem to remember thinking that they had somewhat learned to change the pace when having to.
Buffaloed in Pa Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Everything. Seems a little flighty to me. This year will tell all. Produce or new owner says bye to you and E.J.
Big Blitz Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Hackett IMO is just as big a question mark as EJ is right now. I don't understand the obsession he and Marrone have with being a fast paced offense when they also clearly want to be a running team as those two philosophies tend to contradict each other. I would love to see them be more like the 49ers and less like the Pats and Broncos. Quality over quantity especially with a young team. Yup. Anyone with half a brain can see we're offensively closer to the 49ers and Seattle than Phily or even Denver. I hate the go fast all the time mantra. Pettine was right in that interview he gave...the defense can settle in and adjust. At least mix it up. Our QB is still raw....we have a young WR core. A new Oline. Hackett is the one guy I'm most concerned with on this team. Even more than EJ. Worrying that he's in over his head but hope I'm wrong. Edited June 22, 2014 by Big Blitz
bigK14094 Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Pettine's comments on this are telling, after his year in Buffalo especially. Pettine:" Its easier to prepare for a team that is all hurry up, or all slow....than it is to prepare for a team that does both" Seems to me that is a shot at the Marrone/Hackett Offensive stragedy....and sounds legit to me. Hence, I think that Marrone and Hackett are destined to have probems until they adapt to the fast/slow paradyme...........We certainly didn't see anything strong about the approach last year. Wondering why they think this will work.......one trick ponies can be dealt with....multiple move folks are tougher to plan to defend. thanks to Pettine for that comment...wish he had made that point stick when he was here.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 I swear that I have seen 3 or 4 "what worries me about Hackett" threads this offseason. A lot of people are getting ulcers over this guy.
Cynical Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Not sure what all of this "worrying" is going to accomplish. Clearly, the goal of Marrone and Hackett is to score a lot of points and win football games. Nothing I've heard, seen, or read about either of them suggests to me they are morons, They don't have to be morons. All they have to be is stubborn. or that they want to establish a methodology for the Bills that will cost them football games. But that's just me. Last year is a wash; rookie QB injured, WRs injured, etc. Even so, they started out 2-2 with wins against Carolina and Baltimore (and nearly beat the Pats*) playing the "fast paced" style. I have no idea what Patriot game you watched last year, but the one I watched, that "fast paced" offense could barely get out of it's own way. The Bills scored 3 TD that game, one by the Bills defense. And speaking of those 4 first games, the Bills scored 21, 24, 20 and 23 points for an average of 22 points a game. Not exactly a "high powered" scoring machine.
Kellyto83TD Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 I'm sure Hackett works as hard as anyone, and that his wealth of knowledge and passion will be valuable assets to the Bills O this year. What I don't like though is the go, go, go as fast as you can strategy that he insists on (he has explicitly stated this as his philosophy in multiple interviews). Perfect example of its downside: going into the 4th against the pats opening day last year with a lead (if my memory serves me correctly), they ran the hurry up and had back-to-back 3 and outs. This of course gave Brady more opportunities to save the day, which he predictably did. This tone-deaf attitude is too simplistic in the pros: I really think you have to adjust according your team's performance at the time, as well as the opponent's performance and the overall rhythm of the game. Pettine actually mentioned this in one of his recent interviews. I mean, even Manning and Brady have quiet games from time to time, so how do we expect Manuel to run the hurry-up without slumps and periods of ineffectiveness? The stacked backfield can compensate for a streaky pass game, but to me, keeping the offense in 5th gear at all times is disconcerting. Thoughts? Thoughts? He was handcuffed with crap at QB. NO OC can succeed with that. EJ can't read defenses quickly and even in mini camp has shown the same thing. He is still misfiring on the deep balls which will kill us. Why get Watkins and Goodwin when the QB you have can't get them the ball? Everyone wants to bash the OC when QB was and is still the main issue.
thewildrabbit Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 I understand the concept of the hurry up offense to keep the opposing defense from making substitutions and trying to keep them on their heels. While wearing the same defensive players out during a game. However, the Bills were one of the worst teams in the NFL in offensive efficiency because they couldn't maintain drives. They were 25th in three downs and out, 29th in 3rd down efficiency, and 31st in first down stats 301 first downs, 1116 plays, 27%. There were a lot of things contributing to such a bad state of ball control all season, sub par O line, suspect QB play from three rookies, a rookie play caller. This along with a mostly rookie offensive coaching staff, no QB coach at all. No veteran QB on the roster for leadership. The Bills had the #2 rushing team in the NFL in total yards, and yet didn't win many games. This year with more seasoned QB's the OC can open up the playbook more. The O line looks to be upgraded with some solid additions in the draft, and players returning from IR. But yeah, to the OP point. Ex Bills DC Mike Pettine stated that the best way for an offense to fool the defense is to change up the tempo of the offense so the defense can never get accustomed to exactly what the offense will do from series to series, play to play. Pettine also mentioned that the Patriots offense is a perfect example of this change up offense, and defenses never know what they are going to get from series to series. I suspect that Hackett will have this year to prove himself as a competent play caller because I'd guess new ownership isn't going to tolerate another losing season from this staff.
SmokinES3 Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Thoughts? He was handcuffed with crap at QB. NO OC can succeed with that. EJ can't read defenses quickly and even in mini camp has shown the same thing. He is still misfiring on the deep balls which will kill us. Why get Watkins and Goodwin when the QB you have can't get them the ball? Everyone wants to bash the OC when QB was and is still the main issue. True, though the OC has nothing but glowing things to say in the media about EJ. I'm not suggesting throwing him under the bus, but he doesn't have to make it out like EJ looks great and is progressing wonderfully when he isn't.
The Big Cat Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 A lot of experts here taking stock in things said before training camp. I'm sure their response would be just as spirited if the news was how awesome EJ was looking.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Hackett never had a chance last year. His veteran QB starter went down before the season started. His rookie QB missed half of training camp, and got hurt three times. His last second journeyman QB got hurt awhile. He was forced to play a raw undrafted rookie free agent QB who sucked in college, his TWO running backs got hurt early, one who was hurt most of the year, his top WR was playing hurt the whole year, his deep threat got hurt after a couple games, a couple other WR got hurt and a few linemen got hurt. Oh, and this was his first year on the job and his head coach was new and the system was new. There is no OC anywhere with any system that could have succeeded at all under those circumstances. I'm not saying he is great or even good. This year should tell us something about him. Oh, and he slowed the entire offense drastically over the year. They still ran the no huddle but it was not really helter skelter with Thad or Tuel unless they got a first down and then tried to push it quicker to gain momentum. There is an enormous difference between a hurry up offense and a no huddle offense. A lot of the time we were in no huddle but not hurry up. Edited June 22, 2014 by Kelly the Dog
billybrew1 Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 I totally understand the OP's point... But Hackett's point would likely be that he envisions a Bills Offense as efficient as those Brady led NE Offenses...An Offense that, given an extra possession or two, will use them like a daggers against you... That being said I'm hoping for some flexibility on the plan...Truth is though...slow or not...too many 3 and outs is going to lead to a bad season regardless...It's just a slower death if you slow it down... Excellent comment. I also think a thing no one has mentioned yet is that the Bills are incredibly young and new in this offense. Coaches, as a whole, want their guys to get their main offense down pat; to be natural in it, before moving on to secondary offenses....we also have to overcome by far our hardest obstacle, learning how to win. Let's get that offense believing they can score in bunches (to even convince the defense as well) before we make any other adjustments. Let's see some real success burning and ripping this offense and WINNING GAMES consistently before considering moving onto the next. We have to Billieve!
Luxy312 Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 I get Hackett's goal. Run plays such that opposing defenses can't effectively substitute and make adjustments. It requires execution though. In terms of some of the comments about adjusting the game plan when they're ahead, I think that's how you lose the close games. Playing "not to lose" is folly, particularly in situations where what you're already running is working. To say teams shouldn't adjust when things are NOT working is stupid too. If a team is experiencing 3 and outs fairly consistently while running the hurry up, then they should stop running the hurry up. It's football 101. If any fan believes that this team would look like a well oiled machine right out of the gates with new coaching, playbook, players, etc., you're setting your expectations way too high. If they don't appear to be improved this year, I will be disappointed. Let's wait and see what happens though before passing judgement.
FireChan Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 A lot of experts here taking stock in things said before training camp. I'm sure their response would be just as spirited if the news was how awesome EJ was looking. You say that like the opposite isn't true as well. How many of the "it's just training camp" crowd would be getting excited if EJ was dominating?
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Certainly I think the pace of the offense and his philosophy on it are worrysome. Actually I'm more concerned with his play calling. Last year he drove me nuts. Injury problems at qb and he just insisted on running the same read option play over and over. While it can be effective, you have to pick your spots with it, like on a big third and three late in the game. I wish they would just get it out of their heads that EJ is a running QB. He runs like a stork for crying out loud, I mean if he has to run, fine, but don't design runs for him. Ok, running CJ straight over guard, over, and over. Really? Is he to pig headed to copy some of Chans screen plays?
bladiebla Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 The go-go-go-go philospy is a great one I think, provided he can and will dial it down to really slow and all increments in between. That will throw off a DC and Defense, if they stick to one speed even if it's ultra fast, the opponent will find a rythm. I think it's important to do anything to prevent the opposing DC and Defense from finding a rythm. That said from a practise setting it means you have to train on your highest possible speed in order to make that smooth.
Wayne Cubed Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) You say that like the opposite isn't true as well. How many of the "it's just training camp" crowd would be getting excited if EJ was dominating? It's funny you say that, but by all accounts EJ's last mini-camp practice was very good. Did you see any threads saying how amazing EJ was going to be? Nope. Because most of the people who say "it's just training camp" realize that even a great practice doesn't mean anything. Only when the games start will we know anything about EJ. Edited June 22, 2014 by Wayne Cubed
Beerball Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 I may be wrong, but as last season progressed didn't the Bills slow it down and eat up some clock when they had a lead? I seem to remember thinking that they had somewhat learned to change the pace when having to. They did slow things down, but was that by design or because they felt Manuel would better handle a 'normal' pace in his first season? Then of course, he was injured.
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