thebandit27 Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Bandit -- I think those of us on the "we don't trust anyone from Toronto" side of this argument are really struggling with simply having faith in an unnamed source with no release of any specific information to validate that statement, albeit from a reputable TBD poster (Kirby Jax). Faith is a tough thing, blind faith is even harder ! You have to admit on the surface, the idea of a couple of Toronto based Canadian billionaires wanting to buy the Bills and keep them in Buffalo after the lease expires, is a bit of a stretch, right ? All bidders have been told not to bid if they don't have a long term plan to keep the team in Buffalo, so, if I'm them, I put together a long term Buffalo plan, will the plan ever get executed, in my opinion, probably not, but I have my plan to prove to the trust, that I've done my due diligence and followed the rules. Again, if Kirby Jackson could or would name names and give all of us the details that make him so comfortable in his opinion, it might be easier for us to fall in line behind he, you and others who are so comfortable. I understand why he can't and I respect him for being confidential, but, for me, at this point, it's too much to ask in the face for a fairly reasonable and quite logical scenario of a couple Toronto billionaires duping the trust and later moving the team. Naming names would change absolutely nothing. I mean we've got Sal P and Ron Jaws saying the same thing and people don't believe them, so what difference does it make? Kirby could say it was from Mary Wilson herself and all he'd get is "well of course she'd say that to YOU, but how can we trust that that's really true?"
GA BILLS FAN Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Naming names would change absolutely nothing. I mean we've got Sal P and Ron Jaws saying the same thing and people don't believe them, so what difference does it make? Kirby could say it was from Mary Wilson herself and all he'd get is "well of course she'd say that to YOU, but how can we trust that that's really true?" It would change my opinion if there was something more than just their "word", if that's all Kirby knows than, your right, it wouldn't help me get more comfortable. In other words, Jaws' comments about JBJ were essentially "I've spoken with JBJ and trust me, he has no intentions of moving the team" -- if JBJ told Mary Wilson that and she accepted it at face value, YES, I'd still have a big problem and not trust him. I can't imaging all the confidence folks are claiming boils down to the Toronto guys word, does it ? -- even a doubting Thomas like myself is assuming Kirby and the others have something more than that. Edited July 21, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN
Peter Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) If he were to sign an iron cad 100 year lease and move to Buffalo as his permanent residence, I then might begin to believe him. Maybe. The cat is already out of the bag. They are trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. If they were to somehow buy the team, how long will it be before we start hearing them make demands that cannot be agreed to and then claim that they have no choice but to move the team. This is a charade. I suspect both the Trust and the NFL already know this. Edited July 21, 2014 by Peter
Kirby Jackson Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Bandit -- I think those of us on the "we don't trust anyone from Toronto" side of this argument are really struggling with simply having faith in an unnamed source with no release of any specific information to validate that statement, albeit from a reputable TBD poster (Kirby Jax). Faith is a tough thing, blind faith is even harder ! You have to admit on the surface, the idea of a couple of Toronto based Canadian billionaires wanting to buy the Bills and keep them in Buffalo after the lease expires, is a bit of a stretch, right ? All bidders have been told not to bid if they don't have a long term plan to keep the team in Buffalo, so, if I'm them, I put together a long term Buffalo plan, will the plan ever get executed, in my opinion, probably not, but I have my plan to prove to the trust, that I've done my due diligence and followed the rules. Again, if Kirby Jackson could or would name names and give all of us the details that make him so comfortable in his opinion, it might be easier for us to fall in line behind he, you and others who are so comfortable. I understand why he can't and I respect him for being confidential, but, for me, at this point, it's too much to ask in the face for a fairly reasonable and quite logical scenario of a couple Toronto billionaires duping the trust and later moving the team. I won't give the name that has told me this but if I did you would be less worried.
May Day 10 Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 is this the fact that Bon Jovi wants to own a team committed to Buffalo or the fact that the Trust will not take a Bon Jovi bid at face value as a WNY bid.
K D Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 If he were to sign an iron cad 100 year lease and move to Buffalo as his permanent residence, I then might begin to believe him. Maybe. The cat is already out of the bag. They are trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. If they were to somehow buy the team, how long will it be before we start hearing them make demands that cannot be agreed to and then claim that they have no choice but to move the team. This is a charade. I suspect both the Trust and the NFL already know this. Agreed. What is happening now is a PR campaign to try and lessen the blow. They are purposely trying to "leak" the news out that they have changed their minds and they will NOT move the team. Oh really? Suuuure we believe you. Oh and you have a bridge you would like to sell us? Well that sounds dandy
Kelly the Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 As stated in another thread although this is a better discussion of it: What people seem to forget about the lease is the stipulation that ownership is not even allowed to talk about moving the team while the lease is in effect. They couldn't even legally have contingency plans to move. If they were discussing plans for a Toronto stadium at any point to anyone in those six years they would basically be asking dozens of people to perjure themselves on the witness stand in an inevitable court case. It ain't gonna happen.
GA BILLS FAN Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I won't give the name that has told me this but if I did you would be less worried. Can you at least say that your level of comfort goes beyond the trustees taking the potential ownership groups at their word that they won't move the team ? Edited July 21, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN
May Day 10 Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 As stated in another thread although this is a better discussion of it: What people seem to forget about the lease is the stipulation that ownership is not even allowed to talk about moving the team while the lease is in effect. They couldn't even legally have contingency plans to move. If they were discussing plans for a Toronto stadium at any point to anyone in those six years they would basically be asking dozens of people to perjure themselves on the witness stand in an inevitable court case. It ain't gonna happen. what if they built a state of the are, extra awesome stadium for the Argos to open in 2020?
Kelly the Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 what if they built a state of the are, extra awesome stadium for the Argos to open in 2020? That still wouldn't work. There isn't a judge in the land, let alone Erie County, that would rule in their favor, when they said under oath that they had no intention or discussion about moving the team from Buffalo, when they DIDNT enter any serious discussions about building a stadium around Buffalo but did build one for a team that gets 15,000 to their games in Toronto. It still wouldn't work.
K D Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 what if they built a state of the are, extra awesome stadium for the Argos to open in 2020? They can just build "an NFL caliber stadium" without a team knowing that the Toronto people have no intention of staying in Buffalo. LA has been talking about building a stadium to try and attract a team for years
The Wiz Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 what if they built a state of the are, extra awesome stadium for the Argos to open in 2020? Considering they can't even sell out their current stadium I doubt they would. Also I believe the city of Toronto refused to give money for a new stadium so it would need to be completely funded by the owner. Mommy Rogers ain't gonna cut that check.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 They can just build "an NFL caliber stadium" without a team knowing that the Toronto people have no intention of staying in Buffalo. LA has been talking about building a stadium to try and attract a team for years Not a chance. And notice that no one has actually come close to building that mythical stadium in Los Angeles. They would have to convince a judge that they were dead set on simultaneously building TWO $800 million dollar stadiums at the same time 75 miles apart for both of their teams. It ain't happening.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Can you at least say that your level of comfort goes beyond the trustees taking the potential ownership groups at their word that they won't move the team ? Way beyond that
TheFunPolice Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 So it looks like the Toronto group is going to be the one that gets the team? The missing piece for me (and why I've been so negative in this thread) is that you have local billionaires (Pegula and Golisano) who want to buy, so why in God's name would they sell to the Toronto group? How did they suddenly become the favorite? It just seems strange that they would sell to a group that will result in a PR firestorm and constant negativity around the team when someone like Pegula is there with cash. Also, how can you put into writing that they CANNOT move the team? We know the lease is ironclad, but it ends in 5-6 years. Once it ends all bets would be off, or else the sale of the team effectively constitutes an extension of the lease at RWS. Am I missing something?
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 So it looks like the Toronto group is going to be the one that gets the team? The missing piece for me (and why I've been so negative in this thread) is that you have local billionaires (Pegula and Golisano) who want to buy, so why in God's name would they sell to the Toronto group? How did they suddenly become the favorite? It just seems strange that they would sell to a group that will result in a PR firestorm and constant negativity around the team when someone like Pegula is there with cash. Also, how can you put into writing that they CANNOT move the team? We know the lease is ironclad, but it ends in 5-6 years. Once it ends all bets would be off, or else the sale of the team effectively constitutes an extension of the lease at RWS. Am I missing something? Yes, you're missing any actual news or announcement that would suggest that this whole scenario is happening. Other than that, good show running around like a chicken with your head cut off.
The Wiz Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 So it looks like the Toronto group is going to be the one that gets the team? The missing piece for me (and why I've been so negative in this thread) is that you have local billionaires (Pegula and Golisano) who want to buy, so why in God's name would they sell to the Toronto group? How did they suddenly become the favorite? It just seems strange that they would sell to a group that will result in a PR firestorm and constant negativity around the team when someone like Pegula is there with cash. Also, how can you put into writing that they CANNOT move the team? We know the lease is ironclad, but it ends in 5-6 years. Once it ends all bets would be off, or else the sale of the team effectively constitutes an extension of the lease at RWS. Am I missing something? To sum your questions, there's no such thing as bad publicity. No news from pegula and golisano is just that, no news. Doesn't mean wheels are turning and the midnight oil isn't getting burned. As for the contract, I've always been curious whether or not there is any play for the trust to say "as long as the team is fiscally viable, they can't be moved"
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