What if American football used soccer-style rules?

[bowery4]

Goodgrief NO, and that's coming from a European... So much wrong with the officiating in soccer, this world championship alone; out of the first 4 games, 3 were decided by bad calls the refs made, and it could have been 4 had the Dutch not walked over Spain after that false penalty. That said we're seeing a surprising amount of goals thus far, normally in the division stage of the world championship the games are all 0-0 or 1-0 games, current scores make the game a lot more fun to watch. But soccer can be so boring if either one of the team decides to go for defense only. It's a great game but you need to have two teams that are willing to attack in order for it to be entertaining to watch.

 

I do happen to think the NFL could learn a thing or two from Fieldhockey officiating though (and soccer a million things), they have a great system in place (basicly a ref is under constant review by a video ref).

 

The Dutch strategy is a attacking defense one and it worked damned well against Spain. I want them to win, thought they were shorted by the refs last WC.

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

PTR, I made this point before, and no one really addressed it. Basically, except for hockey, all timing rules in sports are pretty bunk, and to call out soccer for having bad timing rules isn't really fair. You can run out of bounds in football in the first quarter and the clock keeps running; the time keeps running after a shot in basketball. BUT both these rules magically change for some arbitrary time in the fourth quarter? I'll admit the red card rule and penalty kicks are both rather quite draconian, but honestly every sport has issues with time keeping. I'd much rather let a ref let a couple seconds go to let an attack finish at the end of the game (because maybe someone took an extra second or two with a free kick or throw-in).

Edited June 17, 2014 by OvrOfficiousJerk

[PromoTheRobot]

PTR, I made this point before, and no one really addressed it. Basically, except for hockey, all timing rules in sports are pretty bunk, and to call out soccer for having bad timing rules isn't really fair. You can run out of bounds in football in the first quarter and the clock keeps running; the time keeps running after a shot in basketball. BUT both these rules magically change for some arbitrary time in the fourth quarter? I'll admit the red card rule and penalty kicks are both rather quite draconian, but honestly every sport has issues with time keeping. I'd much rather let a ref let a couple seconds go to let an attack finish at the end of the game (because maybe someone took an extra second or two with a free kick or throw-in).

 

Yes, you can argue about NFL timing rules, but in the end the official clock is up there for all to see...fans, coaches, players and refs. When it hits :00 it's GAME OVER! There is no ref deciding to give the Pats a few more seconds to win a game.

[bbb]

Here is a different spin on this thread, what is the NBA adopted soccer type clock rules. This would eliminate the endless fouling and timeouts in the last few minutes.

 

The end of basketball games always seem so anticlimactic to me due to the stoppages in play.

 

Basketball was my sport and I'm still a big fan, mostly of college hoops, but I have to agree the ends of games are killers. I think maybe allowing less timeouts would be one step.

 

I definitely wouldn't go to this ridiculous soccer timing. You'd have an awful lot of buzzer beaters that only the ref would know is a buzzer beater!

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

Yes, you can argue about NFL timing rules, but in the end the official clock is up there for all to see...fans, coaches, players and refs. When it hits :00 it's GAME OVER! There is no ref deciding to give the Pats a few more seconds to win a game.

 

I can see where you are coming from: the NFL official clock gives everyone involved, spectator and team alike, some degree of transparency. My issue of having a game clock that operates with :00 = GAME OVER is like having the chain system for first downs. The chains have the trappings of EXACTLY TEN YARDS to make everyone feel better. However, given the variability of how the ball is placed on any given spot, demanding such precise measurements seems pretty arbitrary.

 

Your overarching point though is still valid -- too much power is placed in the hands of officials to decide a game. It was a minor miracle that we have goal-line technology at this World Cup, and I'm waiting for offsides to be decided similarly. If baseball can adapt with the times, soccer will too in its own time.

[machine gun kelly]

Soccer sucks. Amen.

 

+1

 

I've tried to watch that game so many times, and it is just boring to me. If you like soccer, great, but no thanks for me.

 

God I remember when my boys were 4, it was the only sport they could play, and it was like getting my spleen taken out without anesthetic. Thank god they gravitated towards football, then lacrosse.

[justnzane]

Say what you guys want. I enjoy watching the game. The stoppage time deal is usually pretty reasonable. For people complaining about low scoring, this year's World Cup has been anything but that. There has been quite a bit of scoring, and no 0-0 games, and just one 1-0 game.

[John Adams]

Yes, I know there are side judges, but they only call offsides and out of bounds.

 

Nope.

[bladiebla]

Sorry, but this is some ignorant thinking. You're looking at football like a huge fan who pays attention to all of the little things, versus a fair weather soccer fan who doesn't know much about the game or doesn't care much. It's ignorant, because there are plenty of soccer fans who pay attention to the little things and want to see every second of the game, just like there are people who just kind of like football and only want to see the big plays or TDs.

 

I was talking about the ability to summarize either game in order to reflect how the match went. I wasn't talking about simply showing the scores of either game (like CNN does). I'm saying that in order to achieve the same level of flow of the game feel a NFL game needs a summary of about 20 to 30 minutes whereas a soccer game needs 5-10 minutes. As a result you hardly see any NFL games being summarized, other then tape delay games where they basicly go from snap to snap and cut out everything in between.

 

Commercially the NFL has gone over the top with the amount of commercials during live games imho, then again soccer suffers from a lack of room for commercials. Soccer stations solve this by having pre-game and post-game discussions. Someone above here posted he likes to DVR games and start watching 1.5 hours into the game, I tend to do the same (by 1 hour though) about half way through the season when things don't matter that much anymore, it's shocking how fast you catch up.

[bladiebla]

The Dutch strategy is a attacking defense one and it worked damned well against Spain. I want them to win, thought they were shorted by the refs last WC.

 

That was an adopted strategy based on the opponent caused by an injury pre trounament to a key midfielder. The Dutch normally play 4-3-3 from juniors through to the national squad. For this game they switched to 5-3-2 which is a very unnatural strategy for the Dutch. What I'm trying to say is that the Dutch grow up playing attacking soccer and even if they switch to a defense style strategy their focus will remain thinking forward because that is rooted in their roots. Watch them wednesday against Australia and I'll bet they'll switch back to a 4-3-3 variant (most likely 4-3-1-2). This is also the reason the Dutch normally show one of the most entertaining styles in the World Cup however they hardly ever get very far because they are susceptible to speed sabotaging teams (like Portugal and Italie). The 5-3-2 variant is very interesting especially in the way it worked for the Dutch, you can bet that they'll revert back to it against Brasil or Germany if they come across those teams, however if they feel they can have the ball possession advantage they will most certainly be playing 4-3-3.

 

+1

 

I've tried to watch that game so many times, and it is just boring to me. If you like soccer, great, but no thanks for me.

 

God I remember when my boys were 4, it was the only sport they could play, and it was like getting my spleen taken out without anesthetic. Thank god they gravitated towards football, then lacrosse.

 

It's a fun game to play though, and easy to play too, all you need is a ball and some space.

 

With regards to watchability I understand where you are coming from, personally I like the World Cup and Champion League finals etc, basicly when ever the game is played at it's highest level of play but I can't be bothered to watch any of the competition stuff, way too boring and that is coming from someone who played the game and watched it growing up.

 

The way players take dives drives me nuts. At least the NHL enforces "embellishment" penalties.

 

Also the fact that there is only one referee running up and down, they miss so many freaking calls. (Like Ireland getting screwed out of a WC berth in 2010 on a blatant French handball.) Yes, I know there are side judges, but they only call offsides and out of bounds.

 

Actually there are 4 referees, the linesmen officials do a lot more then just calling out of bounds and offsides. They also call goals and fouls and act as an advisor to the referee (hardly ever used). Their spots only count when the main referee blows his whistle for it though (the main ref can choose to completly ignore his linesmen). For a complete description of their respective roles read this: http://worldsoccer.about.com/od/soccer101/a/Soccer101_Refs.htm

[John Adams]

I was talking about the ability to summarize either game in order to reflect how the match went. I wasn't talking about simply showing the scores of either game (like CNN does). I'm saying that in order to achieve the same level of flow of the game feel a NFL game needs a summary of about 20 to 30 minutes whereas a soccer game needs 5-10 minutes. As a result you hardly see any NFL games being summarized, other then tape delay games where they basicly go from snap to snap and cut out everything in between.

 

 

That's not true in soccer-watching countries, just ESPN does the short form reports.

[bladiebla]

That's not true in soccer-watching countries, just ESPN does the short form reports.

 

Lol, it is true... at least in each and every European country it is... All countries have programs similar to ESPN sports center based around summaries of the games. And euhrm I know because I grew up in one of those countries watching soccer summaries on Sunday night over dinner...

[maryland-bills-fan]

Do you realize how many rules there are in American football? Every try explaining how many things can have a whistle go off before the ball is even snapped? Certain people have to be stationary. They can't wiggle a finger. Others can move, but how many can move at the same time is defined. Some can move sideways, some can move back. Some can move and stop and how long they stop is defined. Some can move forward, but not all the time (and depending upon what side of the border). How many can line up where is defined. There are 7 officials to keep track of 22 players, plus a bunch of cameras to help out if a coach throws a red panty onto the field. Players can stop the game if they see something they don't like. So can coaches. At least 5 fat players stick their asses up in the air for people to look at. One guy moves up and rubs the groin of one of the bit fat guys from behind on almost every other play. Sometimes he does that and then suddenly moves back a few steps (I can understand that- those big fat guys must eat a lot and the guy coming up behind him may get gassed out sometimes). Most of the "60 minutes" (49) is spent standing around, having players run off and onto the field, standing around in a circle talking about their golf game, having the referees collect the ball for the players and play toss with it for a while before putting it down, or waiting for the ball to be put into play. A guy named the quaterback gets great praise for starting a play with an irregular chant that makes the other team think the play has started when it hasn't. The average play last 4 seconds and then you wait around for a while.

 

Then there is the matter of participation. There are about 750 kids in the average high school. Maybe 50 are on the football team and actually play the sport. The participation is limited to the biggest kids, unless they are exceptionally speedy. Others never get a sniff of actual competition. For post high school, only about 6% play college ball.

Edited June 17, 2014 by maryland-bills-fan

[maryland-bills-fan]

PTR, I made this point before, and no one really addressed it. Basically, except for hockey, all timing rules in sports are pretty bunk, and to call out soccer for having bad timing rules isn't really fair. You can run out of bounds in football in the first quarter and the clock keeps running; the time keeps running after a shot in basketball. BUT both these rules magically change for some arbitrary time in the fourth quarter? I'll admit the red card rule and penalty kicks are both rather quite draconian, but honestly every sport has issues with time keeping. I'd much rather let a ref let a couple seconds go to let an attack finish at the end of the game (because maybe someone took an extra second or two with a free kick or throw-in).

 

I've played, coached and refereed. The custom is that the referee does not end the game if a try on goal looks like its going to happen in the next 3-5 seconds. The ref actually has a lot of influence on how the game is played and what roughness is allowed, not so much by actually blowing the whistle, but by how he looks at the players, talks to the players and even by how he positions himself on the field. A good ref will not have to stop play for infractions all the time, nor hand out very many yellow or red cards. You might look at his role as faciliating a fair game, rather than a policeman.

[Taro T]

Yes, you can argue about NFL timing rules, but in the end the official clock is up there for all to see...fans, coaches, players and refs. When it hits :00 it's GAME OVER! There is no ref deciding to give the Pats a few more seconds to win a game.

ONLY if the play hasn't started, there was no defensive penalty on the play, and there was no touchdown on the play (necessitating an extra point provided you weren't in OT). (There's a couple of more obscure rules that will allow another play as well, but you get the gist.)

 

And you might be at game over prior to 0:00 (realistically) being on the clock due to the 10 second runoff on an offensive penalty w/ clock running under 2 minutes to play.

 

And there's never been a decision to add a second or 2 (or 4) back onto the clock at the end of the game due to the refs deciding the play was dead prior to the clock running out.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

 

ONLY if the play hasn't started, there was no defensive penalty on the play, and there was no touchdown on the play (necessitating an extra point provided you weren't in OT). (There's a couple of more obscure rules that will allow another play as well, but you get the gist.)

 

And you might be at game over prior to 0:00 (realistically) being on the clock due to the 10 second runoff on an offensive penalty w/ clock running under 2 minutes to play.

 

And there's never been a decision to add a second or 2 (or 4) back onto the clock at the end of the game due to the refs deciding the play was dead prior to the clock running out.

 

But it's done in the open, not in a refs head.

[jo39416]

How have we gotten this far into the thread and not talked about what happened last night? Unbelievable.

 

Those that don't get it wont and likely never will. The good news is those people will be left behind as they got older - wondering why/how soccer is becoming more popular.

 

As much as I love football - by far my favorite sport - you will see parents guiding their children into sports where concussions are not as prevalent - and we will see a surge in the quality of American soccer (as we have seen for the last 20 years).

 

For those that love it - enjoy the ride the next few weeks!

 

And for those that say soccer is not catching on the US - here are some random spots in the country where the game was being played last night.

 

http://screamer.deadspin.com/america-reacts-to-game-winner-against-ghana-1591737963/+Sean-Newell

[DC Greg]

I respect that soccer is the most popular sport worldwide. I respect the guys that play it for the endurance it takes to run constantly the entire game. I respect the skill the game requires. I root for the US in the World Cup because I love my country.

 

I hate soccer. I think it's the most boring thing I've ever watched. All the rules you mentioned are ridiculous. I want football to be nothing like soccer.

[PromoTheRobot]

How have we gotten this far into the thread and not talked about what happened last night? Unbelievable.

 

Those that don't get it wont and likely never will. The good news is those people will be left behind as they got older - wondering why/how soccer is becoming more popular.

 

As much as I love football - by far my favorite sport - you will see parents guiding their children into sports where concussions are not as prevalent - and we will see a surge in the quality of American soccer (as we have seen for the last 20 years).

 

For those that love it - enjoy the ride the next few weeks!

 

And for those that say soccer is not catching on the US - here are some random spots in the country where the game was being played last night.

 

http://screamer.deadspin.com/america-reacts-to-game-winner-against-ghana-1591737963/+Sean-Newell

I watch water polo and figure skating during the Olympics too.

[CodeMonkey]

I respect that soccer is the most popular sport worldwide. I respect the guys that play it for the endurance it takes to run constantly the entire game. I respect the skill the game requires. I root for the US in the World Cup because I love my country.

 

I hate soccer. I think it's the most boring thing I've ever watched. All the rules you mentioned are ridiculous. I want football to be nothing like soccer.

I think a big reason you find it so boring is that you grew up in a society where American football is king. You understand and can appreciate the fine points of that game and perhaps even played it at some level. Whereas soccer is the new kid on the block to you and therefore you don't have the same background or history with it. I was the same way until right after college I lived for a year in the UK where i was not only exposed to it, but also got to see it played at a high level consistently. I still enjoy watching quality soccer now, and I do not watch American football at all really except for the Bills. Like you I can and do appreciate the skill it takes to play both games at the professional level.

 

But you do not find the overly anal retentive American football rules ridiculous? I do not think American football is at risk of morphing into football (soccer), the games are simply too different. But I think if American football relaxed it's rules a bit, for example for false starts (which drives me mad particularly early in the season when those flags fly constantly) I think the game would end up flowing better and would be more enjoyable for everyone.