Kelly the Dog Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 To me there is an almost zero chance that the NFL would risk allowing the Toronto group to win the bidding. Anyone with ANY knowledge of the area and fan base would know that the team would draw 15,000 per game for six years of being a lame duck team despite the promises of the Toronto group to keep the team here. Very few, no offense Kirby (I believe everything that you're saying, BTW), would believe the Canadian owners would have no intention of leaving, and half the fan base IMO would jump ship immediately. It would be a colossal embarrassment to the league and I highly, highly doubt, regardless of potential money in Toronto, that they would even think of it.
May Day 10 Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 yeah, Toronto guys buy the team, Im checking out. Its already lost if thats the case. Those guys arent committing to WNY in any sort of reality
K D Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 To me there is an almost zero chance that the NFL would risk allowing the Toronto group to win the bidding. Anyone with ANY knowledge of the area and fan base would know that the team would draw 15,000 per game for six years of being a lame duck team despite the promises of the Toronto group to keep the team here. Very few, no offense Kirby (I believe everything that you're saying, BTW), would believe the Canadian owners would have no intention of leaving, and half the fan base IMO would jump ship immediately. It would be a colossal embarrassment to the league and I highly, highly doubt, regardless of potential money in Toronto, that they would even think of it. this calls for a poll
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Toronto group is swinging for the fences. Hopefully they plan on building in Niagara Falls. We know they would be stuck here was a while so I expect them to play nice with WNY. Edited July 18, 2014 by TheTruthHurts
TheFunPolice Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 Had the Toronto people not made it crystal clear that their intentions were to move the team to Toronto maybe we would feel better about their sudden "change of heart" Once they own the team they will find a way, if they really want to. It comes down to this: do you think they really WANT to keep the team in WNY or is their heart into moving it to Toronto?
Kelly the Dog Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 Had the Toronto people not made it crystal clear that their intentions were to move the team to Toronto maybe we would feel better about their sudden "change of heart" Once they own the team they will find a way, if they really want to. It comes down to this: do you think they really WANT to keep the team in WNY or is their heart into moving it to Toronto? The funny thing is, EVEN if it were true, even if they did genuinely 100% want to keep the team in WNY, no one would believe them until a stadium was actually built. They would struggle to fill the stadium even if they were honest, which I don't believe for a second.
PromoTheRobot Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 This is just stupid. People are posting on this board because they don't want the Bills to leave. NOBODY here wants them to leave. Okay, maybe not. But let me ask you this. If someone started an unsubstantiated thread about the Bills moving and someone else did one about the Bills staying, which one are folks more likely to take seriously?
8-8 Forever? Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 I am waving the white towel on this one. I can't say too much more (I have already said more than I should). If I do post something on here and state it as fact -that is because it is. If there is any conjecture or doubt I keep it off the board. Some will believe me and some won't but I felt a sense of responsibility to pass this one along. It will all play out soon enough and the outcome will be with the Bills in WNY for a long, long time. I guarantee it Hey, long timers say you're the gospel, so that's good enough for me. Go Bills. Long may the flag fly in WNY (somewhere....).
BillsFanM.D. Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 That's a Bull$ht comment PTR ! I'm sorry, I trust that Kirby has good sources, but feeling scared and being worried that a group of Toronto billionaire businessman just might not have the best of intentions at keeping the team in Buffalo is not a stretch --- and if we choose to express that on posts, we somehow want the Bills to leave ? -- that's crap and you know it. I trust that Kirby has good sources, but I don't trust these Toronto guys at all. Like others have said as well as me, what's to prevent them from saying one thing and doing another, a contract ? Noone has said boo about an iron-clad contract to keep the Bills in WNY past the current lease. So, I'm sorry, unless Kirby can share specifics, I need to stop short of being comfortable. And NO, I don't want the team to move !!!!!!!!! I think Ralph "prevents" them. I have no sources.... but my personal speculation is that Ralph would have a plan to ensure his legacy is intact. That plan has likely been in place all along. The bidding has to be respectable so it's 'open' for competition. I imagine Ralph had left very specific guidelines for his wife and the trust members. I imagine Ralph even pulled Roger Goodell's ear a time or two prior to his death. The Bills will be in WNY.... IMHO. I imagine the Toronto guys are 'in it' as it's viewed as an open competition. They are flush with cash and a big market. At face value, and in a true open bid, I'd be making do-do in my pants. However, I just fail to believe a guy as smart as Ralph would not have a posthumous hand in this. I.e. there has been, and is, a plan in the works. Kirby is generally 'locked in' on this stuff. His posting in the past (and his absolute resolution in this topic) make me feel a hell of a lot better. In other words, if he was posting that Toronto was in 'the lead' I'd be very nervous.
GA BILLS FAN Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 I think "Fun Police" captured the fear we have regarding the Toronto group --- if the team is sold to a bunch of BILLIONAIRES from Toronto and they don't WANT to keep the team in WNY, but are FORCED to keep it in WNY, they will spend every waking minute plotting to find a way to move it at some point down the road, it will be hanging over our heads every year and I don't trust the NFL or courts to prevent it on a long term basis. We all concede we have an iron-clad window during lease -- but imagine the negotiaton for public dollars to support a stadium under that scenario -- or the "new owners" wanting to raise revenues to support such an endeavor -- I'm not saying the same wouldn't exist with Pegula or Golisano, but, at least with them, you would know they were approaching the situation from the de facto position that they want to be in WNY. I pray Kirby is right, but I'd feel a whole lot better if I had some facts on the trust/sale process or if they announce Pegs or TG wins bid
Buffalo_Stampede Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 I think "Fun Police" captured the fear we have regarding the Toronto group --- if the team is sold to a bunch of BILLIONAIRES from Toronto and they don't WANT to keep the team in WNY, but are FORCED to keep it in WNY, they will spend every waking minute plotting to find a way to move it at some point down the road, it will be hanging over our heads every year and I don't trust the NFL or courts to prevent it on a long term basis. We all concede we have an iron-clad window during lease -- but imagine the negotiaton for public dollars to support a stadium under that scenario -- or the "new owners" wanting to raise revenues to support such an endeavor -- I'm not saying the same wouldn't exist with Pegula or Golisano, but, at least with them, you would know they were approaching the situation from the de facto position that they want to be in WNY. I pray Kirby is right, but I'd feel a whole lot better if I had some facts on the trust/sale process or if they announce Pegs or TG wins bid The issues Toronto has is they dont have a stadium and cant build until they are out of the lease. So they are really in a tough spot if all they want to do is move to Toronto. They would be better off buying a different team. One thing I wonder about is Ralph's niece. Not many people talk about this but she was the key figure in the Toronto Series, working with MLSE and Rogers. She sits on the International Committee for the NFL. SHe is also one of the 4 trustees. So she has a direct relationship with the Toronto group. Could the plan all along be a Niagara Falls Stadium? I just dont see why else Toronto would bid now.
SRQ_BillsFan Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 Face it. There are a few here who secretly want the Bills to leave because it feeds their sense of victimhood. Yes this is why people are worried about the Toronto group.
May Day 10 Posted July 18, 2014 Posted July 18, 2014 They can't build a stadium for the bills... but the can build an nfl standard stadium "for the argos". I have a bad feeling. Rogers. Bjs meeting with goodell
TheFunPolice Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 it reads a lot like "don't worry about the new owners" and that SUCKS What happened to Pegula?
PromoTheRobot Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Yes this is why people are worried about the Toronto group. With all the stuff in our favor of keeping the Bills right here, we can't stop ourselves from bringing up Toronto. Why is that?
Delete This Account Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 With all the stuff in our favor of keeping the Bills right here, we can't stop ourselves from bringing up Toronto. Why is that? umm, because some of us aren't ostriches. jw
TheFunPolice Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) With all the stuff in our favor of keeping the Bills right here, we can't stop ourselves from bringing up Toronto. Why is that? Let me see if I can help. There are two main reasons: 1) Today we got a bunch of articles about the Toronto group (at least 2 of which are posted right on the TBD site). True or not, fair or not, it looks like momentum. 2) All of a sudden there has been a very disturbing shift in the "don't worry I have sources and we'll be fine" people. It began with Jaws and now the "people with sources" are telling us not to worry, that Rogers/MLSE and Bon Jovi suddenly abandoned all of their plans and want to invest a billion + in keeping the Bills in WNY. So don't act like people are just making this up out of thin air just because they are "doom and gloom" types, or even more absurd, that they want the Bills to move. I can name three people who up until a few weeks ago had EVERY INTENTION of buying the Bills and moving them, and this is not even in question. 1) Bon Jovi 2) Rogers 3) Tannenbaum Now given the lunch with Goddell, Jaws coming out in defense of Bon Jovi, and the "don't worry I have sources" people telling us we'll be fine with those 3 as owners I think people have some pretty valid reasons to worry. It is starting to look more like a plan and less like a possibility. We were ready to build the Pegula statue, and now we're supposed to get excited about the prospect of 3 men whose goal was to relocate the team to Toronto suddenly having a "come to Jesus" moment just in time to buy the team.... Edited July 19, 2014 by TheFunPolice
Kirby Jackson Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Let me see if I can help. There are two main reasons: 1) Today we got a bunch of articles about the Toronto group (at least 2 of which are posted right on the TBD site). True or not, fair or not, it looks like momentum. 2) All of a sudden there has been a very disturbing shift in the "don't worry I have sources and we'll be fine" people. It began with Jaws and now the "people with sources" are telling us not to worry, that Rogers/MLSE and Bon Jovi suddenly abandoned all of their plans and want to invest a billion + in keeping the Bills in WNY. So don't act like people are just making this up out of thin air just because they are "doom and gloom" types, or even more absurd, that they want the Bills to move. I can name three people who up until a few weeks ago had EVERY INTENTION of buying the Bills and moving them, and this is not even in question. 1) Bon Jovi 2) Rogers 3) Tannenbaum Now given the lunch with Goddell, Jaws coming out in defense of Bon Jovi, and the "don't worry I have sources" people telling us we'll be fine with those 3 as owners I think people have some pretty valid reasons to worry. It is starting to look more like a plan and less like a possibility. We were ready to build the Pegula statue, and now we're supposed to get excited about the prospect of 3 men whose goal was to relocate the team to Toronto suddenly having a "come to Jesus" moment just in time to buy the team.... You don't need to refer to me as the "don't worry we have sources people." You can just say KJ. If you want to call me out I am comfortable with it. I don't particularly care for beating around the bush. Edited July 19, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
Wayne Cubed Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) For the life of me can't understand why some fans, even with certain information staring them in the face, still refuse to believe what they're being told. First, it's been said by multiple posters and reporters that each bid must include plans to keep the Bills in WNY. But this Toronto group is just going to lie, right? Deceive 32 owners and the 4 members of the trust just to move the team in 6 years? Lets completely ignore that the league would still need to approve the move when the time came to move. So they approve the sale to this Toronto group, with their plan to stay, but then 6 later change their mind and the NFL let them move? I don't get it, why would they do that? Sure, you can point to history and say the Raiders challenged the NFL and won, but the last 2 teams to move (Houston and Cleveland) have left the league with egg on their face. So much so that those 2 cities got teams over bids from Los Angeles. Second, there's the logistics of the Bills moving. There isn't a stadium in Toronto the Bills could currently play at or even temporarily play at. The current government in Toronto is offering ZERO financial support for the Argos new stadium, so it's safe to assume at this point that an NFL move there would receive zero financial support. A Toronto bid can't just assume that in 6 years, on a prayer, that money might be there. They need to plan the future. So they can do 2 things, come up with the possible billion dollars for a stadium in Toronto, out of their own pocket, OR work with WNY and NY politicians and get public funding, which would reduce the cost to a new owner. This is all assuming this Toronto group even wins the bid in the first place. The conspiracy theories out there are crazy, reporters/jaws/insiders are just trying to calm the fans? Seriously? Ask yourself this, if a Toronto group did win, would you really be calm? No. You've already proved that, so what possible purpose could "calming" the fans do, when "you know" a Toronto bid is going to move the team? Edited July 19, 2014 by Wayne Cubed
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