simpleman Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Now, if that stadium had a roof, whether permanent or retractable, might that stadium attract events like NCAA BB? Occasional concerts? Pro Wrasslin? Monster truck events? Maybe I have the rose colored glasses on, but, would it be used more than The Ralph? Is that bad or good? If we all accept the fact that the new owner will be looking at the team as an investment and as a business, the term ROI is critical. Yes, there is an ego element to owning an NFL franchise, but the business side will still be the primary motivator in most decisions. If a roof is required to elevate the game or required by the league or the fans for their comfort, then the roof may make sense. But the ROI on a roof for non game purposes is absolutely a horrible investment. History and facts show that non game day facility investments are bad business. As Kirby mentioned, any investments around a stadium that are not about the game day activity (only 8 days a year) should be considered separate business ventures, which will sink or swim based on the quality of the business plan for the other 350+ days a year. Edited June 10, 2014 by simpleman
May Day 10 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 someone earlier said "100+" which started the inventory of possibilities. What concerts would play there? I dont think anyone does stadiums... maybe some country acts, but do they sell out stadiums North of Kentucky? I agree though it would be used more than RWS and Im sure NYS will make sure of that before providing bucks.
Beerball Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 If we all accept the fact that the new owner will be looking at the team as an investment and as a business, the term ROI is critical. Yes, there is an ego element to owning an NFL franchise, but the business side will still be the primary motivator in most decisions. If a roof is required to elevate the game or required by the league or the fans for their comfort, then the roof may make sense. But the ROI on a roof for non game purposes is absolutely a horrible investment. History and facts show that non game day facility investments are bad business. As Kirby mentioned, any investments around a stadium that are not about the game day activity (only 8 days a year) should be considered separate business ventures, which will sink or swim based on the quality of the business plan for the other 350+ days a year. Stadia aren't built to make money and unless the owner puts up very significant $$$ ROI shouldn't be considered (IMO). This stadium will likely be built with league money, state money, local money and owner money. It won't make money, but, it should be used as often as possible. (IMHO)
thebandit27 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Stadium concerts dont really exist. Especially with a Buffalo venue as I could see it being bypassed for Toronto if its the one tour (U2) who does it. My hope is also the Waterfront will have a permanent brick and mortar amphitheatre before long. I think we have: 8 Bills Games 2 Bills Preseason Games 0-2 Bills Playoff Games 5-6 Bulls Games. Things would have to change and we would need to spur some interest, the program would have to take off and maybe upgrade in Conference. Much like temple/rutgers. I would certainly attend 1 NCAA Bowl Game of some sort, likely on a 3rd tier. 0-1 Maybe crowbar switching every other season of the MAC Championship Game with Detroit. If UB not in the MAC, likely an extra home game. 1 WNY High School Championships (lets face it, hundreds attend) 1 State High School Championships (not sure how many attend in Syracuse, but Im sure the State will want to move it to their new toy) Once in a lifetime/very rare events: NCAA Basketball Regionals NCAA Basketball Final Four Wrestlemania "Outdoor" Hockey Games So optimistically we have about 20 events with only the Bills games really selling out. UB games currently get between 8k-15k I believe and even a Bowl Game might see only 30-40K (Id be there!) Those rare events would be huge sellouts at inflated pricing and bring in many tourists. They have that RV show in RWS or at least they did. That is one convention. It would also be great if they can hold/plan some sort of giant convention/woodstock of outdoor activities such as hunting/fishing/etc. I would also say it would be a PRIMO spot for a big UFC card if NYS ever legalizes events here. It is HUGE in Canada and that stadium would easily be filled. But still. Nowehere near 100 or even close to the big ticket events Jerry's World gets. Just a minor point of emphasis: I wouldn't call the NCAA regionals "very rare"...currently they come to the FNC about every 3-4 years. Sure, it's not an annual event, but it's certainly a regularity. If we all accept the fact that the new owner will be looking at the team as an investment and as a business, the term ROI is critical. Yes, there is an ego element to owning an NFL franchise, but the business side will still be the primary motivator in most decisions. If a roof is required to elevate the game or required by the league or the fans for their comfort, then the roof may make sense. But the ROI on a roof for non game purposes is absolutely a horrible investment. History and facts show that non game day facility investments are bad business. As Kirby mentioned, any investments around a stadium that are not about the game day activity (only 8 days a year) should be considered separate business ventures, which will sink or swim based on the quality of the business plan for the other 350+ days a year. ROI is virtually guaranteed with the TV contract, so what you're really focusing on here is the ROI for the de facto retractable roof itself. The retractable roof is maybe $150M...considering the lifetime of the stadium itself, the mere fact that it allows events like the NCAAs is probably close to a break-even, and when you lump a likely increase in late-season game attendance in with the other factors mentioned in this thread, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't produce a significant ROI.
May Day 10 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 The 1st 2 rounds come here every 3-4 years, Im unsure if they are worthy of a 60K+ seat venue... Regionals were here once I believe? Maybe 1x every 8-10 years would be realistic?
thebandit27 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 The 1st 2 rounds come here every 3-4 years, Im unsure if they are worthy of a 60K+ seat venue... Regionals were here once I believe? Maybe 1x every 8-10 years would be realistic? Right, regionals...don't know why I didn't put that together the first time. Worthy? Who knows? I do think that they'd sell more seats than the 20,000 that fill the FNC right now though. I also think that the idea of a college bowl game isn't crazy either.
zonabb Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Gotta love listening to our favorite media rep on WGR55 complain about speculation and slap people's wrists for conjecture and rumoring and then stating he knows an interested bidder who won't bid due to costs.... also know as fueling more speculation an rumor mongering. Maybe the media needs to recognize that their need to produce copy and feed the 24 hour news cycle. Now he's slapping the County Executive's wrist and telling him to stop the speculation. Uh.... you just pushed more speculation about bidders backing out. Jesus, hypocrisy doesn't own a mirror. I guess the media plays by its own rules where anonymous sources and speculation is OK for it but for anyone else, it's unacceptable.
26CornerBlitz Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Gotta love listening to our favorite media rep on WGR55 complain about speculation and slap people's wrists for conjecture and rumoring and then stating he knows an interested bidder who won't bid due to costs.... also know as fueling more speculation an rumor mongering. Maybe the media needs to recognize that their need to produce copy and feed the 24 hour news cycle. Now he's slapping the County Executive's wrist and telling him to stop the speculation. Uh.... you just pushed more speculation about bidders backing out. Jesus, hypocrisy doesn't own a mirror. I guess the media plays by its own rules where anonymous sources and speculation is OK for it but for anyone else, it's unacceptable. 6/10 JOHN WARROW FROM AP TALKS BILLS' SALE <17:49> I thought his interview was great. He's all over this story.
May Day 10 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Can someone please paraphrase any important/interesting parts for those with no audio?
SDS Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Gotta love listening to our favorite media rep on WGR55 complain about speculation and slap people's wrists for conjecture and rumoring and then stating he knows an interested bidder who won't bid due to costs.... also know as fueling more speculation an rumor mongering. Maybe the media needs to recognize that their need to produce copy and feed the 24 hour news cycle. Now he's slapping the County Executive's wrist and telling him to stop the speculation. Uh.... you just pushed more speculation about bidders backing out. Jesus, hypocrisy doesn't own a mirror. I guess the media plays by its own rules where anonymous sources and speculation is OK for it but for anyone else, it's unacceptable. You hate the media and reporters. We get it. Thanks.
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Will a new stadium be built? I believe that the answer is yes. If that new stadium is put in a "proper" location can the UB Bulls also call it home? Yes. Will that new stadium be used for all section championships? Yes. Might that new stadium sometimes host super-sectionals (state championships if NYS has those)? I believe yes. Aren't you near 20 events not counting super-sectionals? Does NY/PN still play an all star football game? Now, if that stadium had a roof, whether permanent or retractable, might that stadium attract events like NCAA BB? Occasional concerts? Pro Wrasslin? Monster truck events? Maybe I have the rose colored glasses on, but, would it be used more than The Ralph? Is that bad or good? Thank you for not starting a new thread. I don't see any high school sports being played there--it would be prohibitively expensive for them to rent such a place. There is no demand to use the Ralph for these purposes now, so I don't see a new stadium being used this way either. ATT, perhaps one of the most booked stadiums, has only a handfull of concerts all year. Stadia aren't built to make money and unless the owner puts up very significant $$$ ROI shouldn't be considered (IMO). This stadium will likely be built with league money, state money, local money and owner money. It won't make money, but, it should be used as often as possible. (IMHO) My point was that many here have posted and continue to post that a new stadium would be built (and perhaps a "convention center") with the possibility that it could be a multi-use faciliy, when these places aren't really used that way these days. It's not a practical benefit to host 20 or so minor events a year. My guess is that the owner will be epected to put up a large amount of his onw money for the stadium. Despite what some here think about our craven politicians' interest in the Bills, it will be very difficult politically for a Governor and US Senators to convince the state to give up hundreds of millions more to that area of the state just to build the Bills billionaire owner a shiny new stadium. ROI is virtually guaranteed with the TV contract, so what you're really focusing on here is the ROI for the de facto retractable roof itself. The retractable roof is maybe $150M...considering the lifetime of the stadium itself, the mere fact that it allows events like the NCAAs is probably close to a break-even, and when you lump a likely increase in late-season game attendance in with the other factors mentioned in this thread, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't produce a significant ROI. The only thing that the TV contract vitually guarantees is most of the cost of the salary cap each year. Whatever revenue is left has to pay off the actual entire investment i.e.: team purchase cost, stadium cost to the owner. HAving a dome for the occaisional regional March MAdness won't ever pay that off.
SRQ_BillsFan Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Lucas Oil also hosts the Big 10 Championship game in CFB. Doesn't the NFL hold the draft combine there as well? Those are two pretty big ones to miss, which makes one wonder how many small things were missed There simply has to be 3-4 100 guest weddings that have been left off the list, maybe more? Are we getting close to 50 events yet? .
YoloinOhio Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 Doesn't the NFL hold the draft combine there as well? Those are two pretty big ones to miss, which makes one wonder how many small things were missed There simply has to be 3-4 100 guest weddings that have been left off the list, maybe more? Are we getting close to 50 events yet? . Yes
Security Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Golisano marries Monica Seles! he is 72, she is 40! She is a orginal ball striking grunter! I actually had a crush on her a long time ago!
BringBackFergy Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I dare you to start a Monica Seles thread! We haven't had one today yet. LOL Stirring the pot.
jimmy10 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 "Tom Golisano is married to Monica Seles" is the new "Fitz went to Harvard."
Beerball Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I don't see any high school sports being played there--it would be prohibitively expensive for them to rent such a place. There is no demand to use the Ralph for these purposes now, so I don't see a new stadium being used this way either. ATT, perhaps one of the most booked stadiums, has only a handfull of concerts all year. My point was that many here have posted and continue to post that a new stadium would be built (and perhaps a "convention center") with the possibility that it could be a multi-use faciliy, when these places aren't really used that way these days. It's not a practical benefit to host 20 or so minor events a year. My guess is that the owner will be epected to put up a large amount of his onw money for the stadium. Despite what some here think about our craven politicians' interest in the Bills, it will be very difficult politically for a Governor and US Senators to convince the state to give up hundreds of millions more to that area of the state just to build the Bills billionaire owner a shiny new stadium. The only thing that the TV contract vitually guarantees is most of the cost of the salary cap each year. Whatever revenue is left has to pay off the actual entire investment i.e.: team purchase cost, stadium cost to the owner. HAving a dome for the occaisional regional March MAdness won't ever pay that off. Jerry World has been hosting HS games since it opened. I'm certain that he does not make money on these events, perhaps he donates the stadium to them. Concessions and parking fees as well as ticket $$$ are collected. You and others are focusing too much IMO on the bottom line here. A new stadium is built not to make money, it is to stoke the ego of the owner. In this case the ego will belong to the state, the county, the city where the stadium is placed and the team owner. Put a roof on it and use it throughout the year. If we're lucky we won't need to have this conversation for another 40 years. Also...forgot Lax championships, soccer etc.
JohnC Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Why? Let's say there were zero events at RCA other than Colts games. Going from zero to what they are booking now doesn't look significanct and I'm guessing it's far less than they were hoping for or projecting in order to generate non-football income. Take away the Final 4 and the Big 10 game (they won't be coming to Buffalo) and you see how underutilized Lucas Stadium is as it stands now. If that's the model the Bill's stadium complex aspires to, it still struggles as a multi-use venue and it argues against the assumption that use other than for football is a valid reason to fund such a huge project (stadium/convention center). You are creating a standard that no other new stadium can live up to. Will a new western NY facility get a return on the dollars spent to get it built? Probably not. So what? The revenue generated by the current convention including its multiple upgrades will not be enough to solely pay off its construction costs. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't worth building. If a reasonably priced covered facility could be built for the Bills and the facility could be used for an updated and larger sized convention facility then it would be a reasonable expenditure. If the new facility in conjunction to other waterfront development stimulate additional investment in that area of town then it would be worth the investment. Do the events in the arena that the Sabres play in generate enough revenue to totally pay off the building bonds for its construction? I doubt it. But if the facility didn't exhist then the Sabres would be relocated. There comes a time where one has to make tough choices. If a new facility is not built then the viability of the franchise will in the not too distant future will be an issue again. Is it worth spending another $350-450 M for another Orchard Park facility upgrade that will be used less than a dozen times a year? Or is it better to spend in the $1 B range for a multi-purpose facility that will include a new convention center and have a greater economic spill-over effect for area?
CodeMonkey Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Also...forgot Lax championships, soccer etc. That is a really good point about soccer that I had not thought of before. The playing surface of most NFL stadiums is too small to comfortably fit a regulation soccer field so If the Bills do get a new stadium then hosting a future MLS team should be considered in the design. A MLS team would be another good tenant and if the playing size is proper, if the US ever hosts the world cup or women's, or junior's world cups again Buffalo could be a viable venue. Edited June 10, 2014 by CodeMonkey
beerme1 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Soccer should never be considered. They would make the seats too far away from the field by adding extra room on the field. I've never seen a great football stadium with a track around a field like you with say a multi purpose Olympic type of stadium. Soccer and our Football don't mix. At least not here!
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