Jauronimo Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I only found this funny the first fourteen times...don't you guys know when to quit? Oh and by the way -- will El Pegual still have to sell the Bandits? Great question, eball.
beerme1 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Do you think that the Wilson estate would scoff a wealthy hedge fund manager or Canadian buyer who wanted to pay double what the franchise would be worth out of loyalty to a region they don't reside in? I do. I believe the trust group has marching orders to try to keep the team in Buffalo. There is a mans legacy involved in this. Do you not lend any credence to that? I've said this before but half of the trust would accept the hedge fund manager type you speak of. The other half wont. Part of the other half owns the team and can accept a billion dollars and call it a day.
jimmy10 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I only found this funny the first fourteen times...don't you guys know when to quit? Oh and by the way -- will El Pegual still have to sell the Bandits? Great question, eball. I am deeply offended by your snark and irreverence. This is the Internet, and there is no room for buffoonery or jackassitude on the Internet. It is a place meant only for high-minded discussion, Socratic meandering through the complex issues of our time, and cat videos. As the final arbiter if what is and isn't funny, I speak for everyone when I say you are not funny.
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 The NFL already gets TV dollars from Canada. They show NFL games on CTV. DANGER, DANGER, BILLS FANS!! EL PEGUAL MIGHT RUN BILLS INTO THE GROUND LIKE HE DID THE SABRES!!! Thank you, Bucky Gleason, for warning us of this impending peril! As much truth as there may be in the article, I'd rather have a losing team in Buffalo, than a winning team in Canada.
CodeMonkey Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 As much truth as there may be in the article, I'd rather have a losing team in Buffalo, than a winning team in Canada. I think a lot of people in the Buffalo area feel this way. Mainly because for them, their enjoyment is based more on being at the event than the quality of the team.
YoloinOhio Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Great post and compelling argument, however, I would disagree on one point, your last one. The public believing and having as youcall it "religious fervency" does matter. Why ? Because it creates energy, a buzz and strong public awareness. Part of a politician's job is to SELL the community, but also to sell those outside a community or their area. Creating strong PR for Buffalo or WNY will attract other businesses outside the area into WNY, and that, while a net zero to the country as a whole is a net positive to WNY. The other phenomenon that I'd like to raise is the reality of the concept of a "tipping point", it does exist, but is difficult to determine, by that measure what I mean is that smart money follows the first mover money, so as investments in Buffalo continue,while subsidized at the start, will eventually require less and less subsidy. There are no guarantees this will work, but, government has an obligation to try, in a responsible way to make it work. At this time, I think what Buffalo is doing is responsible, while I'm not sure it will work (as you point out), I think it's an effort that has merits. Kind of cool that Keith Rivers is the one who tweeted this out:Keith Rivers @rivers55 11m Elon Musk's sunny plans for Buffalo http://pulse.me/s/1sEkEl
shrader Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 The Clippers' situation has little to do with being a rational business deal that was capable of being be a self-sustaining transaction, let alone be profitable. Ballmer, the prospective buyer, is worth $20 B or more. He wanted an NBA franchise and he was determined to procure one even if it made no business sense. There was one story circulating that he told Sterling's wife (seller of the franchise) that no matter what anyone else's bid was from he was willing to pay $200 M more. There is no possible way that the Clippers could generate enough money and adequate cash/flow to sustain a $2 B deal. So the solultion for for someone who is in the wealthy stratosphere is simply to sell off a small portion of his assets and buy the team with his own cash. My point is that for a very select few who are at the top of the financial pyramid some deals are not about money. It is about someone wanting to enter the exclusive ownership "club" even if it doesn't make any financial sense. Ballmer tentatively bought the Clippers for at least double the evaluation. Could that same scenario play out with the Bills? Absolutely. Do you think that the Wilson estate would scoff a wealthy hedge fund manager or Canadian buyer who wanted to pay double what the franchise would be worth out of loyalty to a region they don't reside in? Not only does he join that owners club, but he also does it with a team in LA. That has to be a big one for someone making a purchase if it's for the sake of his status. And then there's one other major factor. He also winds up portrayed as the guy who rescued that team from the Sterlings. The guy is going to immediately be a media darling for that reason alone. Of course, being a media darling only lasts so long if the team doesn't play well. Just ask Pegula.
jimmy10 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Kind of cool that Keith Rivers is the one who tweeted this out: Keith Rivers @rivers55 11m Elon Musk's sunny plans for Buffalo http://pulse.me/s/1sEkEl There's a certain irony in a solar panel plant being built in one of the cloudiest regions of the country.
YoloinOhio Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 There's a certain irony in a solar panel plant being built in one of the cloudiest regions of the country.
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I think a lot of people in the Buffalo area feel this way. Mainly because for them, their enjoyment is based more on being at the event than the quality of the team. Exactly. This year I had more fun at the end of the year when the games didn't matter, because I was just there for fun. Also the Toronto ownership already owns the Leafs and Raptors, who are getting better, but they're not exactly powerhouse teams.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Where I disagree with you is on the issue of valuations and pricing. Outside analysts do their best in examining cash flows, debt servicing, potential revenue etc. It means little if someone doesn't care about buying a sports franchise for financial reasons. To put it simply a franchise is worth whatever anyone is willing to pay for it, whether it is a financially rational or not. The financial firm that is helping the Wilson estate with the sale is not only concerned with the value of the franchise and making the arrangements for the sale they are also as part of their job seeking potential buyers. If there is a buyer who simply wants to raise their public profile by being a member of a special club regardless what the $$$ numbers indicate the buyer is going to make the buy. The most influential factor that will keep the Bills in the region is the lease deal. The people who negotiated it on behalf of the public did an exceptional job of leveraging their negotiating position to help buyers interested in the franchise keep it in the area for the near future. My preference is for Pegula to buy the franchise. He has clearly demonstrated by his already significant investments that he wants to keep this franchise anchored in this community. Things seem to be moving in a positive direction but we really don't know what is going on behind the scenes and who is jockeying for position to win the auction. With respect to the Clippers they have a horrible lease deal at Staples Center that limits their revenue potential. The lease expires next year. Don't be surprised if the franchise is moved to Anaheim with a much better lease and revenue deal. Getting rid of the stench of the Sterling ownership will also add value to the product. My point is very simple. Sometimes it is not about making more money. There are a select few that have so much of it it becomes meaningless. For some people it has more to do with joining an exclusive club and raising one's profile. That is the point I was trying to make in my response to Kirby Jackson. .I get what you are saying, what i was attempting to do was look at the possibility a little deeper than 'it could happen'. Yes it could happen, however i believe that the possibility of someone buying the team and keeping them in Buffalo is far greater. Not because i would like that to happen but because it makes much more sense financially to happen.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I think a lot of people in the Buffalo area feel this way. Mainly because for them, their enjoyment is based more on being at the event than the quality of the team. I think that it is more about civic pride. I can only speak for myself but the Bills have been engrained in me my whole life. It isn't just an entertainment outlet for me like a Bisons game. It is a part of a WNYer's identity. I would rather the team never win another game in WNY than win a Super Bowl elsewhere. That is not hyperbole either.
JohnC Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Someone is going to overspend for this team. They are valued at $800M or whatever but will sell well above that. That is the premium that people will pay. $1.25B has been the number in my head but I could see it going to $1.5B. There is a major player out there with money to spare (more than every group we have heard combined) but still won't be overspending. I applaud you for your knowledge on the economics of professional sports. However, in your responses toward my comments you haven't factored in the additional costs of a new facility or in a major upgrade of the current facility. If that is the case we are looking at a new owner's cost of nearly $2B or so depending on the level of support a new owner will be expected to contribute to a facility . I'm not trying to be a pessimist in this franchise auction that seems to be moving forward very rapidly. As you are well aware of there is a lot of maneuvering going around behind the scenes that could change the dynamic of the situation and result in an unexpected outcome. Very often in these high profile and very enormous and complicated transactions the deal is consummated not by the noisey suitors but with the discreet serious bidder. (Pegula fits that discription.) Edited June 17, 2014 by JohnC
PromoTheRobot Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 There's a certain irony in a solar panel plant being built in one of the cloudiest regions of the country. http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/cloudiest-cities.php #3 with a bullet!
CodeMonkey Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I think that it is more about civic pride. I can only speak for myself but the Bills have been engrained in me my whole life. It isn't just an entertainment outlet for me like a Bisons game. It is a part of a WNYer's identity. I would rather the team never win another game in WNY than win a Super Bowl elsewhere. That is not hyperbole either. I believe you, and strongly suspect you are nowhere near alone. I also understand what you mean, but civic pride in a team that loses every game every year is an interesting concept
JohnC Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I do. I believe the trust group has marching orders to try to keep the team in Buffalo. There is a mans legacy involved in this. Do you not lend any credence to that? I've said this before but half of the trust would accept the hedge fund manager type you speak of. The other half wont. Part of the other half owns the team and can accept a billion dollars and call it a day. How you do know what is in the trust? It has not been made public.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I believe you, and strongly suspect you are nowhere near alone. I also understand what you mean, but civic pride in a team that loses every game every year is an interesting concept I didn't realize we went 0-16 every season.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I applaud you for your knowledge on the economics of professional sports. However, in your responses toward my comments you haven't factored in the additional costs of a new facility or in a major upgrade of the current facility. If that is the case we are looking at a new owner's cost of nearly $2B or so depending on the level of support a new owner will be expected to contribute to a facility . I'm not trying to be a pessimist in this franchise auction that seems to be moving forward very rapidly. As you are well aware of there is a lot of maneuvering going around behind the scenes that could change the dynamic of the situation and result in an unexpected outcome. Very often in these high profile and very enormous and complicated transactions the deal is consummated not by the noisey suitors but with the discreet serious bidder. (Pegula fits that discription.) If you are looking for my thoughts on the financing of the stadium they can be found here: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/168129-to-shed-some-light-on-the-whole-new-stadium-thing/page__st__120. This process has been going on for a few years now behind the scenes. While it is moving fast to us it is right in line with what they were expecting at OBD. The process will be completed in the next few months and the team will be here. There are some real players involved both that have been made public and others that haven't. With that being said it is almost certain that the team will stay regardless of the buyer. I was about 75-25% that the team would remain when RW passed but I am up near about 98%.
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I think that it is more about civic pride. I can only speak for myself but the Bills have been engrained in me my whole life. It isn't just an entertainment outlet for me like a Bisons game. It is a part of a WNYer's identity. I would rather the team never win another game in WNY than win a Super Bowl elsewhere. That is not hyperbole either. I was watching the movie Fever Pitch the other day. If you haven't seen it, it's about the life of a Red Sox fan through their 2004 seasion. He makes this speech, and it reminds me of the Bills. That's right. I mean - why? Because they haven't won a World Series in a century or so? So what? They're here. Every April, they're here. At 1:05 or at 7:05, there is a game. And if it gets rained out, guess what? They make it up to you. Does anyone else in your life do that? The Red Sox don't get divorced. This is a real family. This is the family that's here for you. With the Bills, every Sunday, for three hours of my week, the worst thing that can happen to me is the Bills lose. All of my financial, health, work, problems are set aside. I spend quality time with my friends and family, win or lose.
K-9 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 How you do know what is in the trust? It has not been made public. That's true, we don't know the fine details. But the way it's structured with a 3/4 vote of approval required among the voting trustees, the punitive nature of the lease vis a vis someone looking to move them, and Mr. Wilson's vehement stance against franchise relocation, certainly seems to support the idea that a local owner is preferred. A prospective local owner certainly can't lowball the offer, but it's easy to believe a local owner that's in the ballpark has an edge. GO BILLS!!!
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