Kirby Jackson Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Well then they better really want it because it's going to take perhaps $1.5B to outbid El Pegaul, millions to try and break the lease, $400M if they do break the lease, then at least $2B to build a new NFL stadium in Toronto. Is $4B when all said and done too rich for them? PTR, you are right on. It is over at this point. An NFL team won't generate the revenue that the Clippers potentially will which is he a team won't go for that amount. A ridiculous bid on the Bills would be $1.5B and Pegula can certainly be a player at that level. I have kind of checked out on the subject over the last week because I don't think that we have much to worry about.
purple haze Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Sadly I doubt it is. They would be getting national tv dollars in Canada. That group is the elephant in the room. That said I believe there's something in the trust orders that gives preference to a hometown buyer. And while the two bean counters in the trust might push for the Canadian bid, the other two will offset them and remind that while Ralph was largely about money, he was also ALL against relocating teams. They take El Peguals money and call it a day. Viva El Pegual! TV revenue in the NFL is split 32 ways. Potential ownership groups in Canada aren't going to make extra money on a TV deal because they are in TO. That's why an NFL club isn't worth what the Clippers were. The NBA doesn't have the stipulation of sharing TV money like the NFL does. Edited June 17, 2014 by purple haze
K D Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 This just in...after the exciting win tonight, El Pegual has bought USA Soccer and will build them a brand new dome stadium in Hamilton
PromoTheRobot Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Sadly I doubt it is. They would be getting national tv dollars in Canada. That group is the elephant in the room. That said I believe there's something in the trust orders that gives preference to a hometown buyer. And while the two bean counters in the trust might push for the Canadian bid, the other two will offset them and remind that while Ralph was largely about money, he was also ALL against relocating teams. They take El Peguals money and call it a day. Viva El Pegual! The NFL already gets TV dollars from Canada. They show NFL games on CTV. DANGER, DANGER, BILLS FANS!! EL PEGUAL MIGHT RUN BILLS INTO THE GROUND LIKE HE DID THE SABRES!!! Thank you, Bucky Gleason, for warning us of this impending peril! Edited June 17, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
eball Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 So Tim Graham says the downside of Pegula bidding on the Bills it will draw bigger, richer, crazier bidders from out of town. Uhhhhh, okay, Tim. Wouldn't that happen whether Pegula does or doesn't bid? How did Pegula bidding become a negative? If there's a way to put a negative spin on something Bills fans might be excited about, Tim's your man! (I didn't bother to listen to the interview, by the way -- I consider Tim "blocked")
BringBackFergy Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 This just in...after the exciting win tonight, El Pegual has bought USA Soccer and will build them a brand new dome stadium in Hamilton Now this is great news.
transient Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) This just in...after the exciting win tonight, El Pegual has bought USA Soccer and will build them a brand new dome stadium in Hamilton But, given that he already owns the Bandits in the US, won't World Cup rules prohibit him from owning a team in Canada, unless he first moves the Amerks to Mexico so that none of the North American countries feel left out? Edited June 17, 2014 by transient
beerme1 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Well here that dome thing again. Let me just say if they build a dome, it is one of the dome's with a retractable roof!
nucci Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 The NFL already gets TV dollars from Canada. They show NFL games on CTV. DANGER, DANGER, BILLS FANS!! EL PEGUAL MIGHT RUN BILLS INTO THE GROUND LIKE HE DID THE SABRES!!! Thank you, Bucky Gleason, for warning us of this impending peril! Wouldn't be Buffalo if Gleason and Sullivan aren't whining like little babies.
May Day 10 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I actually agree with the Gleason article. Its not too negative. Basically says that he needs to learn from what happened with the Sabres since he took over.
JohnC Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) PTR, you are right on. It is over at this point. An NFL team won't generate the revenue that the Clippers potentially will which is he a team won't go for that amount. A ridiculous bid on the Bills would be $1.5B and Pegula can certainly be a player at that level. I have kind of checked out on the subject over the last week because I don't think that we have much to worry about. The Clippers' situation has little to do with being a rational business deal that was capable of being be a self-sustaining transaction, let alone be profitable. Ballmer, the prospective buyer, is worth $20 B or more. He wanted an NBA franchise and he was determined to procure one even if it made no business sense. There was one story circulating that he told Sterling's wife (seller of the franchise) that no matter what anyone else's bid was from he was willing to pay $200 M more. There is no possible way that the Clippers could generate enough money and adequate cash/flow to sustain a $2 B deal. So the solultion for for someone who is in the wealthy stratosphere is simply to sell off a small portion of his assets and buy the team with his own cash. My point is that for a very select few who are at the top of the financial pyramid some deals are not about money. It is about someone wanting to enter the exclusive ownership "club" even if it doesn't make any financial sense. Ballmer tentatively bought the Clippers for at least double the evaluation. Could that same scenario play out with the Bills? Absolutely. Do you think that the Wilson estate would scoff a wealthy hedge fund manager or Canadian buyer who wanted to pay double what the franchise would be worth out of loyalty to a region they don't reside in? Edited June 17, 2014 by JohnC
jimmy10 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 This just in...after the exciting win tonight, El Pegual has bought USA Soccer and will build them a brand new dome stadium in Hamilton You can't own a national soccer team without owning the whole country, silly. So La Peligula is going to buy the United States of America. And then move it to Hamilton, which was named after Former President Alexander Hamilton, so it's cool.
Utah John Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 The most important lesson Pegula can take from owning the Sabres to owning to Bills is: Don't put Darcy Regier in charge.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) The Clippers' situation has little to do with being a rational business deal that was capable of being be a self-sustaining transaction, let alone be profitable. Ballmer, the prospective buyer, is worth $20 B or more. He wanted an NBA franchise and he was determined to procure one even if it made no business sense. There was one story circulating that he told Sterling's wife (seller of the franchise) that no matter what anyone else's bid was from he was willing to pay $200 M more. There is no possible way that the Clippers could generate enough money and adequate cash/flow to sustain a $2 B deal. So the solultion for for someone who is in the wealthy stratosphere is simply to sell off a small portion of his assets and buy the team with his own cash. My point is that for a very select few who are at the top of the financial pyramid some deals are not about money. It is about someone wanting to enter the exclusive ownership "club" even if it doesn't make any financial sense. Ballmer tentatively bought the Clippers for at least double the evaluation. Could that same scenario play out with the Bills? Absolutely. Do you think that the Wilson estate would scoff a wealthy hedge fund manager or Canadian buyer who wanted to pay double what the franchise would be worth out of loyalty to a region they don't reside in? The Clippers was clearly not a great business decision but the local TV deal could be enormous (as are the Dodgers & Lakers deals). No one is EVER going to pay double what a team is worth. They will wait for the next team to hit the market. If someone way overspent, we are talking $1.5B for this NFL team and Pegula can be in at that level. The Bills price tag will not be all that close to the Clippers. While I do believe that there will be a premium paid (team valued at $800m or so) we are not talking $2B. Pegula being a cash buyer puts him at the top of the list. Edited June 17, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
atlbillsfan1975 Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 The Clippers' situation has little to do with being a rational business deal that was capable of being be a self-sustaining transaction, let alone be profitable. Ballmer, the prospective buyer, is worth $20 B or more. He wanted an NBA franchise and he was determined to procure one even if it made no business sense. There was one story circulating that he told Sterling's wife (seller of the franchise) that no matter what anyone else's bid was from he was willing to pay $200 M more. There is no possible way that the Clippers could generate enough money and adequate cash/flow to sustain a $2 B deal. So the solultion for for someone who is in the wealthy stratosphere is simply to sell off a small portion of his assets and buy the team with his own cash. My point is that for a very select few who are at the top of the financial pyramid some deals are not about money. It is about someone wanting to enter the exclusive ownership "club" even if it doesn't make any financial sense. Ballmer tentatively bought the Clippers for at least double the evaluation. Could that same scenario play out with the Bills? Absolutely. Do you think that the Wilson estate would scoff a wealthy hedge fund manager or Canadian buyer who wanted to pay double what the franchise would be worth out of loyalty to a region they don't reside in? You are correct it could happen. BUT, how many of these people exist in the world? Meet criteria to own a team and could get the blessing of the other owners. Not to mention as others have stated if someone paid $2.5-3 billion there is absolutely no way they will recover that investment back in years if ever. Put all that in the mix and remember one final thing, anyone with enough money to over pay by a billion or two most likely will not. They became wealthy by making prudent decisions.
JohnC Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 The Clippers was clearly not a great business decision but the local TV deal could be enormous (as are the Dodgers & Lakers deals). No one is EVER going to pay double what a team is worth. They will wait for the next team to hit the market. If someone way overspend a we are talking $1.5B for this NFL team and Pegula can be in at that level. The Bills price tag will not be all that close to the Clippers. While I do believe that there will be a premium paid (team valued at $800m or so) we are not talking $2B. Pegula being a cash buyer puts him at the top of the list. Where I disagree with you is on the issue of valuations and pricing. Outside analysts do their best in examining cash flows, debt servicing, potential revenue etc. It means little if someone doesn't care about buying a sports franchise for financial reasons. To put it simply a franchise is worth whatever anyone is willing to pay for it, whether it is a financially rational or not. The financial firm that is helping the Wilson estate with the sale is not only concerned with the value of the franchise and making the arrangements for the sale they are also as part of their job seeking potential buyers. If there is a buyer who simply wants to raise their public profile by being a member of a special club regardless what the $$$ numbers indicate the buyer is going to make the buy. The most influential factor that will keep the Bills in the region is the lease deal. The people who negotiated it on behalf of the public did an exceptional job of leveraging their negotiating position to help buyers interested in the franchise keep it in the area for the near future. My preference is for Pegula to buy the franchise. He has clearly demonstrated by his already significant investments that he wants to keep this franchise anchored in this community. Things seem to be moving in a positive direction but we really don't know what is going on behind the scenes and who is jockeying for position to win the auction. With respect to the Clippers they have a horrible lease deal at Staples Center that limits their revenue potential. The lease expires next year. Don't be surprised if the franchise is moved to Anaheim with a much better lease and revenue deal. Getting rid of the stench of the Sterling ownership will also add value to the product. You are correct it could happen. BUT, how many of these people exist in the world? Meet criteria to own a team and could get the blessing of the other owners. Not to mention as others have stated if someone paid $2.5-3 billion there is absolutely no way they will recover that investment back in years if ever. Put all that in the mix and remember one final thing, anyone with enough money to over pay by a billion or two most likely will not. They became wealthy by making prudent decisions. My point is very simple. Sometimes it is not about making more money. There are a select few that have so much of it it becomes meaningless. For some people it has more to do with joining an exclusive club and raising one's profile. That is the point I was trying to make in my response to Kirby Jackson.
GA BILLS FAN Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Our perception of a rational bid is based on a proper financial evaluation of the cash flows from the team over a defined period. If a super rich person wants something, it's completely rational to pay what it takes to get it. Case in point Ballmer's bid on Clippers. He wants to own NBA team, he pays whatever it takes to get one. It's a commodity that is extraordinarily scarce, no different than the prices some pieces of art sell for.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Where I disagree with you is on the issue of valuations and pricing. Outside analysts do their best in examining cash flows, debt servicing, potential revenue etc. It means little if someone doesn't care about buying a sports franchise for financial reasons. To put it simply a franchise is worth whatever anyone is willing to pay for it, whether it is a financially rational or not. The financial firm that is helping the Wilson estate with the sale is not only concerned with the value of the franchise and making the arrangements for the sale they are also as part of their job seeking potential buyers. If there is a buyer who simply wants to raise their public profile by being a member of a special club regardless what the $$$ numbers indicate the buyer is going to make the buy. The most influential factor that will keep the Bills in the region is the lease deal. The people who negotiated it on behalf of the public did an exceptional job of leveraging their negotiating position to help buyers interested in the franchise keep it in the area for the near future. My preference is for Pegula to buy the franchise. He has clearly demonstrated by his already significant investments that he wants to keep this franchise anchored in this community. Things seem to be moving in a positive direction but we really don't know what is going on behind the scenes and who is jockeying for position to win the auction. With respect to the Clippers they have a horrible lease deal at Staples Center that limits their revenue potential. The lease expires next year. Don't be surprised if the franchise is moved to Anaheim with a much better lease and revenue deal. Getting rid of the stench of the Sterling ownership will also add value to the product. My point is very simple. Sometimes it is not about making more money. There are a select few that have so much of it it becomes meaningless. For some people it has more to do with joining an exclusive club and raising one's profile. That is the point I was trying to make in my response to Kirby Jackson. I agree with a lot of what you said but Ballmer is the 1st person in history to buy something as a toy. Even then it can be argued (which you just did with Anaheim) that it is a long term investment. The NBA's international expansion (especially in China) have these franchises growing at alarming rates, that's not the case in the NFL. In addition, the revenue sharing is great for markets like Buffalo but a hinderance in LA. The Clippers TV revenue will be well above that of an NFL team. The Milwaukee Bucks TV revenue will not. Someone is going to overspend for this team. They are valued at $800M or whatever but will sell well above that. That is the premium that people will pay. $1.25B has been the number in my head but I could see it going to $1.5B. There is a major player out there with money to spare (more than every group we have heard combined) but still won't be overspending.
eball Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 You can't own a national soccer team without owning the whole country, silly. So La Peligula is going to buy the United States of America. And then move it to Hamilton, which was named after Former President Alexander Hamilton, so it's cool. I only found this funny the first fourteen times...don't you guys know when to quit? Oh and by the way -- will El Pegual still have to sell the Bandits?
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