Anti Redskins Ad Airing During Primetime

[EasternOHBillsFan]

It is irrelevant what the fans or cross section of americans think. What is relevant is what native americans think. That is the point. If it offensive to those which word is describing(and it appears to be if you have followed the discussion), it is offensive. If the word is offensive then having a name that uses that word is offensive regardless of how the fans, owner or cross-section of american think.

 

Offensive to a few, and not for everyone, is NOT a reason to be outraged. Nice try.

 

"N" word being used as a word of hate and derision- offensive to almost all African Americans.

 

Redskins being used by a football team as a name for decades - offensive to a few Native Americans.

Edited June 14, 2014 by BmoreBills

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

 

I don't see this as political correctness run amok. Names matter. Labels matter.

 

My dad fought in WWII. His generation used words like "Kraut" and "Jap" to refer to their enemies. I fought in Desert Storm where many of our soldiers called our enemy, "rag-heads." It's easier to kill an enemy you have first demeaned. None of us wanted to kill "Mo" who had a wife and three children waiting for his return back in Baghdad, but we didn't mind killing rag-heads.

 

It's not just political correctness to avoid using works like "Sp*c," "N*gger," K*ke," "Go*k," "Redskin" and so on. The more we use pejorative labels (and, yes, many find the "Redskin" name pejorative), the more likely we are to mistreat the group so labelled.

 

Mexican farm workers used to be called, "migrant workers." Now the people in favor of deporting them label them, "illegal aliens." This is no accidental change of verbiage. It's hard to be in favor of deporting a family of migrant workers. It's much easier to get behind deporting illegal aliens.

 

A significant number of Americans feel the word "Redskin" is demeaning and racist. As such it promotes certain negative behaviors and mindsets in certain people. America becomes a better place for everyone when the pejorative labeling stops. Change the name!

 

Confucius observed: "A superior man, in regard to what he does not know, shows a cautious reserve. He knows if names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success... Therefore a superior man considers it necessary that the names he uses may be spoken appropriately."

 

Bump. Great post.

[FireChan]

Of course the N-word is derogatory to an entire population. That isn't the point. The point is your example is irrelevant to the present debate. What people say to each other on an individual basis is not the same as an organization, a business, etc. using derogatory terms. If you wanted to provide an example of a business using the N-word in its name, then you would be providing an example that is relevant. And you would probably agree that it shouldn't be used - much like the term "Redskins" shouldn't be used. I really don't think I should have to provide any more reasons or any further explanation. It really is pretty obvious.

 

But why is a business worse? Is it because they are making money? Why is it worse?

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

But why is a business worse? Is it because they are making money? Why is it worse?

 

No. It is because they are a role model. Well, they should be. They have the ear of the people and that should be used effectively to better society... Not just use society for what its worth.

 

Sorry. I am idealistic.

[Deranged Rhino]

Yes it does. Hold on though, I have something that's been bugging me.

No, it doesn't. I promise.

 

Are you insinuating I shouldn't defend a team I don't root for? Under that logic, you shouldn't defend Native Americans because you aren't one.

 

I didn't say that you shouldn't defend a team you're not a fan of, I said it's amazing how much energy you're expending on a team you don't care about. It's the name of a team, that's all. It's not geopolitics.

 

Now onto the cloudiness of this debate.

 

All across America, a distinct population of blacks use the N-word to each other in a greeting or companionship way. How can someone be alright with that, yet condemn Snyder with regards to the Redskins name?

 

I'll break it down.

 

-both have negative connotations

-both are used with an intent completely separate from their historic context

-both intents are complimentary or friendly

 

So this begs the question, what is different? For one, I suppose you could say that Snyder is white. But does that mean if he was a Native, the name would be fine? Is that how words work, they depend on the color of the speaker's skin? Sounds like racism to me.

 

Secondly, you could say that Snyder owns a business with the name, and that somehow makes it worse. So owning a business called the Washington Ni**** is objectively worse than saying Ni**** on the street? How so?

 

And thirdly, Rocky's favorite defense, "it's in our nation's capital." A laughable point. As if the "Seattle Redskins" would be less offensive or abhorrent. I guess taking offense is based off geography.

Yup, just like I thought. Completely tangential and irrelevant to this issue.

 

Of course the N-word is derogatory to an entire population. That isn't the point. The point is your example is irrelevant to the present debate. What people say to each other on an individual basis is not the same as an organization, a business, etc. using derogatory terms. If you wanted to provide an example of a business using the N-word in its name, then you would be providing an example that is relevant. And you would probably agree that it shouldn't be used - much like the term "Redskins" shouldn't be used. I really don't think I should have to provide any more reasons or any further explanation. It really is pretty obvious.

It's not obvious to Chan because he thinks this is about his world view and his freedoms.

 

Which have nothing to do with this issue at all.

 

But why is a business worse? Is it because they are making money? Why is it worse?

It's not better or worse, it's completely different. The only one comparing the two scenarios is you and it's a false comparison to make.

Edited June 14, 2014 by GreggyT

[Captain Caveman]

But why is a business worse? Is it because they are making money? Why is it worse?

 

You're making the argument of my friend's four year old, when told she can't do something, she brings up her friends who are allowed to do much "worse".

 

This is something that warrants being considered on its own merits, without false comparisons and diversions such as this.

[billsfan1959]

Offensive to a few, and not for everyone, is NOT a reason to be outraged. Nice try.

 

"N" word being used as a word of hate and derision- offensive to almost all African Americans.

 

Redskins being used by a football team as a name for decades - offensive to a few Native Americans.

 

1. I think the use of the word "outraged" is a bit off the mark here. There might be some people who are outraged, maybe Native Americans, in which case I think they have that right. However, I believe that most of us who feel the name should be changed, and who are not Native Americans, feel that way, not out of a sense of outrage, but, rather out of a sense of decency and respect. In a civilized society, particularly one whose foundation is predicated upon the rights of the individual, that really ought to be enough of a reason.

 

2. This particular issue aside, I have a question about your philosophy: Do you honestly believe that offensive behavior to a few is not a reason for others to find it wrong, even to the point of outrage, and want it stopped, as long as the vast majority do not find it offensive?

Edited June 14, 2014 by billsfan1959

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Offensive to a few, and not for everyone, is NOT a reason to be outraged. Nice try.

 

"N" word being used as a word of hate and derision- offensive to almost all African Americans.

 

Redskins being used by a football team as a name for decades - offensive to a few Native Americans.

 

How do you know the numbers of Native Americans offended? Apparently it is enough that their chosen leaders have spent capital and effort to let many people know they are offended by the usage of the word. That is the purpose of the ad, to inform that they find the word offensive.

 

And as I said, whether others find it offensive or not does not matter, it only matters if Native Americans find it to be so(and it appears they do). What Caucasians, African Americas, Hispanics or any other people outside of Native Americans think really does not apply.

Edited June 15, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[Dorkington]

 

 

 

I don't see this as political correctness run amok. Names matter. Labels matter.

 

My dad fought in WWII. His generation used words like "Kraut" and "Jap" to refer to their enemies. I fought in Desert Storm where many of our soldiers called our enemy, "rag-heads." It's easier to kill an enemy you have first demeaned. None of us wanted to kill "Mo" who had a wife and three children waiting for his return back in Baghdad, but we didn't mind killing rag-heads.

 

It's not just political correctness to avoid using works like "Sp*c," "N*gger," K*ke," "Go*k," "Redskin" and so on. The more we use pejorative labels (and, yes, many find the "Redskin" name pejorative), the more likely we are to mistreat the group so labelled.

 

Mexican farm workers used to be called, "migrant workers." Now the people in favor of deporting them label them, "illegal aliens." This is no accidental change of verbiage. It's hard to be in favor of deporting a family of migrant workers. It's much easier to get behind deporting illegal aliens.

 

A significant number of Americans feel the word "Redskin" is demeaning and racist. As such it promotes certain negative behaviors and mindsets in certain people. America becomes a better place for everyone when the pejorative labeling stops. Change the name!

 

Confucius observed: "A superior man, in regard to what he does not know, shows a cautious reserve. He knows if names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success... Therefore a superior man considers it necessary that the names he uses may be spoken appropriately."

 

Fantastic post.

[machine gun kelly]

I've read through some of this thread, and I have no intention of offending anyone by using racial epithets. I just don't see Snyder changing the name.

 

Most Redskins fans I know are not offended by their name. If the majority of tribes are offended, then take Snyder to court for libel. See what happens. This just seems like an opportunity for politically motivated people to say they are offended.

 

Why at age 46 have I not heard one word by anyone my whole life about how offensive the name Redskins. When they kicked the crap out of us in the SB, I never heard one word of how offensive is the name,

 

Again, i am not favor of words like N etc. I think it's silly when people of a particular race then use that same offensive word to friends, but it's their choice. Just like it's my choice not to ever use words like that with others and not allow my children to do the same.

 

Lastly, I'll restate a private owner with a team name for half a century will not change unless forced by the courts which I doubt, or if he loses tickets and other sales. If everyone in DC really wants the name changed, then don't go to the games. That's how fans can communicate their feelings.

[FireChan]

You're making the argument of my friend's four year old, when told she can't do something, she brings up her friends who are allowed to do much "worse".

 

This is something that warrants being considered on its own merits, without false comparisons and diversions such as this.

 

I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking a question. Why is the N-word used between people different than Redskins? Number of offended within earshot? What is the difference?

 

No, it doesn't. I promise.

 

 

 

I didn't say that you shouldn't defend a team you're not a fan of, I said it's amazing how much energy you're expending on a team you don't care about. It's the name of a team, that's all. It's not geopolitics.

 

 

Yup, just like I thought. Completely tangential and irrelevant to this issue.

 

 

It's not obvious to Chan because he thinks this is about his world view and his freedoms.

 

Which have nothing to do with this issue at all.

 

 

It's not better or worse, it's completely different. The only one comparing the two scenarios is you and it's a false comparison to make.

 

So what are your feelings on the common use of the N-word?

[Direhard Fan]

Shame people think they can tell someone else what to do. With all the gambling money they should buy the team and name it what they want. Most reservations are dirt poor. And they worry about a name?

[SRQ_BillsFan]

I know many people who find the term African America offensive because they have never been to Africa and their families have been in North America for many generations. More than many so called simply Americans.

 

Why do people feel this term is ok, is it simply because it use was not meant to offend? That is the exact stance being used by the Washington NFL team.

 

And how many people need to be offended by the term African American as a derogatory slur before the rest of us our convinced that it is and should not be used. I am willing to bet I know people that find the term just as insulting as the use of Redskins.

 

.

[Hplarrm]

I know many people who find the term African America offensive because they have never been to Africa and their families have been in North America for many generations. More than many so called simply Americans.

 

Why do people feel this term is ok, is it simply because it use was not meant to offend? That is the exact stance being used by the Washington NFL team.

 

And how many people need to be offended by the term African American as a derogatory slur before the rest of us our convinced that it is and should not be used. I am willing to bet I know people that find the term just as insulting as the use of Redskins.

 

.

So you are saying that if the new owner of the Bills should decide to rename the team the Buffalo African-Americans reaction s team decided to call itself the reaction should be exactly the same as the reaction to the name the Redskins?

 

I think you proved the point. Most would find the new Bills name to be stupid at best and offensive to many.

 

This is true of the Redskin name as well.

[Deranged Rhino]

Why at age 46 have I not heard one word by anyone my whole life about how offensive the name Redskins.

 

Gee, I wonder why this is. Could it be because as a nation we've made it just a little bit difficult for Native Americans to voice their opinions? I think you need to do a bit of homework before you act surprised about this. Or I guess a better way to put it, just because you never heard anything doesn't mean there weren't people offended back in the day.

 

Which is why the people who are arguing to protect the tradition of a name are so out of touch with the reality of the situation. You hide behind history without understanding the history you're hiding behind.

 

I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking a question.

 

You're asking an irrelevant question purposefully to cloud the issue.

 

So what are your feelings on the common use of the N-word?

 

Again, irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges when you should be comparing apples to apples.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

So you are saying that if the new owner of the Bills should decide to rename the team the Buffalo African-Americans reaction s team decided to call itself the reaction should be exactly the same as the reaction to the name the Redskins?

 

I think you proved the point. Most would find the new Bills name to be stupid at best and offensive to many.

 

This is true of the Redskin name as well.

 

 

no that is not in anyway what I was implying.

[boyst]

When we get tired of the Redskins issue in the NFL can we rehash the Incognito/Martin issue? I am tired always finding new dramatized crap to worry about. I guess maybe the nuke being dropped over NC might be good fodder, too.

[26CornerBlitz]

When we get tired of the Redskins issue in the NFL can we rehash the Incognito/Martin issue? I am tired always finding new dramatized crap to worry about. I guess maybe the nuke being dropped over NC might be good fodder, too.

Let's get a warrant to arrest the person who forced you to click on the thread and post at gunpoint.

[FireChan]

Gee, I wonder why this is. Could it be because as a nation we've made it just a little bit difficult for Native Americans to voice their opinions? I think you need to do a bit of homework before you act surprised about this. Or I guess a better way to put it, just because you never heard anything doesn't mean there weren't people offended back in the day.

 

Which is why the people who are arguing to protect the tradition of a name are so out of touch with the reality of the situation. You hide behind history without understanding the history you're hiding behind.

 

 

 

You're asking an irrelevant question purposefully to cloud the issue.

 

 

 

Again, irrelevant. You're comparing apples to oranges when you should be comparing apples to apples.

 

 

 

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the voice of the people who don't find the name offensive. Everyone should read the contempt and vile nature of this post and ask themselves if they want to be on Diehard Fan's side of things, or if they'd rather, you know, try to be a decent human being.

 

Why won't you just answer the question?

[Deranged Rhino]

When we get tired of the Redskins issue in the NFL can we rehash the Incognito/Martin issue? I am tired always finding new dramatized crap to worry about. I guess maybe the nuke being dropped over NC might be good fodder, too.

 

The only people who are dramatic about this issue are the ones hellbent on keeping the name the same.

 

Why won't you just answer the question?

 

Because it's completely irrelevant to whether or not the Snyder should change the name of the franchise. Individual usage of the word is not germane to the conversation. Ask a question that actually fits into this topic, or ask that question in PPP in its own thread and I'll happily oblige.