Peter Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 ...and would be fought in Erie County Court. There's a better chance of winning powerball than that court case. This. ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA BILLS FAN Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Let me offer another angle in this argument -- I've asked before, as have others, why hasn't the terms of the trust been made public ? The typical answer I get is that it isn't in the best interest of the trustees to share that information. Brandon recently said on GR, "I'm not at liberty to discuss it". So, if the trust simply said, "sell to the highest bidder"; why wouldn't that have been made public, there would be no harm in informing all bidders, come high or go home, would there ? So, MAYBE, the trust actually places some conditions that would indeed limit parties, i.e. conditions to keep team here or other factors. What I'm trying to get at is that a lot of the debate on this thread is a result of lack of knowledge of what the trust says or doesn't say. Maybe the secrecy of what's in it, lies in the fact that there is actually something in it that limits movement or relocation. Thoughts ? -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Let me offer another angle in this argument -- I've asked before, as have others, why hasn't the terms of the trust been made public ? The typical answer I get is that it isn't in the best interest of the trustees to share that information. Brandon recently said on GR, "I'm not at liberty to discuss it". So, if the trust simply said, "sell to the highest bidder"; why wouldn't that have been made public, there would be no harm in informing all bidders, come high or go home, would there ? So, MAYBE, the trust actually places some conditions that would indeed limit parties, i.e. conditions to keep team here or other factors. What I'm trying to get at is that a lot of the debate on this thread is a result of lack of knowledge of what the trust says or doesn't say. Maybe the secrecy of what's in it, lies in the fact that there is actually something in it that limits movement or relocation. Thoughts ? -- One reason trusts are created is to maintain confidentiality. Wills frequently end up in probate court and become public. Trusts usually don't. So that is one possible reason the trust has not been made public, although portions of it have been leaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Biggest overall concern to me is that a new owner buys the Bills with the intention of eventually moving the team but publicly is non-committal about keeping the Bills in Buffalo or states that he will keep the team in Buffalo if a new stadium is built, knowing that unless he contributes money towards the new stadium the likelihood of the state/county funding the entire cost is about zero. I think in this scenario the NFL would approve the relocation of the Bills (sometime in the future), particularly since Goodell has been clear about the Bills needing a new stadium to remain viable over the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Biggest overall concern to me is that a new owner buys the Bills with the intention of eventually moving the team but publicly is non-committal about keeping the Bills in Buffalo or states that he will keep the team in Buffalo if a new stadium is built, knowing that unless he contributes money towards the new stadium the likelihood of the state/county funding the entire cost is about zero. I think in this scenario the NFL would approve the relocation of the Bills (sometime in the future), particularly since Goodell has been clear about the Bills needing a new stadium to remain viable over the long term. I do have a hunch that taxpayers, etc will be paying for any new stadium, not the new owner. It may take that to sweeten the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA BILLS FAN Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) I read an article that said the trustees have to make their decision based on: (1) amount of bid; and (2) ability to get league approval. So, if I am a trustee exercising my fiduciary duty, I would take the highest bids to the league and see which ones would get approved. If the Rogers bid is the highest and it appears would receive approval by the league, I think the trustees would have to approve it, unfortunately. I read that as well, but, again, there isn't anything in those 2 conditions that would create an issue or harm to the trustees if it were made public, I still think there has to be more in the trust for the trustees to keep it a secret, or maybe as "mannc" pointed out, they are just kept confidential. Edited June 8, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I do have a hunch that taxpayers, etc will be paying for any new stadium, not the new owner. It may take that to sweeten the pot. right, wrong or indifferent, this is the reality. Cuomo isn't spending $300k to conduct a stadium location feasibility analysis for any other purposes than 1) to know what sites would cost, 2) to present a proposed stadium with potential costs (I have it from a good source he will show a potential stadium design at some point), and 3) and to put it out there to potential bidders that the state appears to be interested in funding with the sole purpose of having interested buyers engage with government prior to bidding, which I am sure has already happened. If the state's position, as well as county's, was that under no circumstances would the govts support a new stadium financially, they would waste their time with this expensive endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRQ_BillsFan Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 no. the $400 million is not a buyout. it is in place only if a court fails to grant an injunction on relocation. that means, the Bills future would be tied up in court the minute any new ownership group that has previously expressed an intent on relocating the franchise outside of WNY. should the prospective ownership group then be approved AND pass the legal hurdle, it would then be on the hook to paying the $400 million penalty. the court case would come first. the penalty is the final option. jw that could well happen. however, the argument can and will be made that the Bills former ownership signed off on this agreement and considered it to be fair, which would result in a 3 (state, county and franchise) against 1 (new owners) argument. jw Thank jw, not sure why people want to make this seem as it is a standard photocopy lease like they signed on their last apartment. The NFL has also made it tougher to move a team so an owner can not just move it on his own without league approval. And to bring things back to the lease, not only was it signed by the Bills, it was also signed by the NFL. It would be a huge shock to see it easily broken as some on here seem to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRQ_BillsFan Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Biggest overall concern to me is that a new owner buys the Bills with the intention of eventually moving the team but publicly is non-committal about keeping the Bills in Buffalo or states that he will keep the team in Buffalo if a new stadium is built, knowing that unless he contributes money towards the new stadium the likelihood of the state/county funding the entire cost is about zero. I think in this scenario the NFL would approve the relocation of the Bills (sometime in the future), particularly since Goodell has been clear about the Bills needing a new stadium to remain viable over the long term. The owner would need to negotiate in good faith. Then the NFL tries to mediate. While they could allow this stance, I don't think that is likely. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The NFL would fold in one minute for fear of a lawsuit from a Canadian group that bought the Bills. They'd let them trample the lease and everything else and Jerry Jones will be leading the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) I think you are making a different point than what I was discussing. I was talking about the county seeking to enjoin the team from re-locating early, after the new ownership is in place. I have no idea what cuomo might try to do to stop the sale, or the NFL from approving a sale, to Rogers or anyone else who might eventually move the team. the state is as much a part of the lease agreement as Erie County. and i have no clue what you mean by "enjoin." jw When the Bills leave they are doing it in the middle of the night like the old Baltimore franchise to Indy. It will be over before it starts, and everyone here will be left sputtering with impotent rage. That is the way I see it being done. then whatever owner did that, will deal with the consequences afterwards, like Modell did. it won't happen. gawd. jw Okay; thanks. I think I understand that point. If the NFL approves the sale to Rogers with the understanding that he will move the team at some point, I am not sure whether the league would really care that there is litigation over whether the move could happen immediately (ie, Rogers tries to pay the buy out), or in 2020 (lease expires). please stop posting on this topic. please. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. the NFL won't have an opportunity to approve Rogers until after a court case over the non-relocation clause. any NFL approval would HAVE to become AFTER the court case. and the NFL would certainly have a vested interested in the court case because it doesn't exactly enjoy the negative publicity that could potentially come out of the case. the process would be extensively delayed, which wouldn't do any good to the NFL or Wilson's estate. the uncertainty the court case would generate wouldn't be good for anyone either. and the NFL would certainly be leery of anyone in the case attempting to pry open its private books. the threat of a court case almost certainly prevents anyone from going after the team with the intention of relocating it before 2020. and it certainly rules out anyone who has publicly mentioned an intent of wanting to relocate the team at all. and anyone seeking relocation of the franchise would require two separate votes. one regarding ownership, the second would be a separate one regarding relocation. i don't know how else to make myself clear here except to reiterate that: IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. jw I told people from very beginning there was a chance a buyer would just pay the $400mm and move the team. Math is simple, for example: If buyer thinks bills are worth $1.7b somewhere else, they'd be willing to pay 1.7-0.4 = $1.3B If $1.3B is more than the highest bid from buffalo buyer, trust has an obligation to sell to the $1.3B bidder. where's the bash-head emoticon? really, where is it? a prospective buyer doesn't not merely have the right to plunk down $400 million and wash his hands of the Bills in Buffalo. it's NOT a buyout. it's a last-resource penalty. jw Edited June 8, 2014 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSNBDSC Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 the state is as much a part of the lease agreement as Erie County. and i have no clue what you mean by "enjoin." jw it won't happen. gawd. jw please stop posting on this topic. please. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. the NFL won't have an opportunity to approve Rogers until after a court case over the non-relocation clause. any NFL approval would HAVE to become AFTER the court case. and the NFL would certainly have a vested interested in the court case because it doesn't exactly enjoy the negative publicity that could potentially come out of the case. the process would be extensively delayed, which wouldn't do any good to the NFL or Wilson's estate. the uncertainty the court case would generate wouldn't be good for anyone either. and the NFL would certainly be leery of anyone in the case attempting to pry open its private books. the threat of a court case almost certainly prevents anyone from going after the team with the intention of relocating it before 2020. and it certainly rules out anyone who has publicly mentioned an intent of wanting to relocate the team at all. and anyone seeking relocation of the franchise would require two separate votes. one regarding ownership, the second would be a separate one regarding relocation. i don't know how else to make myself clear here except to reiterate that: IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. jw Thank you John Stayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 if you really think it is impossible for the team to just move and deal with the legal after the fact, you are quite naive. It has happened, it can happen again. Heck they can move the team and simply pay the lease amount per annum worst comes to worst. It is a pipe dream that that lease can really bind the Bills to Buffalo. that said, I have great hopes things will work out and the Bills can be in WNY for the next few years or longer. my gawd, part II. there is no chance of this happening. none. zero. nil. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 the state is as much a part of the lease agreement as Erie County. and i have no clue what you mean by "enjoin." jw it won't happen. gawd. jw please stop posting on this topic. please. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. the NFL won't have an opportunity to approve Rogers until after a court case over the non-relocation clause. any NFL approval would HAVE to become AFTER the court case. and the NFL would certainly have a vested interested in the court case because it doesn't exactly enjoy the negative publicity that could potentially come out of the case. the process would be extensively delayed, which wouldn't do any good to the NFL or Wilson's estate. the uncertainty the court case would generate wouldn't be good for anyone either. and the NFL would certainly be leery of anyone in the case attempting to pry open its private books. the threat of a court case almost certainly prevents anyone from going after the team with the intention of relocating it before 2020. and it certainly rules out anyone who has publicly mentioned an intent of wanting to relocate the team at all. and anyone seeking relocation of the franchise would require two separate votes. one regarding ownership, the second would be a separate one regarding relocation. i don't know how else to make myself clear here except to reiterate that: IT'S NOT A BUYOUT. jw where's the bash-head emoticon? really, where is it? a prospective buyer doesn't not merely have the right to plunk down $400 million and wash his hands of the Bills in Buffalo. it's NOT a buyout. it's a last-resource penalty. jw Can you explain this buyout thing to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Pretty sure Ralph said on many occasions that the team would sell to the highest bidder when he died. never to my knowledge. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 never to my knowledge. jw Just throw in the towel JW. I finally did a few pages ago (although I have reappeared to recommend you do the same). The doomsday preppers will continue to ignore facts. EJ Manuel is as likely to fly as someone is to move this team before 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Just throw in the towel JW. I finally did a few pages ago (although I have reappeared to recommend you do the same). The doomsday preppers will continue to ignore facts. EJ Manuel is as likely to fly as someone is to move this team before 2020. yep. it's shocking how ignorance to facts has become chic these days. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 But what if they just buyout the lease? Ever consider that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Just throw in the towel JW. I finally did a few pages ago (although I have reappeared to recommend you do the same). The doomsday preppers will continue to ignore facts. EJ Manuel is as likely to fly as someone is to move this team before 2020. If Manuel were to develop the ability to fly, rest assured that many on this board would complain about his lack of footwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 If Manuel were to develop the ability to fly, rest assured that many on this board would complain about his lack of footwork. He can't land on two feet at the same time. Ever notice that? Sure, he can fly. But he doesn't always land correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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