T master Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Can we please stop saying dome, it's fixed roof or retractable roof, a dome is out of date. That being said, I'm wondering how Buffalo the 4th poorest city is going to build a Billion dollar Stadium. Moving the Stadium closer to Rochester doesn't help much, Rochester is the 3rd poorest city in the USA. If NYC would be left to float out into the ocean & the rest of NY wasn't taxed to death to keep the black hole a float Rochester, Buffalo, & the rest of the state would be in much higher standings over all in those ratings !! Just look at the brand new venues that have been built & OK'd by the state in the city in the recent past Barkley Center, Yankee Stadium, Mets stadium . But hey lets give the Bills a new home (the only true NY /NFL football team) AW HELL NO !! Just saying ... Edited June 6, 2014 by T master
PromoTheRobot Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) If NYC would be left to float out into the ocean & the rest of NY wasn't taxed to death to keep the black hole a float Rochester, Buffalo, & the rest of the state would be in much higher standings over all in those ratings !! Just look at the brand new venues that have been built & OK'd by the state in the city in the recent past Barkley Center, Yankee Stadium, Mets stadium . But hey lets give the Bills a new home (the only true NY /NFL football team) AW HELL NO !! Just saying ... This is false. NYC money flows upstate. http://www.empirecen...ds-in-new-york/ New York’s state revenues are disproportionately generated in New York City and its suburbs, resulting in a net transfer of income to upstate, according to a report issued today by the Nelson A. Rockefeller Institute of Government. Meanwhile, a study by the Independent Budget Office (IBO) shows that “tax effort” is also highest downstate, especially in the city. Edited June 6, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
PromoTheRobot Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 So about 1 family in 4 can't afford the basics of life food, clothing, shelter and utilities how are they goijng to afford tickets,a new stadium personal seat licenses ? And yet all those other poor cities have NFL teams with new stadiums. You are actually making the argument for PSL's. Why tax poorer people for a stadium the richer ones will use?
stuckinny Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 I don't know which side I take, I look at the NCAA and stadiums like the Horseshoe, the U of MIchigan satdium, Notre Dame stadium, FLorida State, Clemson, etc. all historic fields without some creature features and no talk of replacing them. I wish the ralph was more estitically pleasing so maybe a retro fit would be more appropriate than just the concrete bowl it is! I think that is the the biggest push for a new stadium, the ralph is nothing special to look at.
May Day 10 Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 I think RWS is cool, and getting cooler as all the other stadiums are losing character. Its a matter of time where it becomes a destination for football fans from everywhere. Every single person from out of town (mostly New England and NYC) I take to a game goes on and on about how amazing the experience is. I think a retrofit should absolutely be in play. A huge investment should be made in playing surface. Go to grass. Players seem to hate the injury risk here.
Ted William's frozen head Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 Did the Chiefs and Packers play somewhere else while their retro fits occurred? I don't remember. I do remember the Bears playing at Illinois for at least a season. Your point on the culture change is one that had not occured to me...and it does make sense to me. (even if i love the current culture) But great points all around I believe that Arrowhead,and The Ralph were built by the same construction company. Arrowhead was/is being retrofitted. Why not the Bill's Stadium? Structural reports CAN be smoke,and mirrors to conform to the desires of who commissioned the report. It's easy to figure out that my feelings are that we have a perfectly good facility, and I can't/won't pay a potential $10K in PSL's. Ticket prices are sure to skyrocket next year as it stands...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 I believe that Arrowhead,and The Ralph were built by the same construction company. Arrowhead was/is being retrofitted. Why not the Bill's Stadium? Structural reports CAN be smoke,and mirrors to conform to the desires of who commissioned the report. It's easy to figure out that my feelings are that we have a perfectly good facility, and I can't/won't pay a potential $10K in PSL's. Ticket prices are sure to skyrocket next year as it stands... The facility will be changing one way or another. The Bills cannot continue to operate in the manner that they currently do and compete. PSLs are a much better for the Bills than raising the ticket prices. That money is not shared which is why teams do it that way.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted June 6, 2014 Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Orlando Florida is spending $200 million dollars to renovate the Citrus Bowl and they have no team that plays there week in and week out. They do however host the Florida Classic, The State of Florida high school football championship (8 divisions), The Russell Athletic bowl, and The Capital One Bowl. The University of Central Florida used to play there but now has its own 45,000 seat stadium on campus which they built for 65 million dollars in 2007. Have prices gone up that much in 7 years that 25,000 more seats and a roof is almost 900 million more? Go figure. I have seen pictures of this and it seems to me people should be looking and asking why wouldn't we do this with the money ... even at 50% more than the Citrus renovation it seems like a far better value then a brand new stadium. It seems like a company could even provide a route for a dome either with a retro or a future feature. I am not advocating for either a new stadium or retrofit of The Ralph just that all avenues actually be looked at. I am not sure why the NFL needs a "new" stadium per se vs a retrofit that would provide the amenities similar to that of a new build. Edited June 6, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso
simpleman Posted June 6, 2014 Author Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) I am not an engineer or an architect. I wonder that if the problem is with the deterioration of the upper decks, could there could be a three or 4 year plan where the decks could be replaced one at a time over a few seasons during the off season without relocation of games? You have from April to September for construction and January to April for demolition. Couldn't the reconstruction of the upper decks already include the structural support for a roof to be added later, if they wanted to after the reconstruction portion was done? We realistically don't need more than 65,000 + seats. Maybe the replacement could include less seats and more suites and even enclosed sections for fans who are willing to pay a premium for them (possibly with PSL income for them). The team owner could generate more income with less actual bodies by upgrading those upscale facilities with better food, drink and other premium amenities rather than going after the typical lower income fans. There must be some way to "upgrade" your fan base to higher income levels, not just to the very high end of the really expensive luxury suites and boxes of old, but a median step up. While WNY may be lacking in Fortune 500 corporate buyers and ultra rich, there are still a lot of well off individuals like doctors and others that could afford a new median type of amenity upgrade. Edited June 6, 2014 by simpleman
Ted William's frozen head Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 The facility will be changing one way or another. The Bills cannot continue to operate in the manner that they currently do and compete. PSLs are a much better for the Bills than raising the ticket prices. That money is not shared which is why teams do it that way. Are you a season ticket holder?
Buffaloed in Pa Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Who cares ? It will last until the new one is built. Build one or your gone. This is Goodell`s message.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Are you a season ticket holder? I was when I was in WNY. I haven't been since I moved to NOLA in 2007. My whole family has them though. PSLs vs. increasing ticket prices is because of the way that the revenue is shared. The Bills would rather $1000 PSL payment and a $500 season ticket than a $1500 season ticket. That was the point that I was making. Edited June 7, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
vorpma Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Over the last 13-14 years? My answer: The performance of the team. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
HalftimeAdjustment Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Excuse me you are incorrect. Yesterday Channel 2, 4 and 7 all reported that 26% of city of Buffalo resident live below the poverty level. Here are the links. Detroit was ranked 1, Cleveland 2nd and Rochester 3rd, and Buffalo 4th. http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/local/buffalo/2014/06/05/buffalo-is-fourth-poorest-city/10037289/ http://wivb.com/2014/06/05/buffalo-is-4th-poorest-city-in-nation/ http://www.wkbw.com/news/Buffalo-Ranked-4th-Poorest-City-in-the-US-262035401.html So about 1 family in 4 can't afford the basics of life food, clothing, shelter and utilities how are they goijng to afford tickets,a new stadium personal seat licenses ? The wealth comes significantly from people living outside the city limits so this study is a bit misleading. The city is relatively small population wise. Do you believe 26% of people in the suburbs live below the poverty line? I was when I was in WNY. I haven't been since I moved to NOLA in 2007. My whole family has them though. PSLs vs. increasing ticket prices is because of the way that the revenue is shared. The Bills would rather $1000 PSL payment and a $500 season ticket than a $1500 season ticket. That was the point that I was making. Thanks. To everyone else who says the market can't afford PSLs... If the team overprices them, they won't sell, and the price will come down until it hits the market value. As long as taxpayers are not on the hook for PSL sale failure what's the issue? As long as they are locked in for a longer period let them try to raise revenue. If everyone who says the area is too poor is right they will fail. However if we give up without trying and the team moves failure is guaranteed. If the team ends up moving I believe all the taxpayers will get in return is $28M.
3rdand12 Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) I added the word structural to the title, since like other threads about a stadium, the conversation always devolves into a discussion about promoting the revitalization of a specific area around the stadium. This thread is suppose to be about what is wrong with the stadium itself, not about the stadium becoming an economic stimulus for a particular location. I have heard only two serious issues about the stadium in the thread. The fact that the concourses are too narrow, and that the upper decks are soon going to require major structural renovations due to age related deterioration. Someone also mentioned the desire that the stadium have a retractable roof, but it sounds more like a desire than a need. Does anyone have a link to an article that tells exactly what the NFL requirements are for a football stadium, and why the stadium will not be able to meet the standards of those requirements now or in the next decade? Good- ell.First he said he was all about keeping Bills in WNY. Very nice after Mr Wilson passed. Then a after a couple weeks he said there must be a new stadium to keep the team viable. doodle wanker !!! If they want to develop revenue , develop the area surrounding the stadium. Do they just want to create jobs ? A full blown reno as mentioned ( upper decks ) would do that too . So to my point the Bills need the swirling winds of the Lake to keep it interesting and an advantage (in my mind ) . But the reason and this reallly is my point this time , they truly need to move the stadium because its on hallowed ground and thats why the Bills are cursed. That counts for structural right ? It's CURSED! dammit i skipped over that post M N !!! so you saw it too ? Edited June 7, 2014 by 3rdand12
BuffaloFan68 Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Step 1 - Move training camp back to Fredonia! We haven't made the play-offs since leaving. Step 2 - Build a new stadium next to the Falls. It should have a retractable roof for other use year around.
machine gun kelly Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Did you have a "brain freeze" you said it twice? No it's just Jimmy from Goodfellas "get the papas, get the papas"
Kirby Jackson Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Step 1 - Move training camp back to Fredonia! We haven't made the play-offs since leaving. Step 2 - Build a new stadium next to the Falls. It should have a retractable roof for other use year around. There's a better chance of me starting at QB than there is training camp going from Rochester to Fredonia (as much as I loved it as a kid).
Ted William's frozen head Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 I was when I was in WNY. I haven't been since I moved to NOLA in 2007. My whole family has them though. PSLs vs. increasing ticket prices is because of the way that the revenue is shared. The Bills would rather $1000 PSL payment and a $500 season ticket than a $1500 season ticket. That was the point that I was making. I'd be OK with a $1000 PSL, but that simply isn't going to happen. I'm five years from retirement. My financial plan does not include giving some Billionaire 10 grand.
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