Player to make the leap?

[YoloinOhio]

Not sure how much more clear I can be. I have no interest in the Bills having a Daltonesque QB. He is surrounded by talent and he is unable to do enough to win against the best teams. Have you heard rumblings about Cincinnati re-signing him? Why not?

 

No, if EJ becomes Dalton I will not be a happy camper. I don't want a QB good enough to win games against weaker competition but unable to elevate his game against the best. If EJ's ceiling is Dalton then the ceiling is too low.

To be fair, Dalton was 4-0 against playoff teams on their schedule last year in the reg season. And put up 49 against the great Rex Ryan defense. So he is good enough, it seems, to win games against good teams. Unable to elevate his own game once he is IN the playoffs - so far, yes, absolutely the case. Again I think it will be interesting to see how he does with Hue Jackson as his OC instead of Jay Gruden, when maybe he isn't throwing the ball 37 times/game and they actually involve the 2 1st rd TEs they drafted.

 

That would be great if Nigel Bradham could stop the run along with Spikes.

I think Bradham is a good fit for this scheme. Edited June 7, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[Mark Vader]

We need EJ to make a year 1 to year 2 leap in progress, but IMO he doesn't need to make it into the Top 100 players in the NFL next year for the team to make the playoffs.

Agreed. I believe he can make that leap. Just have to wait and see.

[3rdand12]

I have been pondering this for awhile now. As i mentioned i expect significant progress from a number of players . I also would be pleasantly surprised by a few others who certainly just might.

 

Real qucik As John C mentioned . If EJ reaches Daltons year two level in his year two i would be very happy . But I would expect even more from year 3.

And i also have not written Andy off for hitting his ceiling. I think he will get the hang of winning a playoff game instead of botching it so badly for the Bengals .

I am going with the dark horse candidate here. Unfortunately some of you have beaten me to the punch.

Nigel Bradham .

I would pick Preston Brown but he wont get enough playing time under neath Brandon Spikes. This year .

Spikes is the easy pick. He will lead the team in tackles and change how opposing teams play us.

He will easily be in the top 100. He is going to kill it .

[JohnC]

I have been pondering this for awhile now. As i mentioned i expect significant progress from a number of players . I also would be pleasantly surprised by a few others who certainly just might.

 

Real qucik As John C mentioned . If EJ reaches Daltons year two level in his year two i would be very happy . But I would expect even more from year 3.

And i also have not written Andy off for hitting his ceiling. I think he will get the hang of winning a playoff game instead of botching it so badly for the Bengals .[b/]

I am going with the dark horse candidate here. Unfortunately some of you have beaten me to the punch.

Nigel Bradham .

I would pick Preston Brown but he wont get enough playing time under neath Brandon Spikes. This year .

Spikes is the easy pick. He will lead the team in tackles and change how opposing teams play us.

He will easily be in the top 100. He is going to kill it .

 

What a lot of people fail to consider is that Dalton is still a very young qb who has some room to get better. (As you noted.) As a very young player he got early playing time and acquitted himself very well. Is he an all-star caliber qb? No. But I believe that with a good roster (which he has) he is capable enough to lead his team to some playoff wins.

 

Many people consider Dalton to be lackluster. Maybe so or maybe not so. To put things in perspective he has played better than any qb we have had since the Jim Kelly era. If the Bills can get Dalton like performances from its starting qb then it will be a playoff contending team. If not, then the team will be stuck in its longterm muck of mediocrity.

 

The player I believe who is going to make a major leap forward is Gilmore. He was playing with one arm last year. Contrary to what NYC Bill thinks I believe that Gilmore is going to be an all-star caliber CB for us.

[Beerball]

This has nothing to do with EJ in his entire career. We are talking about year 2 EJ geting to the level of year 2 Dalton. So if EJ turned in the 3rd best season a QB has ever had in a Bills uniform it won't be enough??? Got it

 

You need to seperate yourself from Dalton the player and look at what he did in year 2. You still did not answer the question of what you would be satisfied with if 62% completion, 3,669 yards, 27 TDs an 16 INTs is not enough?

Tell me about Dalton's progression from year to year.

 

No, 62, 3669, 27, 16 is not enough if it is followed up by a playoff loss.

 

I can't be any more clear so I will bow out of this discussion.

[Kirby Jackson]

Tell me about Dalton's progression from year to year.

 

No, 62, 3669, 27, 16 is not enough if it is followed up by a playoff loss.

 

I can't be any more clear so I will bow out of this discussion.

Please do because if the 3rd best season a Bills QB has ever had will not satisfy you,for our 2nd year QB, you are in for a rough year.

[3rdand12]

What a lot of people fail to consider is that Dalton is still a very young qb who has some room to get better. (As you noted.) As a very young player he got early playing time and acquitted himself very well. Is he an all-star caliber qb? No. But I believe that with a good roster (which he has) he is capable enough to lead his team to some playoff wins.

 

Many people consider Dalton to be lackluster. Maybe so or maybe not so. To put things in perspective he has played better than any qb we have had since the Jim Kelly era. If the Bills can get Dalton like performances from its starting qb then it will be a playoff contending team. If not, then the team will be stuck in its longterm muck of mediocrity.

 

The player I believe who is going to make a major leap forward is Gilmore. He was playing with one arm last year. Contrary to what NYC Bill thinks I believe that Gilmore is going to be an all-star caliber CB for us.

Gilmore is one I Expect to leap and easily into the 100. Maybe top 5 CB , He has a major ceiling imho. if he can stop holding lol

[Beerball]

Please do because if the 3rd best season a Bills QB has ever had will not satisfy you,for our 2nd year QB, you are in for a rough year.

Wins matter. I'm sorry if my standards are higher than yours.

[Kirby Jackson]

Wins matter. I'm sorry if my standards are higher than yours.

So based on your criteria you would rather have TJ Yates than Cam Newton? Yates has won a playoff game -Cam hasn't.

 

If the Bills 2nd year QB had the 3rd best season on franchise history, I would be satisfied. I don't know howuch higher my standards can go.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[Beerball]

So based on your criteria you would rather have TJ Yates than Cam Newton? Yates has won a playoff game -Cam hasn't.

 

If the Bills 2nd year QB had the 3rd best season on franchise history, I would be satisfied. I don't know howuch higher my standards can go.

When were those other best seasons? What was the league like? Where did those teams go? 3rd best QB season for the Bills might not be something you want to crow about. What were average QB's doing during those seasons?

 

I already told you I would welcome Cam Newton to the Bills. Please, do not try to put words in my mouth. I answer your questions without snark and truthfully. It would be nice if the responses were in the same vein.

 

We disagree. I will not be happy with numbers equal to Dalton. Sorry for that, but if that's what we're looking at then it's one & done for EJ. He has to elevate his game and I don't consider Dalton a high enough standard.

[Kirby Jackson]

When were those other best seasons? What was the league like? Where did those teams go? 3rd best QB season for the Bills might not be something you want to crow about. What were average QB's doing during those seasons?

 

I already told you I would welcome Cam Newton to the Bills. Please, do not try to put words in my mouth. I answer your questions without snark and truthfully. It would be nice if the responses were in the same vein.

 

We disagree. I will not be happy with numbers equal to Dalton. Sorry for that, but if that's what we're looking at then it's one & done for EJ. He has to elevate his game and I don't consider Dalton a high enough standard.

Fair enough, but if playoff wins ar all that matters than that would be the case.

 

I am just having a hard time seeing how 4% increase, 1700 more yards and 16 more TDs (6 more games) wouldn't be a big enough step. That's a HUGE step forward. I am trying to be realistic. 500 more yards and 10 TDs more than he was on pace for in a 16 game schedule should have us all thrilled. He is not going to go from where he was to Peyton Manning.

 

You still have not answered the question as to what would have you satisfied? Again, TJ Yates won a playoff game so that is not a realistic measuring stick. He is the most important player but not the only player. again, Cam has never won a playoff game. At the end of the season what would EJ have to turn in numbers wise to have you satisfied? 4,000 yards? 30 TDs? 65% completion? I just keep hearing that you would not be satisfied with the performance that Dalton turned in year 2. We know what is not pod enough to you but have no idea what would be good enough.

[Beerball]

You still have not answered the question as to what would have you satisfied? Again, TJ Yates won a playoff game so that is not a realistic measuring stick. He is the most important player but not the only player. again, Cam has never won a playoff game. At the end of the season what would EJ have to turn in numbers wise to have you satisfied? 4,000 yards? 30 TDs? 65% completion? I just keep hearing that you would not be satisfied with the performance that Dalton turned in year 2. We know what is not pod enough to you but have no idea what would be good enough.

Consistently good mechanics.

Quick progressions.

Smarter about protecting himself.

Starting at least 13 games.

Leadership.

Attitude.

Wins.

 

Stats can be turned in whatever direction the author pleases. I'll know it when I see it.

[Kirby Jackson]

Consistently good mechanics.

Quick progressions.

Smarter about protecting himself.

Starting at least 13 games.

Leadership.

Attitude.

Wins.

 

Stats can be turned in whatever direction the author pleases. I'll know it when I see it.

Fair enough

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

What a lot of people fail to consider is that Dalton is still a very young qb who has some room to get better. (As you noted.) As a very young player he got early playing time and acquitted himself very well. Is he an all-star caliber qb? No. But I believe that with a good roster (which he has) he is capable enough to lead his team to some playoff wins.

 

Many people consider Dalton to be lackluster. Maybe so or maybe not so. To put things in perspective he has played better than any qb we have had since the Jim Kelly era. If the Bills can get Dalton like performances from its starting qb then it will be a playoff contending team. If not, then the team will be stuck in its longterm muck of mediocrity.

 

The player I believe who is going to make a major leap forward is Gilmore. He was playing with one arm last year. Contrary to what NYC Bill thinks I believe that Gilmore is going to be an all-star caliber CB for us.

 

First of all, it's good to see you posting.

 

I think that EJ does have a higher upside than Dalton, but so did Rob Johnson. Imo, EJ is a read option qb who needs to run. I doubt that he will ever be a pure passer and I'm ok with this. But I wouldn't pamper him due to his knee if I was the OC. Dalton gets his team to the playoffs. Would I be ok with EJ getting the Bills to the playoffs? Absolutely. I would also be ok with Thad Lewis doing the same.

 

Gilmore? He was the 10th selection of an NFL draft. Yes he has been hurt, but he did play behind a really good pass rush, no? A. Williams and McKelvin had career years in this system, and Searcy had as many big plays as did Gilmore.

I don't have any preconceived notions as to what his production will be this season. You seem to, and this is great. I will say that the Buffalo Bills do need him to play to the level of where he is drafted and what he is getting paid.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that we are on the same page here.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Bill from NYC

[JohnC]

First od all, it's good to see you posting.

 

I think that EJ does have a higher upside than Dalton, but so did Rob Johnson. Imo, EJ is a read option qb who needs to run. I doubt that he will ever be a pure passer and I'm ok with this. But I wouldn't pamper him due to his knee if I was the OC. Dalton gets his team to the playoffs. Would I be ok with EJ getting the Bills to the playoffs? Absolutely. I would also be ok with Thad Lewis doing the same.

 

Gilmore? He was the 10th selection of an NFL draft. Yes he has been hurt, but he did play behind a really good pass rush, no? A. Williams and McKelvin had career years in this system, and Searcy had as many big plays as did Gilmore.

I don't have any preconceived notions as to what his production will be this season. You seem to, and this is great. I will say that the Buffalo Bills do need him to play to the level of where he is drafted and what he is getting paid.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that we are on the same page here.

 

For the most part we are on the same page. I don't consider myself a homer for this troubled franchise. With respect to EJ I don't believe that he is ever going to be a prolific passer. For me he lacks the natural passing motion and mechanics. There is no doubt that he can improve his mechanics but it will never be at an elite level. Where I disagree with you (somewhat) is that I don't want EJ to be a mostly read option qb. There is simply too much physical hazard to playing that type of college ball. There is too much invested in a franchise qb to expose him to such an elevated risk level. In his rookie year Robert Griffin III was an elite read/option qb. His style of play took such a physical toll that it jeopardized his career. The pro game is simply too punishing for a franchise qb to be exposed to that style of play.

 

Last year Aaron Williams and McKelvin both had good seasons. I'm not so enamored with Searcy as you are. If Byrd would have stayed with the team the Bills could make a valid claim of having one of the best defensive backfields in the game. No doubt Seattle had the best backfield unit.

 

Bill, trust me on my lofty evaluation of Gilmore. He was severely impaired with his injury to his wrist. He was courageously playing with one arm. In my view he is not only our best defender in the backfield but he will demonsterate, even to the skeptics, that he is one of the best DBs in the game. Trust me on this issue.

Edited June 8, 2014 by JohnC

[zazie]

The guy from PFF actually had pretty compelling reasons to pick Bradham.

 

I'm going with... Jonathan Meeks. a true dark horse.

 

I always think that ANY guy that can crack an NFL roster is a fabulous athlete and has the measurables to do it.

 

He played at Clemson, big time college ball.

 

Our DB's have tended to get injured, knock on wood, so there may be a chance at some playing time.

 

And when he gets it, maybe he can step it up.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Hogan

[Dorkington]

EJ.

 

I don't think he'll be a probowler, but I think he'll get more comfortable, and confident. Second year in the system, second year in the NFL, healthy legs, a better OL, and WRs he can depend on. Everything is lined up for him to make strides.