Why Niagara Falls?

[May Day 10]

First there is a rail line from Toronto to NF, ON so some can take the train in. Also figure some Canadians would tailgate at the bars and restaurants there before games. That Kryk article also suggested that sites in the US side could offer tailgate packs for sale. But really the Bills would probably prefer they just do their tailgating at an in-stadium bar, which I'm sure the new stadium will have several.

 

I think the ones that currently show come down for the "raw" atmosphere. Thats a reason the Skydome is not desirable to those fans. They could toss away much of the 18% they have and hope to build a more affluent 25% or whatever from scratch. Then we would also have to charge big bucks and change over the clientele from WNY to more upscale. Do we have that in us?

 

I guess that lends to the conversation of do we/can we/should we preserve the atmosphere and tailgating and stay true to ourselves and keep affordable pricing (team is still profitable)? That will increasingly be the attraction IMO. If we still have a good degree of that, with a winning team, and a decent facility, attracting fans will be zero problem. I guess it hinges on what the owner ultimately wants and has a vision for.

Edited June 5, 2014 by May Day 10

[Big Turk]

 

First there is a rail line from Toronto to NF, ON so some can take the train in. Also figure some Canadians would tailgate at the bars and restaurants there before games. That Kryk article also suggested that sites in the US side could offer tailgate packs for sale. But really the Bills would probably prefer they just do their tailgating at an in-stadium bar, which I'm sure the new stadium will have several.

 

There is a train running from Toronto to Buffalo, too...it actually runs from NYC to Toronto or Toronto to NYC..called the Maple Leaf I believe by Amtrak

Edited June 5, 2014 by matter2003

[Keukasmallies]

When you say stadium in NF, I hope you're thinking NF, Canada because NF, NY is just the pits. If NYS needed an enema, it would be inserted in NF, NY

[Big Turk]

When you say stadium in NF, I hope you're thinking NF, Canada because NF, NY is just the pits. If NYS needed an enema, it would be inserted in NF, NY

 

Damn shame isn't it? With all the tourists, it should be one of the richest cities in New York not one of the ghettoist...

[truth on hold]

When you say stadium in NF, I hope you're thinking NF, Canada because NF, NY is just the pits. If NYS needed an enema, it would be inserted in NF, NY

NYS for sure. Keep it on American side. The idea is to help gentrify the area and show case one of the worlds wonders as it should be. You don't put stadiums in pristine high end neighborhoods. That its sort of run down is an argument in favor of putting there.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Mr. WEO]

Interesting read:

http://www.capitalne...ing-destination

 

This is why this is such a long shot. $25 million to spruce up the park. $30 million just to fix up one bridge. Throw in the costs of the much more massive infrastructure projects many here are proposing (widening highways--and bridges!, extending or creating railway lines, etc) as well as mundane rehabbing of sewage, pwer, etc and you can see how incredibly expensive turning NFNY into a desirable habitable tourist destination will be.

 

Notice special mention of erstwhile Bills savior Howard Millstein, who promised much and brought nothing (not withstanding, the AP's contention that "he knew what he was doing" re: somehow knew that the Bills next owner would like to buy his property for a new stadium decades after Millstein purchased it). Millstein could have done anything he wanted with that parcel and all his access to huge sums of money. He hasn't seenthe value in such a play.

 

What this proves that if the market (private development) found a reason to invest in the NY side of the Falls instead of the Canadian side, they would have well before Ralph Wilson died and his team was in play.

[truth on hold]

 

 

This is why this is such a long shot. $25 million to spruce up the park. $30 million just to fix up one bridge. Throw in the costs of the much more massive infrastructure projects many here are proposing (widening highways--and bridges!, extending or creating railway lines, etc) as well as mundane rehabbing of sewage, pwer, etc and you can see how incredibly expensive turning NFNY into a desirable habitable tourist destination will be.

 

It doesn't matter. These cost objections are simply red herrings and exist at any alternative. The key consideration is where the most revenues can be gotten...the upside. Clearly its NF

Edited June 5, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Big Turk]

 

It doesn't matter. These cost objections are simply red herrings and exist at any alternative. The key consideration is where the most revenues can be gotten...the upside. Clearly its NF

 

Then it turns into a political fight between Erie and Niagara counties...

[truth on hold]

 

 

Then it turns into a political fight between Erie and Niagara counties...

That's what's going on now. Hence the desperate obstructionist antics from those representing the Erie side here. What they fail to realize is that if the bills are to be long term viable there's only one side. But when you have politicians and people who've been picking up $20/car to let people park on their lawn near the Ralph, they'll do anything to try and hang on

[May Day 10]

who are they obstructing?

[Mr. WEO]

It doesn't matter. These cost objections are simply red herrings and exist at any alternative. The key consideration is where the most revenues can be gotten...the upside. Clearly its NF

 

There is no evidence to support this conclusion. And it really isn't the public/state's mission to maximize the Bills revenue/profits. The hundreds of millions in tax money to just rehab that (former) city would never be recovered by the state. It makes no sense fiscally. NYS is already committing 1 billion to Buffalo--a viable city--and there is some hope that some of that money will come back to the state in tax revenue.

 

I think Cuomo knows that the money is best spent in Buffalo and completely wasted in NF. HE also knows he doesn't need to carry WNY to be re-elected.

[May Day 10]

There is no evidence to support this conclusion. And it really isn't the public/state's mission to maximize the Bills revenue/profits. The hundreds of millions in tax money to just rehab that (former) city would never be recovered by the state. It makes no sense fiscally. NYS is already committing 1 billion to Buffalo--a viable city--and there is some hope that some of that money will come back to the state in tax revenue.

 

I think Cuomo knows that the money is best spent in Buffalo and completely wasted in NF. HE also knows he doesn't need to carry WNY to be re-elected.

 

Thats it right here. It doesnt make much sense. Unless the new ownership/group demands it absolutely must be in Niagara Falls and is willing to put up a significant chunk of money.

 

Just yesterday Cuomo spoke about being cautious on money spent and seemed to lean a bit more toward the cost savings of being in place in OP. Doesnt sound like a governor who is ready to drop 2 billion dollars so the Bills can play a little closer to Toronto. Nothing is coming from Niagara County either.

 

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/cuomo-expresses-concern-about-taxpayer-costs-for-a-new-bills-stadium-20140604

Edited June 5, 2014 by May Day 10

[PromoTheRobot]

Thats it right here. It doesnt make much sense. Unless the new ownership/group demands it absolutely must be in Niagara Falls and is willing to put up a significant chunk of money.

 

Just yesterday Cuomo spoke about being cautious on money spent and seemed to lean a bit more toward the cost savings of being in place in OP. Doesnt sound like a governor who is ready to drop 2 billion dollars so the Bills can play a little closer to Toronto. Nothing is coming from Niagara County either.

 

 

http://www.buffalone...tadium-20140604

Obviously where a stadium will go is yet to be determined but it's foolish to dismiss NF because of the involvement of Milstein and his connections to Albany.

[Mr. WEO]

Obviously where a stadium will go is yet to be determined but it's foolish to dismiss NF because of the involvement of Milstein and his connections to Albany.

 

Cuomo already has ammassed $33 million for his re-election. He won't miss Milstein's $100,000. He will win re-elction withot the support of the western 1/3 of the state, just as easily as he did in 2010, or more so, as he is the incumbent.

 

You are way over-inflating Milstein's influence at this point in history. Besides, the new owner will be the one laying out the cash for the new stadium land/site....Cuomo knows that too.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

This is why this is such a long shot. $25 million to spruce up the park. $30 million just to fix up one bridge. Throw in the costs of the much more massive infrastructure projects many here are proposing (widening highways--and bridges!, extending or creating railway lines, etc) as well as mundane rehabbing of sewage, pwer, etc and you can see how incredibly expensive turning NFNY into a desirable habitable tourist destination will be.

 

Notice special mention of erstwhile Bills savior Howard Millstein, who promised much and brought nothing (not withstanding, the AP's contention that "he knew what he was doing" re: somehow knew that the Bills next owner would like to buy his property for a new stadium decades after Millstein purchased it). Millstein could have done anything he wanted with that parcel and all his access to huge sums of money. He hasn't seenthe value in such a play.

 

What this proves that if the market (private development) found a reason to invest in the NY side of the Falls instead of the Canadian side, they would have well before Ralph Wilson died and his team was in play.

 

According to the DOT the bridges in NF are being replaced and updated regardless. So those cost are not part of a stadium plan. Widening of roads will occur in any new site the only location that will no need major infrastructure cost is rebuilding in OP.

 

576040 REPLACEMENT OF AMERICAN FALLS BRIDGES; BINs 5522000 & 5522010 IN THE CITY OF NIAGARA FALLS; NIAGARA COUNTY

Edited June 5, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[djp14150]

 

1) Land...Howard Milstein, who is very connected to the governor, owns a gigantic parcel of land right behind the casino.

 

2) Border access...Canadian fans can literally walk over the Rainbow Bridge to the new stadium. Customs can close down auto traffic for a day. It's a lot easier moving large numbers of people over a border without their vehicles.

 

3) Falls redevelopment...Let's face it, NF, USA is a hole. If you build an NFL stadium along with a convention, hotel and entertainment complex, you have an attraction that trumps the Canadian side at least on game days. You can also develop an "NFL Experience" theme park as an ongoing attraction. How about moving training camp there? Another attraction. A bowl game? UB football? There are other events you can add that make it viable outside of game days.

 

just to add...Niagara Falls draws tourists from around the world....think of the global marketing opportunities from an NFL wide perspective if the build this walking distance to the falls.

 

It would be key for them to get an NFL experience park that operates year round. With it, they could get some stuff from the HOF

 

StaThey could also create a dedicated security line to the stadium after clearing customs that means the ticket holders only need to go through this once. this will add a level of effiiciency.

 

Its easier to process pedestrians than it is cars.

 

 

Also remember for those that drive over there are two other bridges they can use rather easily to cross. this will add efficiency of transport.look at other stadiums

 

Hopefully they would build such a stadium to also comply with soccer size field requirements ---they could host a few world cup games whenever the USA hosts again

 

That's what's going on now. Hence the desperate obstructionist antics from those representing the Erie side here. What they fail to realize is that if the bills are to be long term viable there's only one side. But when you have politicians and people who've been picking up $20/car to let people park on their lawn near the Ralph, they'll do anything to try and hang on

 

I think Erie might be able to come to some sort agreement on revenue sharing from the taxes, or the team as a corpooration stays in Erie county.. Look at the Potatoskins///dadium in Maryalnd, team HQ and practice facility in Virginia.

[MarkAF43]

Also remember for those that drive over there are two other bridges they can use rather easily to cross.

 

 

How does this help anyone on the US side of the border?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Looks like it empties directly onto an interstate. You don't think that's relevant?

 

And please, don't compare Robert Moses with an interstate.

 

Please don't compare Boston traffic to Buffalo traffic.

 

Also... Now 190 isn't an interstate. It's been a few years. They took down the red white and blue signs?

[May Day 10]

just to add...Niagara Falls draws tourists from around the world....think of the global marketing opportunities from an NFL wide perspective if the build this walking distance to the falls.

.

 

I just dont get the correlation with this. With baseball, a summer activity with >80 dates and you can just kick your legs up with a cold one, I can see how you can attract a casual tourist/family to a game.

 

An NFL game here takes place outside tourist season, there are 8 of them, good weather games sell out anyways, and you have to kind of deliberately intend on going to an NFL game as its a fairly pricey and all day event. Also, the typical tourists you see at the Falls aren't your typical NFL attendees. If anything, the NFL games would make the Falls very undesirable for tourists on gamedays. What would the maximum "walk-up" be?

 

If this team becomes as competitive as the other 30 (excluding Cleveland), and tickets wont be a problem in any new facility.

 

As far as corporate seats from up North. Once the border is crossed. Does it matter? Say its the same indoor facility. Does it matter that it happens to be 5 blocks from Niagara Falls, or an extra 10-20 minute drive (which could likely be saved in traffic and border gridlock issues?). People may choose the Peace Bridge anyways. Personally, NF would cut 20-25 minutes off my drive, and I would much prefer OP.

 

We also have to remember, Niagara Falls is a bad place with stinky air, chemical plants, and an Indian Casino. Nobody can snap their fingers and make that go away.

 

It would be key for them to get an NFL experience park that operates year round. With it, they could get some stuff from the HOF

 

Hopefully they would build such a stadium to also comply with soccer size field requirements ---they could host a few world cup games whenever the USA hosts again

.

 

That is a great vision, but we are talking more and more on the tab, which already seems expansive when dealing with NF. If the new owner wants to come in and rebuild Niagara Falls for a Bills and NFL related theme park, then have at it.

 

Would love the World Cup, but I doubt it. All MLS cities likely would have an inside track to host any and all events and I would think it would stay in big cities/soccer hotbeds. Off the top of my head, Lincoln Financial, Meadowlands, Pasadena, and Dallas. Those will be impossible to unseat.

Edited June 5, 2014 by May Day 10

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

Hopefully that wasn't a shot directed at me, I started the thread with the purpose of having the discussion as to actual ways and plans to make the traffic flow better, not just say it can't be done. I wouldn't be opposed to the idea, IF (and it's a big if), they can manage to make it semi-reasonable to get out of the falls without sacrificing your entire sunday evening after a game. I keep seeing comments that it can be done and it would be done, but outside of one person ( i think it was you), I haven't seen many real ideas as to how to improve what people are saying about the traffic problems of putting a stadium there.

 

Not shot at any individual. Just a carryover from my professional life where I am constantly irritated by thinking that brings problems instead of solutions.

 

Also this discussion has been held in several threads over many months. Several good arguments have been made for various sites.

 

To me personally I think the tough decision is NF or ralph forever. Downtown buf would be cool but brings less opportunity than the falls.

 

I think any other location Batavia and west Seneca would lose to leave as is given the lack of benefits vs the cost.