Obama's Free Bus Rides

[TakeYouToTasker]

Good idea.

 

So you want do to away with things like water, sewage, schools, public transportation just to name a very few?

GODDAMNIT! READ!

 

I said "Federal".

 

I could give a wet fart what the individual states and localities want to do. If you want to live in a state that offers residents various services, and tax you for it, do it. If you don't, then move to a state that doesn't. The states that do will collapse, and the states that don't will thrive, and the issue sorts itself out. If California wants to turn itself into a huge, coastal Detroit, then I'm not interested in stopping them.

Edited June 11, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[Chef Jim]

GODDAMNIT! READ!

 

I said "Federal".

 

I could give a wet fart what the individual states and localities want to do. If you want to live in a state that offers residents various services, and tax you for it, do it. If you don't, then move to a state that doesn't. The states that do will collapse, and the states that don't will thrive, and the issue sorts itself out. If California wants to turn itself into a huge, coastal Detroit, then I'm not interested in stopping them.

 

The border between the US and Mexico is a federal border dumbass which you want to open up. How does CA keep all these workers you just want to let in from overloading it's system?

[DC Tom]

Good idea.

 

So you want do to away with things like water, sewage, schools, public transportation just to name a very few?

 

Used to be those weren't public services. The public waste system in NYC was originally paid for by subscription.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

The border between the US and Mexico is a federal border dumbass which you want to open up. How does CA keep all these workers you just want to let in from overloading it's system?

It's not my fault that I expressed a desire to stop extending federal services, and you reeled off a list of state and local services in response.

 

California can decide what services it wishes to provide, who they will provide them to, and what burdens need to be met before those services are provided. They could even, as Tom has mentioned, move to a tiered "fee for service" model.

 

Dumbass.

Edited June 11, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[Chef Jim]

It's not my fault that I expressed a desire to stop extending federal services, and you reeled off a list of state and local services in response.

 

California can decide what services it wishes to provide, who they will provide them to, and what burdens need to be met before those services are provided. They could even, as Tom has mentioned, move to a tiered "fee for service" model.

 

Dumbass.

 

"Can I get a drink of water?"

"Papers please"

 

Your utopia is even crazier than the liberal rainbow farting unicorn.

 

The problem with this country is we have way too many people overloading the system. Opening the border for labor (which we have enough being born to American citizens now BTW) is not going to make things any better.

 

So are you suggesting that each state patrol their own border?

[Tiberius]

Did I open a can of worms here?

[TakeYouToTasker]

"Can I get a drink of water?"

"Papers please"

 

Your utopia is even crazier than the liberal rainbow farting unicorn.

Wrong.

 

Water service opperates on a state (or county) level in most areas of the country, and more importantly opperates on a fee for service model.

 

If you want to make an argument, you should atleast endeavor to use actual examples.

 

Or perhaps you should just abandon the foolish hyperbole.

 

The problem with this country is we have way too many people overloading the system. Opening the border for labor (which we have enough being born to American citizens now BTW) is not going to make things any better.

No, the problem is that we have broken systems which don't scale up, and offer far too many services given their lack of scalability.

 

Further, I don't give a rat's ass where someone is born. Our systems shouldn't have some special obligations to you simply because you were lucky enough to have your mother **** you out at a latitude of 32.54441561 instead of 32.54441559.

 

If a person of Mexican, or Chinese, or Indian, or Iranian origions is going to work hard, learn the language, and be proficient in economically beneficial areas of knowledge, then he is far more qualified to be a citizen than your average Johnny Trailer Park or Malcom Drive By. You are not special simply because you were born in a nicer playpen. You've done nothing to contribute to making the playpen nicer.

 

Birthright citizenship should be abolished immediately, and replaced with merit. I want the best, the brightest, and the hardest working, and I don't care where they come from.

 

So are you suggesting that each state patrol their own border?

Hardly, that is a just role of the Federal government, as pertains to National Security.

 

What I am suggesting is that the states take a broader role in determining to whom they will provide non-fee-for-service services.

 

Many states are already doing this as relates to choosing to grant, or not, in-state tuition rates to illegal immigrants.

[Chef Jim]

Wrong.

 

Water service opperates on a state (or county) level in most areas of the country, and more importantly opperates on a fee for service model.

 

If you want to make an argument, you should atleast endeavor to use actual examples.

 

Or perhaps you should just abandon the foolish hyperbole.

 

 

No, the problem is that we have broken systems which don't scale up, and offer far too many services given their lack of scalability.

 

Further, I don't give a rat's ass where someone is born. Our systems shouldn't have some special obligations to you simply because you were lucky enough to have your mother **** you out at a latitude of 32.54441561 instead of 32.54441559.

 

If a person of Mexican, or Chinese, or Indian, or Iranian origions is going to work hard, learn the language, and be proficient in economically beneficial areas of knowledge, then he is far more qualified to be a citizen than your average Johnny Trailer Park or Malcom Drive By. You are not special simply because you were born in a nicer playpen. You've done nothing to contribute to making the playpen nicer.

 

Birthright citizenship should be abolished immediately, and replaced with merit. I want the best, the brightest, and the hardest working, and I don't care where they come from.

 

 

Hardly, that is a just role of the Federal government, as pertains to National Security.

 

What I am suggesting is that the states take a broader role in determining to whom they will provide non-fee-for-service services.

 

Many states are already doing this as relates to choosing to grant, or not, in-state tuition rates to illegal immigrants.

 

I don't give a **** who provides the services many are limited now and can't be scaled up. Please give me your plan to scale up the water to a population that will explode here in CA if you just open the border? The school systems are overcrowded and now and is one of the major reasons we have problems with the education. How do you plan to scale that up when the population explodes when you open the border. How do you plan to scale up the treatment of deseases that will be transported across the border when the population explods when you open the border. How exactly will states determine who gets these "non-fee for srevice" services? How will you make sure that the only people that come across your non-existant border are going to work hard, learn the language, and be proficient in economically beneficial areas of knowledge .

 

You say you want the best, brightest and hardest working. Well opening the border to all comers that's not going to happen. Once again how do you ensure that's all we get? Sure isn't what we're getting now. Quite the fantasy land you live in. You ask me for specific examples but offer none yourself.

[TakeYouToTasker]

I don't give a **** who provides the services many are limited now and can't be scaled up.

Good grief. Read what I'm writing.

 

All services, with the exception of various finite resources, can be scaled up. A delivery system which can't scale is broken, and a new delivery system is required.

 

You're essentially doing the exact same thing Kathleen Sebelius did when she commented that the ACA online enrollment system worked just fine, just so long as no more than a few thousand people tried to access it at once.

 

The problem is the same in both instances, and you are both wrong for the exact same reason. The system is broken, and needs to be scrapped.

 

Please give me your plan to scale up the water to a population that will explode here in CA if you just open the border?

Fee for service with elastic market pricing. Individuals will be priced out of the market, and will leave.

 

The school systems are overcrowded and now and is one of the major reasons we have problems with the education. How do you plan to scale that up when the population explodes when you open the border.

Fee for service with elastic market pricing, and the elimination of public sector unions in education. If there is a demand for education, providers will emerge with price points targeting different demographics.

 

How do you plan to scale up the treatment of deseases that will be transported across the border when the population explods when you open the border.

Fee for service with elastic market pricing. Providers will emerge for treatment at all price points, with charity providers for the truely indigent. Further, you didn't strike me as being pro-government administered heathcare. Is that really the argument you're trying to make?

 

How exactly will states determine who gets these "non-fee for srevice" services?

You're aware that you have elected state and local representation, correct?

 

How will you make sure that the only people that come across your non-existant border are going to work hard, learn the language, and be proficient in economically beneficial areas of knowledge .

You can't, you simply don't grant citizenship, and the benefits thereof, most specifically the franchise, to those who do not.

 

You say you want the best, brightest and hardest working. Well opening the border to all comers that's not going to happen. Once again how do you ensure that's all we get? Sure isn't what we're getting now. Quite the fantasy land you live in. You ask me for specific examples but offer none yourself.

That's because you're arguing against a strawman rather than against me.

 

Once you remove the benefits incentive for those who come here not to work hard, intergrate, and be productive; you'll see a drastic decrease in inflows.

Edited June 11, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[Chef Jim]

 

Good grief. Read what I'm writing.

 

All services, with the exception of various finite resources, can be scaled up. A delivery system which can't scale is broken, and a new delivery system is required.

 

You're essentially doing the exact same thing Kathleen Sebelius did when she commented that the ACA online enrollment system worked just fine, just so long as no more than a few thousand people tried to access it at once.

 

The problem is the same in both instances, and you are both wrong for the exact same reason. The system is broken, and needs to be scrapped.

 

 

Fee for service with elastic market pricing. Individuals will be priced out of the market, and will leave.

 

 

Fee for service with elastic market pricing, and the elimination of public sector unions in education. If there is a demand for education, providers will emerge with price points targeting different demographics.

 

 

Fee for service with elastic market pricing. Providers will emerge for treatment at all price points, with charity providers for the truely indigent. Further, you didn't strike me as being pro-government administered heathcare. Is that really the argument you're trying to make?

 

 

You're aware that you have elected state and local representation, correct?

 

 

You can't, you simply don't grant citizenship, and the benefits thereof, most specifically the franchise, to those who do not.

 

 

That's because you're arguing against a strawman rather than against me.

 

Once you remove the benefits incentive for those who come here not to work hard, intergrate, and be productive; you'll see a drastic decrease in inflows.

 

I see you write fiction for a living. Your answer is to scrap pretty much the whole system and start over. Well good luck with that. Now a couple of things. I have no problem with eliminating the incentives for people to stay but why do we need open borders to make it work? And pricing people out of they system and they will just go back home. That's a laugh. Which chapter of your novel is that in? But if your plan is to price people out and they'll go back "home" what's your plan for US citizens who have been here for generations? Where do they go back "home" to once you've priced them out?

[Tiberius]

 

Further, I don't give a rat's ass where someone is born. Our systems shouldn't have some special obligations to you simply because you were lucky enough to have your mother **** you out at a latitude of 32.54441561 instead of 32.54441559.

 

If a person of Mexican, or Chinese, or Indian, or Iranian origions is going to work hard, learn the language, and be proficient in economically beneficial areas of knowledge, then he is far more qualified to be a citizen than your average Johnny Trailer Park or Malcom Drive By. You are not special simply because you were born in a nicer playpen. You've done nothing to contribute to making the playpen nicer.

 

Birthright citizenship should be abolished immediately, and replaced with merit.

Absolutely love the first part here! Great stuff tasker! Not sure about the merit based citizenship though

[TakeYouToTasker]

I see you write fiction for a living.

And here I thought we were talking about solutions to a problem.

 

I guess that's where the disconnect is. See, I work with large systems, and I trade on solutions to difficult problems.

 

One of the things I do, is diagnose pre-failure and failure systems, and replace them.

 

If you want to know not only what will work, but how it will work, and why it will work; and want to know why the old system is failing or will fail: I'm your guy

 

Your answer is to scrap pretty much the whole system and start over. Well good luck with that.

Yes. Because it's broken. Because it's garbage. Because not replacing it has dire consequences.

 

You want to slap another piece of duct tape on the bondo-bucket. I want to buy a new car.

 

Now a couple of things. I have no problem with eliminating the incentives for people to stay but why do we need open borders to make it work?

Because... right to travel.

 

And pricing people out of they system and they will just go back home. That's a laugh. Which chapter of your novel is that in? But if your plan is to price people out and they'll go back "home" what's your plan for US citizens who have been here for generations?

Individuals need to plan to take care of themselves. Individuals who cannot need to go somewhere where they can take care of themselves. Regardless of where you are born, you should have zero expectations of a system meant to coddle you. Priced out of the California water market? Move out of California. It's a wide, wide world, Junior.

 

Where do they go back "home" to once you've priced them out?

They can make a new home, elsewhere. They aren't entitled.

[Chef Jim]

And here I thought we were talking about solutions to a problem.

 

I guess that's where the disconnect is. See, I work with large systems, and I trade on solutions to difficult problems.

 

One of the things I do, is diagnose pre-failure and failure systems, and replace them.

 

If you want to know not only what will work, but how it will work, and why it will work; and want to know why the old system is failing or will fail: I'm your guy

 

 

Yes. Because it's broken. Because it's garbage. Because not replacing it has dire consequences.

 

You want to slap another piece of duct tape on the bondo-bucket. I want to buy a new car.

 

 

Because... right to travel.

 

 

Individuals need to plan to take care of themselves. Individuals who cannot need to go somewhere where they can take care of themselves. Regardless of where you are born, you should have zero expectations of a system meant to coddle you. Priced out of the California water market? Move out of California. It's a wide, wide world, Junior.

 

 

They can make a new home, elsewhere. They aren't entitled.

 

Well good for you. You sound like you're very at what you do. Well at least one person feels that way. How much of your work is done with the public sector? They can't change a !@#$ing light bulb without filling out a form in triplicate. But you keep shouting from the mountain tops that the whole system needs to be scraped and started over. Good luck with that.

 

And to your last sentence. Helluva nice guy you are.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Well good for you. You sound like you're very at what you do. Well at least one person feels that way. How much of your work is done with the public sector? They can't change a !@#$ing light bulb without filling out a form in triplicate. But you keep shouting from the mountain tops that the whole system needs to be scraped and started over. Good luck with that.

Again, I present solutions to complex problems in large systems.

 

You clearly aren't interested in solutions.

 

You're interested in subsidizing failure, and that's fine.

 

And to your last sentence. Helluva nice guy you are.

It's no different than what you've stated, only difference being that I ask that individuals earn what they receive, and you dole it out based on ethniticity.

Edited June 12, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[Chef Jim]

Again, I present solutions to complex problems in large systems.

 

You clearly aren't interested in solutions.

 

You're interested in subsidizing failure, and that's fine.

 

 

It's no different than what you've stated, only difference being that I ask that individuals earn what they receive, and you dole it out based on ethniticity.

 

Oh I'm interested in solutions. The difference between you and me is I'm interested in solutions that can be implemented. Not fantasy.

 

And I'm interested in subsidizing failure? Ha, that's a laugh. One of my plans is you don't get this weeks unemployment check until after you've spent 40 hours cleaning up the community. You want a welfare check? Food stamps? Here's a broom and a bucket of paint. Sweep that sidewalk and remove that graffiti first.

 

You do away with the border that sucking sound you'll hear will be the vacuum you'll create that will pull millions upon millions of people across the border to get the American "dream". Oh but you'll tell them "no, wait, you can't have it. You have to earn it!!" Their response? "Que??"

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

Oh I'm interested in solutions. The difference between you and me is I'm interested in solutions that can be implemented. Not fantasy.

Hardly. You're interested in "solutions". More duct tape on the bondo bucket. Pertending that daddy isn't a wife/child beating druggie/drunk, that mommy isn't a pill popping manic depressive, and all the kids aren't suicidal; just bring em' to Disney land, cause' they're still a functional family.

 

When you start believing that those are solutions, rather than "solutions", you're already lost.

 

I'm not telling you what's politically viable; I'm telling you what works.

 

And I'm interested in subsidizing failure? Ha, that's a laugh.[/Quote]

Yes. You're interested in throwing money at foolishness that doesn't work.

 

One of my plans is you don't get this weeks unemployment check until after you've spent 40 hours cleaning up the community.

Unemployment is insurance, not an entitlement. Unless you have zero understanding of your own job, I figured you'd understand that. You want to penalize individuals for utilizing a benefit they've already paid for?

 

You want a welfare check? Food stamps? Here's a broom and a bucket of paint. Sweep that sidewalk and remove that graffiti first.

You advocate for more government? And government that practices forced labor standards? Labor standards that will compete directly with public sector unions?

 

And you accuse me of living in a fantasy world?

 

I tell you what will work in application; but you honestly believe your "solution" is achievable. As I said before, you're already lost.

 

You do away with the border that sucking sound you'll hear will be the vacuum you'll create that will pull millions upon millions of people across the border to get the American "dream". Oh but you'll tell them "no, wait, you can't have it. You have to earn it!!" Their response? "Que??"

I can only assume you've rented gatorman's reading comprehension for the day.

 

Go back and read everything I've written on this subject.

[Chef Jim]

Hardly. You're interested in "solutions". More duct tape on the bondo bucket. Pertending that daddy isn't a wife/child beating druggie/drunk, that mommy isn't a pill popping manic depressive, and all the kids aren't suicidal; just bring em' to Disney land, cause' they're still a functional family.

 

When you start believing that those are solutions, rather than "solutions", you're already lost.

 

I'm not telling you what's politically viable; I'm telling you what works.

 

 

Yes. You're interested in throwing money at foolishness that doesn't work.

 

 

Unemployment is insurance, not an entitlement. Unless you have zero understanding of your own job, I figured you'd understand that. You want to penalize individuals for utilizing a benefit they've already paid for?

 

 

You advocate for more government? And government that practices forced labor standards? Labor standards that will compete directly with public sector unions?

 

And you accuse me of living in a fantasy world?

 

I tell you what will work in application; but you honestly believe your "solution" is achievable. As I said before, you're already lost.

 

 

I can only assume you've rented gatorman's reading comprehension for the day.

 

Go back and read everything I've written on this subject.

 

Oh so you can change the whole !@#$ing system but when I propose a change to how unemployment works I have zero understanding of how my job works. Riiiiiiight.

 

Your proposals sound good in theory (well not really but thought I'd just start with that to make you feel good) but impossible to implement. You'd have better luck buying an island somewhere and building a country from scratch with what you want to achieve. But to seriously think that anything you're talking about are even remotely achievable is laughable. Actually scary that you actually think it can happen. Hell thinking that opening the border is going create an orderly inflow of quality top notch people is laughably scary.

 

And go back and read everything you've written on this subject? I've already read way more than I care to..

[TakeYouToTasker]

Oh so you can change the whole !@#$ing system but when I propose a change to how unemployment works I have zero understanding of how my job works. Riiiiiiight.

Non-sequitor.

 

Those two concepts are unrelated.

 

I've proposed a systemic change that would solve the problems, and make the system scalable; and have not bothered to comment on it's political viability.

 

You've expressed a thought which makes it clear that you don't understand how insurance works.

 

Your proposals sound good in theory (well not really but thought I'd just start with that to make you feel good)

This is likely why you don't deal with solving problems involving complex systems for a living. You aren't any good at it.

 

but impossible to implement. You'd have better luck buying an island somewhere and building a country from scratch with what you want to achieve. But to seriously think that anything you're talking about are even remotely achievable is laughable. Actually scary that you actually think it can happen.

Again, I haven't spoken to political viability. I've spoken to what would work if put into practice.

 

As I've said many times, I am a steward of ideas; and the current system is doomed, at this point, to fail. I advocate, and argue as I do, because when the system fails, new systems will have to be erected to replace them. When those systems are built, they should be something that works.

 

Further, the only things laughable here are your reading comprehension, and your belief that the changes you are advocating are politically viable, a claim you should note that I am not making.

 

Hell thinking that opening the border is going create an orderly inflow of quality top notch people is laughably scary.

Again, that's not what I've said, at all. Had you actually read what I've written, you'd know that, but instead you'd rather play the fool.

 

And go back and read everything you've written on this subject? I've already read way more than I care to..

And there's the rub. You're arguing against a position, and a point, you haven't bothered to understand, and coming across as a fool in the process. That's litterally exatly how gatorman goes about his business here. Great job setting a low bar.

Edited June 12, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[Tiberius]

 

As I've said many times, I am a steward of ideas; and the current system is doomed, at this point, to fail. I advocate, and argue as I do, because when the system fails, new systems will have to be erected to replace them. When those systems are built, they should be something that works.

 

You sound like Marx saying capitalism is doomed....chuckle

[Chef Jim]

I do understand your points I just think they are impossible to implement. This country can't even implement the ACA without inciting "riots" amongst the population. What you're proposing is a plan and that's it. Why have you avoided commenting on the political viability? Because it not politically viable and how do you plan to get aroud that? You have these gradiose ideas of what will work. In your mind it's a perfect solution. Even if it were the perfect solution please explain how you would completely unwind over 200 years of political/cultural history and implement these changes without making it political? Whether I agree with your ideas or not is immaterial at this point. I'd love to hear how you would make these vast changes reality?

 

You keep saying you're not for opening the borders. Ok then are you proposing a system by where people from outside the US need to pass some sort of financial, educational exam in order to be let in? You made it sound like they can travel here, it's their human right but in order to stay here they have to be productive members of society. The first I agree with and have always agreed with that but it can't happen until the borders are secured. The second way is impossible to enforce. So explain how you plan on doing that.