Bill O'Reilly's Take On Our Race Problem--He Doesn't Hold

[3rdnlng]

You make good points, B, and Bill does too in his segment. I don't disagree with the premise on its surface, I only have issues when you go deeper into the conversation -- something Bill can't do during that segment due to time restraints. Of course on his radio show, where he has much more time to expound, he never went any further either so maybe he doesn't go further because he can't.

 

Let me explain my point:

 

 

 

Absolutely true. But it's short sighted. It completely removes the institutional racism that brought us to this point and in many cases is still in place today. It's easy to say education and personal responsibility alone will solve the problem -- it's easy because it's true. But what isn't talked about when that point is raised is how that choice isn't as easy for some portions of our citizens to make. Not because they don't want to make those choices but because they don't have the same opportunity to empower themselves.

 

Take Chicago for example. You know the biggest cause of the violence in Chicago? It's not guns, it's not drugs, it's not even gangs -- those are all outcomes of the initial cause which was is the funneling of tax dollars out of poor communities into wealthier ones. The freeway system in Chicago, created largely to get white suburbanites around black neighborhoods back in the day without having to stop not only created a fragmented and racially segregated section of the city. Over the decades those sections of the southside watched their schools crumble and crime rise as opportunity was systematically denied to a large portion of the black community in Chicago.

 

Why didn't they move? I can hear so many people on here frothing at the mouth to make that point, we live in America after all, if the neighborhood is bad move. Well, in Chicago it wasn't that simple. Housing discrimination made it cost prohibitive to move for the most impoverished portions of the population. Factor in the war on drugs which legalized and codified different ways for the "system" to keep a large portion of the black population in jail, and the militarization of the police force in general and what you end up with is a backdoor apartheid system right in the heart of the midwest.

 

Now, 20 or 30 years later, no one talks about the root causes of the violence in Chicago or the plight of the black community. What they talk about are the symptoms of the disease of institutional racism itself and root cause is lost in the sound-bytes. And what we're left with is the aftermath, a segment of the city that was hung out to dry decades ago by the system and today we're blaming the victims of it rather than trying to look at the full scope of the issue.

 

It's easy for O'Reilly to talk about taking personal responsibility. As a white, Irish, working class guy growing up on Long Island, he never had to face the kind of institutionalized racism that many today (and yesterday) face every day. Doesn't mean it was easy for Bill to succeed, he had to work like everyone else, but it's certainly easier for him to succeed because he didn't have to fight certain battles thanks to the amount of melanin he was born with.

 

 

 

I'm with you. All I'm saying is we can't get past the politics and work on solutions unless we're willing to have an honest discussion about all the factors, not just the easiest ones.

 

 

The only crock of **** here is the assumption that black leaders aren't talking about these issues. There are plenty who are. Just because you aren't shown them on Fox News every night doesn't mean they aren't out there. You're woefully ignorant on this subject if you think that's the case.

 

Uncalled for---that's birdog/gatorman worthy. The black leaders on the left play the race card and embrace victimhood, while the black leaders on the right are proclaimed Uncle Toms by everyone on the left, regardless of color.

[keepthefaith]

Take Chicago for example. You know the biggest cause of the violence in Chicago? It's not guns, it's not drugs, it's not even gangs -- those are all outcomes of the initial cause which was is the funneling of tax dollars out of poor communities into wealthier ones. The freeway system in Chicago, created largely to get white suburbanites around black neighborhoods back in the day without having to stop not only created a fragmented and racially segregated section of the city. Over the decades those sections of the southside watched their schools crumble and crime rise as opportunity was systematically denied to a large portion of the black community in Chicago.

 

 

 

What is a crumbling school? The problem in many Chicago schools is mostly with students and parents. Kids there are taught Math, English, Science, etc using the same textbooks and with similar methods as is done in schools in other parts of the city and the near suburbs, yet the graduation rate and performance of the students are quite different. Flies on the walls in homes and classrooms of poor performing students compared to good performing students report that from the time kids get up and until they go to bed at night they see huge differences in their effort to do well in school. The commitment level of students and their parents to their education is simply very different in different homes. That's where most of the solution has to come from. Without that, failure will simply endure. You don't have to go into the inner city to find that difference, it's simply more concentrated there. Abilities of kids vary quite a bit but it's effort that levels the playing field.

Edited June 5, 2014 by keepthefaith

[truth on hold]

I like how all these "white people" speak for what's wrong with the "black family". How silly arrogant. They're either a) opining on something they have no experience with, or b) drawing an artificial distinction between white and black in the first place.

[3rdnlng]

I like how all these "white people" speak for what's wrong with the "black family". How silly arrogant. They're either a) opining on something they have no experience with, or b) drawing an artificial distinction between white and black in the first place.

 

So, encouraging black leaders to speak up is wrong? I have no right to an opinion, even if it affects my money?

[truth on hold]

So, encouraging black leaders to speak up is wrong? I have no right to an opinion, even if it affects my money?

who are "black leaders"? who do they actually speak for? I have plenty of black friends and none of them would say Al Sharpton speaks for them. Just like Bill O'Reilly surely doesn't speak for me

[3rdnlng]

who are "black leaders"? who do they actually speak for? I have plenty of black friends and none of them would say Al Sharpton speaks for them. Just like Bill O'Reilly surely doesn't speak for me

 

Read the thread, the answers are there.

[keepthefaith]

who are "black leaders"? who do they actually speak for? I have plenty of black friends and none of them would say Al Sharpton speaks for them. Just like Bill O'Reilly surely doesn't speak for me

 

When people like Sharpton and Jackson continually make statements about how blacks are disadvantaged, race based responses are to be expected.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

who are "black leaders"? who do they actually speak for? I have plenty of black friends and none of them would say Al Sharpton speaks for them. Just like Bill O'Reilly surely doesn't speak for me

There is a culture, very dominate in black communities, that lionizes ignorance, crime, the cheapening of women, and the sexual irresponsibility of men.

[Deranged Rhino]

Uncalled for---that's birdog/gatorman worthy. The black leaders on the left play the race card and embrace victimhood, while the black leaders on the right are proclaimed Uncle Toms by everyone on the left, regardless of color.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but what's your point? What else do you have to add other than that one element? This is not new information nor is it entirely relevant to the overall issue of race in this country. My point is there are plenty of black leaders that are not race baiters nor in the exploitation business, they just don't show up on the news because they aren't lightning rods.

 

Can you bring some different stuff to the discussion you started? What's your point with this, or what's your solution?

[3rdnlng]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but what's your point? What else do you have to add other than that one element? This is not new information nor is it entirely relevant to the overall issue of race in this country. My point is there are plenty of black leaders that are not race baiters nor in the exploitation business, they just don't show up on the news because they aren't lightning rods.

 

Can you bring some different stuff to the discussion you started? What's your point with this, or what's your solution?

 

Consider for a moment that the president, AG and many members of Congress play the race card with as much ease as getting up in the morning and making coffee. I'm sure that there are local black leaders that step up. Who are the people going to listen to?

[meazza]

 

 

Consider for a moment that the president, AG and many members of Congress play the race card with as much ease as getting up in the morning and making coffee. I'm sure that there are local black leaders that step up. Who are the people going to listen to?

 

Being technically a minority in my own province (anglophone), i easily play the card as well because of the history. It's hard to believe that people all of sudden want to be your bff after decades of the complete opposite.

[Deranged Rhino]

Consider for a moment that the president, AG and many members of Congress play the race card with as much ease as getting up in the morning and making coffee. I'm sure that there are local black leaders that step up. Who are the people going to listen to?

 

Hopefully not our elected officials, at least as their primary sources. The problem, in my opinion of course, isn't that there aren't voices inside and outside the black community preaching the issues Bill raised but rather that those voices don't get airtime because they're not controversial. They're not in it for the money or the fame which cannot be said about the cable news / MSM's usual go-tos on race issues. That ties into the media's role in the situation -- which again is something that Bill only shows one side of during his remarks -- they can't sell something that's not rooted in conflict (which always equates to hardline opinions rather than honest conversations or reporting) so they can't use the large majority of folks who make this their life's mission.

 

But Bill doesn't want to talk about that because he's smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds him.

 

A major influence on my life was a baptist minister who lived next door when I was growing up. He was from Memphis originally and preached in Mississippi during the Civil Right's era. Because he was a baptist, and baptists believe in redemption, he reached out to the Klan and worked both sides the line despite the tremendous risk to his life and family because of it. He also worked with the Jewish community (of which there were few). When violence broke out and the Jewish community in Jackson spoke out about it, the Klan launched a wave of attacks including bombing the synagogue and the rabbi's house. This man was right in the center of it all and continued his work (and does so to this day), caring about people rather than a cause. He preaches all the things that would make you and papa O'Reilly proud: self accountability, education, family, faith. He moved to Rochester in the late 70s because the Klan had blown up two of his houses and the guy who did it escaped FBI custody and was on the run. I **** you not this was this dude's life... the stories he told sparked my initial passion for history and storytelling (because the man knows how to tell a story).

 

The most amazing thing about this man though is his spirit. Despite his life and struggles he doesn't demonize anyone, he does nothing but try to improve the lives of those around him.

 

I'm sure my neighbor is one of thousands who have similar goals and approaches. I've met loads personally so I know they exist.

 

But that doesn't solve the problem any more than pointing out that there are people who sensationalize the topic for their own gain. Of course there are those types of people, everyone who's honest would admit that. All those revelations lead us to is a discussion that isn't about the topic of race at all but instead about the periphery.

[IDBillzFan]

I like how all these "white people" speak for what's wrong with the "black family". How silly arrogant. They're either a) opining on something they have no experience with, or b) drawing an artificial distinction between white and black in the first place.

 

So tell us, oh whitebread, what is keeping the black communities from advancing? What keeps their unemployment so high? Their fathers from taking care of their babies?

 

Wait. Let me guess, White privilege.

[OCinBuffalo]

You are a total partisan hack. I listen to the other side and take in their messages. I mostly reject what they have to say but not until after i've listened to them. You would do well to study Dorkington here, who is a liberal but doesn't feel he needs to be an asswhole too.

I only quoted this becuase asswhole is hilarious. Whole ass? No. Asswhole!

This is where the issue becomes more complicated than O'Reilly's rant makes things sound. The race-baiters excluded from what I'm about to say (you know who those are), there are plenty of activists and folks within the black community who talk at great lengths about these subjects every day. But, unlike the O'Reilly's and others of the world, they don't stop their analysis at the surface level. You cannot discuss the breakdown of black families without talking about the factors outside of personal responsibility. Factors like the War on Drugs which was aimed like a laser at the black community and is reflected in the hugely disparaging sentencing differences for narcotics doled out between urban people of color and urban white offenders, or factors like the destruction of the manufacturing base and low skill labor jobs in our major cities coupled with housing discrimination aimed at helping gentrification in cities like Chicago at the expense of the black community all play critical roles in the situation we find ourselves in when it comes to race in this country.

 

But talking about those factors isn't as easy for O'Reilly's (largely white men over the age of 45) to swallow. That's why he won't talk about them and that's why his rant is one sided and superficial, as is anyone's who doesn't take in the whole picture and instead tries to assign blame to one segment of the population.

The whole picture INCLUDES a boatload of bad choices.

 

I fully get what you are saying. Hell, I've literally lived it. I knew something was wrong with gentrification when I was 6 years old. That's cause: we, my family, have been doing the "fixer upper"/gentrfying! Yes, I am fully guilty as charged. We've been fixing up houses in "bad" neighborhoods since I can remember.

 

Now, are we part of some vast 45 year-old white guy conspiracy, or, did my parents come from blue collar backgrounds, and therefore knew how to sweat pipe, hang wallpaper, paint, clean, caprentry, and were assisted by me taking 8th grade shop and learning wiring? Did we know how to flip a house 20 years before that term was coined, and sell it for double, or, were we just racists?

 

If you want me to be serious....then I require you to be serious as well.

 

We cannot begin a serious discussion...with the dehumanizing of so many people. We have to account for their bad choices, which are a direct result of an awful culture. Anything else is pointless, because if you don't fix problem #1 = Lowered Expectations Due to Crap Culture, we get nowhere.

 

Bad culture is not a black-only problem. You can go all over this country, and find plenty of people who say "I've done pretty good for (insert shithole town here)". They could have done better. They know it. But, they get pass from the community, because it's "good enough for (shithole)" is the community's excuse. Hell half of Upstate NY lives this culture.

 

Do you really want to talk about the systemic oppression of Upstate by Albany/NYC? Or, tell me what exactly has happened in Chicago, that hasn't happened in Upstate.

Blame game goes on and on. You are blaming the race baiters for the problem while absolving yourself of doing any critical thinking beyond that. That's why the issue won't go away, because it's easier to blame someone else for the issue.

 

The irony here is rich.

Yes, and it's EXTREMELY easy to blame someone else, when you have such a handy excuse laying around, and people encouraging you to use it, and vote for them.

We're on the same page with your last point but not the first. The creative/conspiratorial side of my brain loves the first part but doesn't really believe it. You talk a lot about personal responsibility but completely abdicate your principles when the conversation challenges your vision of our system. As corrupt and divisive as our system is today, and I think we agree on that point more than most on here do, our system still takes it's cues from the population as a whole. That's why I love this country and what it stands for. No matter how far down the shitslide the country goes, the people have the power to fix it if they're willing to put in the work.

 

Me being a-political doesn't mean I don't care about issues, it just means I don't lock myself into the bull **** that ideological affiliation brings in our current political environment. The media, social media, inter-connectivity and have made it easier than ever to keep us distracted and fighting amongst ourselves so the powers-that-be can keep lining their pockets -- I agree with you there. However, that can only continue to be true if we keep buying into it. I think we're fast reaching a tipping point, especially in light of the inequality we all are facing on a daily basis.

 

It's a choice we all can make. Again, personal responsibility. We can either continue to be part of the problem or begin to be part of the solution by changing the tenor of the discourse and not falling into the partisan pitfalls that bog down topics of real import before an actual conversation and investigation ever begins.

 

And you're embracing what, ethinic superiority? Other segments of the population don't face racism because they have a credo of personal responsibility and haven't franchised victimhood? Your arguments here are one sided and superficial. They don't further the discussion, they end them. That's why they're toxic to the conversation.

Are you the ONLY Holllywood writer who has never heard a Polish joke? Do you really think anybody wanted Poles to move in next door? Christ, they might destroy the entire neighborhood in one night....just trying to change one light bulb.

 

You know how the Poles defeated this clearly racist assault/systemic approach to preventing them from assimilating/being trusted with skilled labor? Mouth closed, incredibly hard work, fierce commitment to family, and a boatload of good choices....often enforced by a wire hanger to the ass.

 

In other words: Self Control. Self control is the chief element in Self Respect. Self Respect is the chief element in Courage.

 

And Courage...real Courage...not "look at how strong I say I am cause I say I am" phony courage....is the way forward, quite literally for everyone.If you have real Courage, literally nothing can stop you. Not what is said, not what is done. Real Courage creates belief.

 

Once a group of people believes, they become a team. Once they become a team? Anything is possible. Orthodox Jews demonstrate this reality via their mere existence. How have they, despite all their both self-inflicted, and externally applied, limitations, been able to succeed?

 

Self Control-->Self Respect-->Courage. And if you've ever hung with Orthodox Jews for more than a day, you realize just how hard courage is for them, when paranoia, both fake and jusified, is also part of their culture. I keep telling them: hit the gym. Lift some weights. They don't listen. The biggest coward I've ever met? Huge, stacked Irish red head guy. He admits it. But, he's never been in a fight. Why? The gym.

 

Tell you what: I'll listen to your "systemic" discussion, if you admit that the first step in fixing inner city madness is: Self Control.

But everything he posts is about him! LOL, he is a funny poster.

Wait, so it's GreggyT's turn to be the narcissist? Or, is it that I've just been away for a bit?

Edited June 6, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[birdog1960]

Hopefully not our elected officials, at least as their primary sources. The problem, in my opinion of course, isn't that there aren't voices inside and outside the black community preaching the issues Bill raised but rather that those voices don't get airtime because they're not controversial. They're not in it for the money or the fame which cannot be said about the cable news / MSM's usual go-tos on race issues. That ties into the media's role in the situation -- which again is something that Bill only shows one side of during his remarks -- they can't sell something that's not rooted in conflict (which always equates to hardline opinions rather than honest conversations or reporting) so they can't use the large majority of folks who make this their life's mission.

 

But Bill doesn't want to talk about that because he's smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds him.

 

A major influence on my life was a baptist minister who lived next door when I was growing up. He was from Memphis originally and preached in Mississippi during the Civil Right's era. Because he was a baptist, and baptists believe in redemption, he reached out to the Klan and worked both sides the line despite the tremendous risk to his life and family because of it. He also worked with the Jewish community (of which there were few). When violence broke out and the Jewish community in Jackson spoke out about it, the Klan launched a wave of attacks including bombing the synagogue and the rabbi's house. This man was right in the center of it all and continued his work (and does so to this day), caring about people rather than a cause. He preaches all the things that would make you and papa O'Reilly proud: self accountability, education, family, faith. He moved to Rochester in the late 70s because the Klan had blown up two of his houses and the guy who did it escaped FBI custody and was on the run. I **** you not this was this dude's life... the stories he told sparked my initial passion for history and storytelling (because the man knows how to tell a story).

 

The most amazing thing about this man though is his spirit. Despite his life and struggles he doesn't demonize anyone, he does nothing but try to improve the lives of those around him.

 

I'm sure my neighbor is one of thousands who have similar goals and approaches. I've met loads personally so I know they exist.

 

But that doesn't solve the problem any more than pointing out that there are people who sensationalize the topic for their own gain. Of course there are those types of people, everyone who's honest would admit that. All those revelations lead us to is a discussion that isn't about the topic of race at all but instead about the periphery.

inspiring story. however, i don't agree that all major media ignores stories that aren't sensational and controversial. here's what comes up when you search "race" at npr: http://www.npr.org/sections/race/. ok, lebron is 2nd up but after that, there's a lot about everyday folks.

[Deranged Rhino]

Are you the ONLY Holllywood writer who has never heard a Polish joke? Do you really think anybody wanted Poles to move in next door? Christ, they might destroy the entire neighborhood in one night....just trying to change one light bulb.

 

You know how the Poles defeated this clearly racist assault/systemic approach to preventing them from assimilating/being trusted with skilled labor? Mouth closed, incredibly hard work, fierce commitment to family, and a boatload of good choices....often enforced by a wire hanger to the ass.

 

I worked for a very famous, very well known comedian who's on the older side of the hill. He had a great story about the time he told a Polish joke on TV in the 60s. You know what happened when he did? He got threatened, followed, and harassed by the Polish Defense League (making up the name, I forget the actual group) who, in this comedian's words, made the other activist civil right's groups pale in comparison. To this day, this guy won't make a polish joke on TV because of his experience with the Polish Defense League.

 

It's a nice story you can tell yourself though that the only reason Poles got through their hardships by keeping their mouth closed and working together and that if only the black community would do the same they'd be okay. Unfortunately it's not reality. It's laughably ignorant of history.

[Azalin]

 

 

I worked for a very famous, very well known comedian who's on the older side of the hill. He had a great story about the time he told a Polish joke on TV in the 60s. You know what happened when he did? He got threatened, followed, and harassed by the Polish Defense League (making up the name, I forget the actual group) who, in this comedian's words, made the other activist civil right's groups pale in comparison. To this day, this guy won't make a polish joke on TV because of his experience with the Polish Defense League.

 

Don Rickles?

[Deranged Rhino]

Don Rickles?

:lol:

 

Not quite that old, maybe a generation younger. Honestly, it was the best job I had out here before I took off on my own. Guy was fearless but that incident left its mark where he wouldn't even joke about it. I never got all the details about the nature of the threats or what was said, but he learned a lesson.

[meazza]

:lol:

 

Not quite that old, maybe a generation younger. Honestly, it was the best job I had out here before I took off on my own. Guy was fearless but that incident left its mark where he wouldn't even joke about it. I never got all the details about the nature of the threats or what was said, but he learned a lesson.

 

Did the guy threaten to pee in his corn flakes?

[Azalin]

 

:lol:

 

Not quite that old, maybe a generation younger. Honestly, it was the best job I had out here before I took off on my own. Guy was fearless but that incident left its mark where he wouldn't even joke about it. I never got all the details about the nature of the threats or what was said, but he learned a lesson.

 

if you would have said it was Rickles, I would have become belligerently envious. still, it sounds like it was a pretty sweet job. I remember Don Adams being interviewed years ago, and he told of how he tried to do some of the insult-style stand-up and nearly got himself killed for it.

 

 

 

 

Did the guy threaten to pee in his corn flakes?

 

dude, the guy was Polish. he threatened to pee in his own corn flakes.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Azalin