Bill O'Reilly's Take On Our Race Problem--He Doesn't Hold

[Deranged Rhino]

There will **always** be racism. Always.

 

One of the key reasons, however, that things are unable to improve, is because it is currently a valuable political commodity. The issue is more important than a solution.

 

Things will never improve until the race baiters shut up, and until the victim mentality is done away with.

Blame game goes on and on. You are blaming the race baiters for the problem while absolving yourself of doing any critical thinking beyond that. That's why the issue won't go away, because it's easier to blame someone else for the issue.

 

The irony here is rich.

[DC Tom]

Blame game goes on and on. You are blaming the race baiters for the problem while absolving yourself of doing any critical thinking beyond that. That's why the issue won't go away, because it's easier to blame someone else for the issue.

 

The irony here is rich.

 

That works on both sides, of course. Al Sharpton's made millions blaming someone else.

[B-Large]

This is where the issue becomes more complicated than O'Reilly's rant makes things sound. The race-baiters excluded from what I'm about to say (you know who those are), there are plenty of activists and folks within the black community who talk at great lengths about these subjects every day. But, unlike the O'Reilly's and others of the world, they don't stop their analysis at the surface level. You cannot discuss the breakdown of black families without talking about the factors outside of personal responsibility. Factors like the War on Drugs which was aimed like a laser at the black community and is reflected in the hugely disparaging sentencing differences for narcotics doled out between urban people of color and urban white offenders, or factors like the destruction of the manufacturing base and low skill labor jobs in our major cities coupled with housing discrimination aimed at helping gentrification in cities like Chicago at the expense of the black community all play critical roles in the situation we find ourselves in when it comes to race in this country.

 

But talking about those factors isn't as easy for O'Reilly's (largely white men over the age of 45) to swallow. That's why he won't talk about them and that's why his rant is one sided and superficial, as is anyone's who doesn't take in the whole picture and instead tries to assign blame to one segment of the population.

 

Yes, of course it is more nuanced than 5 minutes of rant from a talking head. He is essentially calling Black Leaders to the carpet and asking why instead of focusing on stirring up racial tensions, why not push legislation and socliy policy to address these issues? He's calling out leaders in the entertaiment community to challenge the impact of "baller", "killer" gangster portayals of black youth and is it worth glamourizing consider the behavior it suggests?

 

O'Reilly is simply asking the question "why", it is not his role to answer neccesarily.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Blame game goes on and on. You are blaming the race baiters for the problem while absolving yourself of doing any critical thinking beyond that. That's why the issue won't go away, because it's easier to blame someone else for the issue.

 

The irony here is rich.

In politics, is any issue not more valuable than the solution?

Edited June 5, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker

[B-Large]

There will **always** be racism. Always.

 

One of the key reasons, however, that things are unable to improve, is because it is currently a valuable political commodity. The issue is more important than a solution.

 

Things will never improve until the race baiters shut up, and until the victim mentality is done away with.

 

I would suggets it has improved dramatically. we have a Black President as the topping on the cake, and ask around to kids under 30- they just don't see race as a dividing issues as much as the generation prior. My parents and in-laws remark about the "darkening" of Colorado- my wife and I just see it as Colorado as we know it. time brings progress, it wisdom that lets us leave pettiness behind and accept moving forward.

[Deranged Rhino]

That works on both sides, of course. Al Sharpton's made millions blaming someone else.

Absolutely, I conceded that point in my earlier post. The race baiters are into making money, not issues of race. That's clear. And an easy target to get folks off topic.

 

But saying things won't change until the race-baiters shut up is just passing the buck, and in fact doing the same thing that the race-baiters do to exacerbate the issue. Just recognizing that race-baiters aren't in it for the cause doesn't solve anything or move the conversation forward. It stops it before it can begin.

 

Which is what the other side wants to happen.

 

Yes, of course it is more nuanced than 5 minutes of rant from a talking head. He is essentially calling Black Leaders to the carpet and asking why instead of focusing on stirring up racial tensions, why not push legislation and socliy policy to address these issues? He's calling out leaders in the entertaiment community to challenge the impact of "baller", "killer" gangster portayals of black youth and is it worth glamourizing consider the behavior it suggests?

 

O'Reilly is simply asking the question "why", it is not his role to answer neccesarily.

But by just asking "why" and pinning the entirety of blame on the discriminated segment of the population only reinforces the discrimination. It does nothing to move the conversation forward. All it does is make Bill's audience (which is largely white, middle age or older men) feel comfortable in their apathy about racial relations in this country. After all, if you believe Bill's stance then it's not their fault and there's nothing they can do.

 

It's why that rant works.

[B-Large]

Blame game goes on and on. You are blaming the race baiters for the problem while absolving yourself of doing any critical thinking beyond that. That's why the issue won't go away, because it's easier to blame someone else for the issue.

 

The irony here is rich.

 

Maybe it's because and olg strodge might DC TOM judges people on merit, versus Race? Just a theory- its what I do.

[Deranged Rhino]

In politics, is any issue not more valuable than the solution?

 

Which is why I'm a-political. Politics and the combative nature of our national discourse does far more damage to our country than anything else. It makes it tough to solve issues when all everyone sees is ideology.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Which is why I'm a-political. Politics and the combative nature of our national discourse does far more damage to our country than anything else. It makes it tough to solve issues when all everyone sees is ideology.

It doesn't matter if you're a-political. The people who control the issues and national messaging are exclusively hyper-political, and are ruthlessly power-hungry.

 

The combative nature of our national discourse is by design. When you divide, you can conquer.

[3rdnlng]

Obama embraces black victimhood. As long as he and other black leaders continue to play the race card, it's an impossible task to find the solutions. The "War on Poverty" has been going on for 50 years. It hasn't done schit for blacks but has certainly hurt them. The breakdown of the black family is by far the worst outcome of this war. No wonder LBJ claimed it would have those n****** voting Democrat for the next 200 years.

[Deranged Rhino]

It doesn't matter if you're a-political. The people who control the issues and national messaging are exclusively hyper-political, and are ruthlessly power-hungry.

 

The combative nature of our national discourse is by design. When you divide, you can conquer.

We're on the same page with your last point but not the first. The creative/conspiratorial side of my brain loves the first part but doesn't really believe it. You talk a lot about personal responsibility but completely abdicate your principles when the conversation challenges your vision of our system. As corrupt and divisive as our system is today, and I think we agree on that point more than most on here do, our system still takes it's cues from the population as a whole. That's why I love this country and what it stands for. No matter how far down the shitslide the country goes, the people have the power to fix it if they're willing to put in the work.

 

Me being a-political doesn't mean I don't care about issues, it just means I don't lock myself into the bull **** that ideological affiliation brings in our current political environment. The media, social media, inter-connectivity and have made it easier than ever to keep us distracted and fighting amongst ourselves so the powers-that-be can keep lining their pockets -- I agree with you there. However, that can only continue to be true if we keep buying into it. I think we're fast reaching a tipping point, especially in light of the inequality we all are facing on a daily basis.

 

It's a choice we all can make. Again, personal responsibility. We can either continue to be part of the problem or begin to be part of the solution by changing the tenor of the discourse and not falling into the partisan pitfalls that bog down topics of real import before an actual conversation and investigation ever begins.

 

Obama embraces black victimhood. As long as he and other black leaders continue to play the race card, it's an impossible task to find the solutions. The "War on Poverty" has been going on for 50 years. It hasn't done schit for blacks but has certainly hurt them. The breakdown of the black family is by far the worst outcome of this war. No wonder LBJ claimed it would have those n****** voting Democrat for the next 200 years.

 

And you're embracing what, ethinic superiority? Other segments of the population don't face racism because they have a credo of personal responsibility and haven't franchised victimhood? Your arguments here are one sided and superficial. They don't further the discussion, they end them. That's why they're toxic to the conversation.

[TakeYouToTasker]

We're on the same page with your last point but not the first. The creative/conspiratorial side of my brain loves the first part but doesn't really believe it. You talk a lot about personal responsibility but completely abdicate your principles when the conversation challenges your vision of our system. As corrupt and divisive as our system is today, and I think we agree on that point more than most on here do, our system still takes it's cues from the population as a whole. That's why I love this country and what it stands for. No matter how far down the shitslide the country goes, the people have the power to fix it if they're willing to put in the work.

 

Me being a-political doesn't mean I don't care about issues, it just means I don't lock myself into the bull **** that ideological affiliation brings in our current political environment. The media, social media, inter-connectivity and have made it easier than ever to keep us distracted and fighting amongst ourselves so the powers-that-be can keep lining their pockets -- I agree with you there. However, that can only continue to be true if we keep buying into it. I think we're fast reaching a tipping point, especially in light of the inequality we all are facing on a daily basis.

 

It's a choice we all can make. Again, personal responsibility. We can either continue to be part of the problem or begin to be part of the solution by changing the tenor of the discourse and not falling into the partisan pitfalls that bog down topics of real import before an actual conversation and investigation ever begins.

There is an absolutely fantastic book by Daniel Boostin called The Image. When it was published in 1962, it was brilliant and relevant. After the passing of so many years, and exponential improvments to the methods by which information is deceminated, it now screams truth from the rooftops.

 

Every drop of information we get, is not really information at all. It is spin at best, but more accurately described as a shroud pulled over our eyes to prevent us from viewing the real machinations of the global power elites.

 

The populace is led to believe that our system takes its cues from them; where as the truth is that our populace takes it's cues from our system, and then our system executes as it intended origionally, having "gained it's permissions" from the people, whom it has convinced are acting of their own volition, as informed citizens independant thinkers.

[Tiberius]

It doesn't matter if you're a-political.

 

But everything he posts is about him! LOL, he is a funny poster.

[Deranged Rhino]

There is an absolutely fantastic book by Daniel Boostin called The Image. When it was published in 1962, it was brilliant and relevant. After the passing of so many years, and exponential improvments to the methods by which information is deceminated, it now screams truth from the rooftops.

 

Every drop of information we get, is not really information at all. It is spin at best, but more accurately described as a shroud pulled over our eyes to prevent us from viewing the real machinations of the global power elites.

 

The populace is led to believe that our system takes its cues from them; where as the truth is that our populace takes it's cues from our system, and then our system executes as it intended origionally, having "gained it's permissions" from the people, whom it has convinced are acting of their own volition, as informed citizens independant thinkers.

In the big picture stuff we have a lot in common in terms of our approach and thinking, so I'm not trying to argue or debate I'm just merely curious. If that's truly the reality of the world we live in, then what's the point of engaging in political debate/discourse/philosophy in the first place? I mean that in the sense that if everything is ultimately out of our control and political activism (in the most benign sense of the term) is futile, what do you get out of this board or political discourse in general?

 

It just seems so defeatist to throw up your hands, even if that's the reality.

[B-Large]

Absolutely, I conceded that point in my earlier post. The race baiters are into making money, not issues of race. That's clear. And an easy target to get folks off topic.

 

But saying things won't change until the race-baiters shut up is just passing the buck, and in fact doing the same thing that the race-baiters do to exacerbate the issue. Just recognizing that race-baiters aren't in it for the cause doesn't solve anything or move the conversation forward. It stops it before it can begin.

 

Which is what the other side wants to happen.

 

 

But by just asking "why" and pinning the entirety of blame on the discriminated segment of the population only reinforces the discrimination. It does nothing to move the conversation forward. All it does is make Bill's audience (which is largely white, middle age or older men) feel comfortable in their apathy about racial relations in this country. After all, if you believe Bill's stance then it's not their fault and there's nothing they can do.

 

It's why that rant works.

 

I don't think he was suggesting it entirely the fault of the downrodden- what he's getting at is encouraging that segment to make better decision, ie not have kids early, if they do have Dad stick around or not be in jail. His segment was about the Black community, but the premise can be applied across the board- lets say for example very poor white trash. The concepts are the same, family unit, obeying the law, getting and education, putting in the effort and gaining respect and merit in our society.

 

Single Black mother who give a **** get it. Their boys are going to best schools they can get to them to (Look up articles about DC School and Vouocher programs), they make sure their boys don't get into gangs, and sure as heck do their best to make sure their boys don't get some girl knocked up. Its about breakign the cycle, breakign it for good- and THAT is what Obama and Sharpton and other Black leaders should be stressing.

 

Like TYTT said, there will ALWAYS be racism, and bigot and other trash. for the 95% of us don't care and are too busy for that nonesense, we like to see getting past the politics and encourging solutions.

Edited June 5, 2014 by B-Large

[GG]

There will **always** be racism. Always.

 

One of the key reasons, however, that things are unable to improve, is because it is currently a valuable political commodity. The issue is more important than a solution.

 

Things will never improve until the race baiters shut up, and until the victim mentality is done away with.

 

If I may quibble with a word, it's that there will always be racists. Racism to me implies an institutionalized or structured environment that prevents a race or caste from upward mobility. Based on that definition, it would be hard to argue that racism still exists in the US.

 

But of course it's still very profitable to show that because there are still racists running around, that racism is still alive and well, and is the reason for the ongoing disparity between whites & blacks.

[3rdnlng]

We're on the same page with your last point but not the first. The creative/conspiratorial side of my brain loves the first part but doesn't really believe it. You talk a lot about personal responsibility but completely abdicate your principles when the conversation challenges your vision of our system. As corrupt and divisive as our system is today, and I think we agree on that point more than most on here do, our system still takes it's cues from the population as a whole. That's why I love this country and what it stands for. No matter how far down the shitslide the country goes, the people have the power to fix it if they're willing to put in the work.

 

Me being a-political doesn't mean I don't care about issues, it just means I don't lock myself into the bull **** that ideological affiliation brings in our current political environment. The media, social media, inter-connectivity and have made it easier than ever to keep us distracted and fighting amongst ourselves so the powers-that-be can keep lining their pockets -- I agree with you there. However, that can only continue to be true if we keep buying into it. I think we're fast reaching a tipping point, especially in light of the inequality we all are facing on a daily basis.

 

It's a choice we all can make. Again, personal responsibility. We can either continue to be part of the problem or begin to be part of the solution by changing the tenor of the discourse and not falling into the partisan pitfalls that bog down topics of real import before an actual conversation and investigation ever begins.

 

 

 

And you're embracing what, ethinic superiority? Other segments of the population don't face racism because they have a credo of personal responsibility and haven't franchised victimhood? Your arguments here are one sided and superficial. They don't further the discussion, they end them. That's why they're toxic to the conversation.

 

What a crock of schit. I'm saying black leaders need to step up and discuss the issues honestly. For Obama to embrace victimhood is an affront to his own people.

[Deranged Rhino]

You make good points, B, and Bill does too in his segment. I don't disagree with the premise on its surface, I only have issues when you go deeper into the conversation -- something Bill can't do during that segment due to time restraints. Of course on his radio show, where he has much more time to expound, he never went any further either so maybe he doesn't go further because he can't.

 

Let me explain my point:

 

I don't think he was suggesting it entirely the fault of the downrodden- what he's getting at is encouraging that segment to make better decision, ie not have kids early, if they do have Dad stick around or not be in jail. His segment was about the Black community, but the premise can be applied across the board- lets say for example very poor white trash. The concepts are the same, family unit, obeying the law, getting and education, putting in the effort and gaining respect and merit in our society.

 

 

Absolutely true. But it's short sighted. It completely removes the institutional racism that brought us to this point and in many cases is still in place today. It's easy to say education and personal responsibility alone will solve the problem -- it's easy because it's true. But what isn't talked about when that point is raised is how that choice isn't as easy for some portions of our citizens to make. Not because they don't want to make those choices but because they don't have the same opportunity to empower themselves.

 

Take Chicago for example. You know the biggest cause of the violence in Chicago? It's not guns, it's not drugs, it's not even gangs -- those are all outcomes of the initial cause which was is the funneling of tax dollars out of poor communities into wealthier ones. The freeway system in Chicago, created largely to get white suburbanites around black neighborhoods back in the day without having to stop not only created a fragmented and racially segregated section of the city. Over the decades those sections of the southside watched their schools crumble and crime rise as opportunity was systematically denied to a large portion of the black community in Chicago.

 

Why didn't they move? I can hear so many people on here frothing at the mouth to make that point, we live in America after all, if the neighborhood is bad move. Well, in Chicago it wasn't that simple. Housing discrimination made it cost prohibitive to move for the most impoverished portions of the population. Factor in the war on drugs which legalized and codified different ways for the "system" to keep a large portion of the black population in jail, and the militarization of the police force in general and what you end up with is a backdoor apartheid system right in the heart of the midwest.

 

Now, 20 or 30 years later, no one talks about the root causes of the violence in Chicago or the plight of the black community. What they talk about are the symptoms of the disease of institutional racism itself and root cause is lost in the sound-bytes. And what we're left with is the aftermath, a segment of the city that was hung out to dry decades ago by the system and today we're blaming the victims of it rather than trying to look at the full scope of the issue.

 

It's easy for O'Reilly to talk about taking personal responsibility. As a white, Irish, working class guy growing up on Long Island, he never had to face the kind of institutionalized racism that many today (and yesterday) face every day. Doesn't mean it was easy for Bill to succeed, he had to work like everyone else, but it's certainly easier for him to succeed because he didn't have to fight certain battles thanks to the amount of melanin he was born with.

 

Single Black mother who give a **** get it. Their boys are going to best schools they can get to them to (Look up articles about DC School and Vouocher programs), they make sure their boys don't get into gangs, and sure as heck do their best to make sure their boys don't get some girl knocked up. Its about breakign the cycle, breakign it for good- and THAT is what Obama and Sharpton and other Black leaders should be stressing.

 

Like TYTT said, there will ALWAYS be racism, and bigot and other trash. for the 95% of us don't care and are too busy for that nonesense, we like to see getting past the politics and encourging solutions.

 

I'm with you. All I'm saying is we can't get past the politics and work on solutions unless we're willing to have an honest discussion about all the factors, not just the easiest ones.

 

What a crock of schit. I'm saying black leaders need to step up and discuss the issues honestly. For Obama to embrace victimhood is an affront to his own people.

The only crock of **** here is the assumption that black leaders aren't talking about these issues. There are plenty who are. Just because you aren't shown them on Fox News every night doesn't mean they aren't out there. You're woefully ignorant on this subject if you think that's the case.

[3rdnlng]

But everything he posts is about him! LOL, he is a funny poster.

 

Hey, you're welcome to opine over in that other thread about Republicans crying. Just because you are the OP doesn't mean you shouldn't stick around and support your thread.

[TakeYouToTasker]

In the big picture stuff we have a lot in common in terms of our approach and thinking, so I'm not trying to argue or debate I'm just merely curious. If that's truly the reality of the world we live in, then what's the point of engaging in political debate/discourse/philosophy in the first place? I mean that in the sense that if everything is ultimately out of our control and political activism (in the most benign sense of the term) is futile, what do you get out of this board or political discourse in general?

 

It just seems so defeatist to throw up your hands, even if that's the reality.

I take my positions and discuss them in many arenas, for several reasons.

 

First, it's usually good intellectual exercise.

 

Second, I enjoy discussion and debate.

 

Finally, stepping on Friedman, I believe that we are all stewards of ideas. I believe this role to be a wildly important role in the evolution of man.