bbb Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) This really sounds good to me. I was just driving tonight on Route 5. I don't know how i've never got in an accident there, because I always have to look out at the lake. To me, it's so cool looking when you're around Hamburg Beach, etc. and can see the city, the windmills, etc...........A new stadium where the steel plant used to be would look so great there. And, this guy is right. For 100 years or more, we've been blocked out of two miles of prime waterfront by the steel plant. This really would be a game changer. Or am I wrong?: https://www.change.o...nly-right-place Here is Jeromeme's post (#39 on this thread): Please consider signing petition here https://www.change.o...nly-right-place The best choice for all of Western New York. Bethlehem Waterfront Park * Change Western New York's image forever from the rust belt to a green belt, national showcase. * Create 1200 acres of usable waterfront, two miles wide and a mile deep of uninterrupted land with plenty of green space projects and parking. * Provide a domed stadium (retractable roof) beside a large Outer Harbor, with an impressive front plaza and boardwalk overlooking the harbor (600 to 1,000 boat slips). Elevated enclosed walkways connecting domed stadium, Buffalo Bills office, high rise hotels and condos. * Offer opportunities for other attractions such as a splash lagoon, (possible museums/sports theme attractions), Woodlawn beach extension (total two mile beach), outdoor youth athletic areas (football, baseball and soccer), boat ramps, 10,000 trees, 200 to 400 RV/camper sites, amphitheater/elevated patios overlooking the beach with sunset views, picnic shelters, wildlife/bird nursery, art area (think Artpark), garden area (close to Botanical Gardens), restaurant and shopping district on Ridge Road and old Route Five Boulevard. * The land has multiple six main existing access roads. A seventh fast track thruway connector (quick access to waterfront for thruway drivers, attracts visitors) can be built on an abandon 2.3 miles railway to link up with Route Five and Waterfront with no tolls. Fast track Route Five, with no stop lights. These will enhance and maximize existing traffic flow for the City of Buffalo rush hour, park and events. * The domed stadium would be enough away from the immediate shoreline to protect tens of thousands of tailgating Bills fans from the weather. Take advantage of the temperature of the air will be ten degrees warming from the lake retaining the summer heat in the later season. * Highlight the City of Buffalo’s numerous hotels, restaurants, shops and waterfront by connecting the light rail transit system out and along the waterfront to the park. * A natural wonder showcase for 80,000 fans and the NATIONAL AWARENESS of millions of viewers to see on TV multiple times a year, attract the SUPER BOWL. * Western New York offering a vast multiple use and family friendly atmosphere all along the waterfront. * The greatest of youth plans in miles of waterfront natural beauty, which re-energizes souls and spirits. * Create tens of thousands of jobs I sense there are insights from ancient history, a people freed from bondage of four hundred years. They could have gone into their promise land but their conditioning from being in bondage cause them to turn away, saying there were giants in the land. They wandered aimlessly in disbelief for forty years in the wilderness. Only when the older generation died off, the younger generation not afraid, courageously entered the promise land and overcame the obstacles. When the Bethlehem Steel plant closed in 1983 (31 years ago), Lackawanna citizens doubted saying to themselves there were as if giants in the land in the many large empty buildings, it is to polluted, and there is no money, became wandering aimlessly. Around the year 1900 there were also a handful of people in power of then the town of Seneca (before separated into Lackawanna) chosen love of money over a serene waterfront. An unfinished painting with an already backdrop of a long sand beach where children played alongside their mothers, sunsets and the lake teamed with blue pike, walleye, perch, and bass. Ready for good stewards, as if with the delicate brush stokes of an artist to paint in a large inner harbor of commercial boats, sail boats, fishing boats, a large waterfront park, a main street filled with shops, parents, children smiling, and tourism. Money recirculated back into the economy instead of being taken to far away serene places never to return. Painted in relatively clean industry in designated areas away from the waterfront. A place to live, work and play. Instead a handful of people in power chosen to paint in a wall of darkness and pollution. Painted in large darken buildings some containing labyrinths of flowing fire, large smoke stacks discharged large billowing smoke columns blocking the sunlight, fouling the air with fine orange colored particles that hanged in the air and drifted down into every little crevice and onto clothes hanged out to dry. A gaseous noxious sulfur smell permeating the area and the night sky would instantaneously become orange as on fire. Painted in polluted water killed the fish and parts of the lake. Painted in crooked politicians, rows of saloons, brothels and a City Hall that looks like a plastic orange milk crate held up on sticks. A city on the great lakes where its citizens are completely walled off of its two miles of waterfront shore for a hundred years. Abraham Lincoln had said: “A house divided against itself can't stand ........... I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other.” It should be ask, can the waterfront in it's present state endure with industry side by side clean waterfront tourism in the city of Buffalo for long? An example of our house divided is the destruction of the Bethlehem Steel Administration Building https://www.facebook...46390728721646/ . This could of been easily saved for a tourist destination on the waterfont of Lackawanna. Instead outside politicians became mysteriously silent over night as if bowed down to the steel plant legacy mentality of industry on the waterfront. Twenty years ago Lackawanna citizens, including myself, barely fended off (even by way of death threats) a tire burning plant and medical waste burning faculty to be built on Lackawanna’s waterfront. If not for this victory, there would be smokestacks on Lackawanna’s waterfront today with their exhaust pollution drifting over Buffalo’s Canalside. Much of Buffalo’s waterfront resurgence, revitalization, beautification and saving of the old buildings would have perhaps never solidified the way it has as of late. Today industry is ramping up again on Lackawanna's waterfront, where more Lackawanna citizens will be economically yoked to the heavy industry on the waterfront. What will happen next time when another polluting industry will offer Lackawanna a deal too good to be true, easy fast money? Will you trust Lackawanna politicians when they see dollars signs in their dreams? Will there be enough citizens not yoked to the growing industry foot print on the waterfront to stop them, next time? I don't expect the same degree of the steel plant pollution, but it will be another black mark on Western New York’s waterfront. Where again Western New York's clean waterfront image will lose out and jeopardize Buffalo’s resurgence. If you're going to begin a waterfront beautification and revitalization, you must go all the way, and carry it to all parts before it is too late. (The mayor on July 12, 2013 said during his conversation with a citizen, there is a company form India interesting in moving to Lackawanna's waterfront, three times as big as the recent large business moved to the waterfront.) What happens on Lackawanna's waterfront, does not stay on Lackawanna's waterfront, reflects an image and affects all citizens in W.N.Y., New York State and the U.S.A. Buffalo is beginning to prosper, 1.7 billion dollars is being invested in beautifying their waterfront, new buildings throughout the city, and restoring their architectural rich designed buildings. Will Lackawanna ever learn the word diversify, clean light industry currently on Lackawanna's waterfront can be relocated with state and federal grants inland? Western New York's image will only truly change completely if the 1200 acres of the waterfront of Lackawanna is unclogged with “we care attitudes”, “hone to beautification”, and remove the “pollution build up”, will cause the economy of W.N.Y. to have its original full power intended, will speed ahead, be on a par with other great waterfront areas across the nation, gaining national recognition, attracting people, fueling its economic engine. The Buffalo Bills dome stadium can be the catalyst to kick start the two remaining cylinders of W.N.Y. economic engine. The raw economic power will ignite the greatest private, State, and Federal investment revitalization and beautification of Western New York's waterfront. A Western New York's waterfront complete makeover, in the shortest time horizon to be enjoyed, bring prosperity and be appreciated by all a place to live, work and play. The City of Buffalo's waterfront and the City of Lackawanna's waterfront are forever connected, each has its own particular strengths. One without the other, can never attain their fullness of stature. The strength of Lackawanna's waterfront reclaimed, cleaned up and beautified will have a multifaceted natural appeal. Combined them will complement each another; will uplift each other to the awareness of the nation, for attracting a super bowl and on to the global stage the Olympics. Add a new six lane Peace Horizons Bridge could be a tourist destination to draw numerous tourist of the 22,000,000 tourist that visit the falls each year. Only a half an hour drive from the falls to the Buffalo area (bring tourist dollars). Western New York shores ought to be lifted up as bright shinning stars, where others in the world will take notice. Citybration presented Peace Horizons Bridge And Bethlehem Waterfront Park design, at Canal Side Buffalo New York for one day. People signed the petitions, 184 signatures for Peace Horizons Bridge and over 100 signatures for the Bethlehem Waterfront Park https://www.flickr.c...in/photostream/ Steven Appler AMHERST, NY 6 days ago I agree that is time to begin wrestling this mess that Bethlehem left, cleaning it up and putting that amazing area back into the tax roll. Andrew Jansa OMAHA, NE 6 days ago I am from Orchard Park, I still come back all the time and go to games. This is important to me because not only is it a fantastic spot, getting rid of one of the scars of the city and putting something else there that would remind us of where the city use to come from in the Steel days would be a great way to honor past and present. sally zak EDEN, NY 11 days ago Season ticket holders and if you have to move it then Lackawanna has more than enough room along the waterfront plus it's an eye sore now. Let's make the most of that empty land. Great idea and easy access for all. Francine Warner GRAND ISLAND, NY 12 days ago I see this as the perfect place for a domed stadium due to the location. Easy to get to from all directions, north from Canada and all of the south towns. Close to Buffalo for out of town visitors to stay over at one of Buffalo's many hotels. Mary Gallivan BUFFALO, NY 12 days ago I believe that the message is true! We failed at our last attempt. Let's not allow Lackawanna fall to the wayside. I'm from the north side of the city and I can totally see the wisdom of this argument. Clarence Korabek VIRGINIA BEACH, VA 13 days ago It will beautify the waterfront which should have been done in the 80's. It will also help to keep the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo. Peter Kujawski KENMORE, NY 6 days ago While not only providing a permanent and contemporary home to the Buffalo Bills, this plan would turn a long dominant and polluted site into a local, national and international destination. I grew up in Buffalo and the Bethlehem Steel site always conjured images for a long gone era. We can reclaim part of that hay day and help rejuvenate the city and surrounding neighborhoods. Tracy Snyder CANANDAIGUA, NY 6 days ago The Buffalo Bills are an integral part of the Western New York Community and need to be recognized and part of a larger long lasting project here. Local, national, and even international recognition of a project of this magnitude would benefit the region and be a positive move in the right direction for improving the economic and cultural climate. These are critical times and losing the Bills is not an option. This plan is a forward thinking and practical way to ensuring the growth of the region and the future of a long lasting and deeply engrained tradition. Please consider signing petition here https://www.change.o...nly-right-place http://forums.twobil...20#entry3152688 Edited June 11, 2014 by bbb
PromoTheRobot Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Putting a stadium anywhere but downtown, or maybe...MAYBE...Niagara Falls is a waste. Stadiums do not attract development by themselves. Proof? Look at RWS. 40 years and what have you got in the way of economic development? They made the same mistake when they built the arena. Larry Quinn touted it would be a magnet for development. It took around 18 years for anything to get going and much of it happened because Terry "Warbucks" wrote the check. Imagine if they had built the arena at Chippawa & Genesee like was originally proposed? Sure, Chippawa St. is jumping anyway, but imagine what dropping 18,000+ people 50 times a year would add? Instead they built it in a forgotten end of town with nothing but parking lots and holes in the ground around it for over a decade. Don't overthink this. Put it downtown by the FNC, Canalside, and Casino. PTR
machine gun kelly Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 My rank order choices. 1. NF 2. Downtown 3. Tear down Bethlehem Steel on the water.
DukeyBomb Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Don't listen to PTR, bbb. The people who want to see the stadium downtown are strictly worried about monetary means. It would NOT be a waste to put the stadium in other locations besides downtown. First economic development is a farse in of itself in a unsustainable capitalistic system. Putting the stadium downtown will only bring more "jobs" to "modernize" the city which doesn't make sense to keep building and building in an outdated system that consumes the planets finite resources. Yeah I went there. If those steel plants are just going to sit there and do nothing... and if we HAVE to build a ridiculous new stadium (which I don't agree with either), then DEFINITELY the old steel plant is the place it should go. Not to mention it IS a fantastic spot not far away from downtown Buffalo. It would also be a great way to meld past and present together by taking away one of the scars of the city (beth steel) and putting something new in place. In my opinion it would be a perfect way to honor the city of Buffalo. My top 4 choices are 1) Beth steel 2) WS Mall 3) Keep it where it is. 4) Not downtown. Id rather have it in NFNY than DT
Solomon Grundy Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Putting a stadium anywhere but downtown, or maybe...MAYBE...Niagara Falls is a waste. Stadiums do not attract development by themselves. Proof? Look at RWS. 40 years and what have you got in the way of economic development? They made the same mistake when they built the arena. Larry Quinn touted it would be a magnet for development. It took around 18 years for anything to get going and much of it happened because Terry "Warbucks" wrote the check. Imagine if they had built the arena at Chippawa & Genesee like was originally proposed? Sure, Chippawa St. is jumping anyway, but imagine what dropping 18,000+ people 50 times a year would add? Instead they built it in a forgotten end of town with nothing but parking lots and holes in the ground around it for over a decade. Don't overthink this. Put it downtown by the FNC, Canalside, and Casino. PTR I'll say it again, "you are the Robot"!!! What's the status on UB2020? Edited June 3, 2014 by the skycap
Rivermont Mike Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 I'm a Lackawanna native, and as much as I would love to see the stadium sited in on the waterfront there, it will never happen. The cost to remove the toxic materials in those brownfields would be beyond the scope of any ownership group. I believe that the site is already on the Federal remediation list, but there are places that are far, far worse.
bowery4 Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) I'm a Lackawanna native, and as much as I would love to see the stadium sited in on the waterfront there, it will never happen. The cost to remove the toxic materials in those brownfields would be beyond the scope of any ownership group. I believe that the site is already on the Federal remediation list, but there are places that are far, far worse. I was going to mention the clean up costs, so thanks for that. One thing about clean up costs I never understood is why the hell, when a big industry like Dow or BS moves on are they not made to clean up after themselves? As it is, if I remember right, a brown clean up really only involves removing top layer and filling in with top soil. All that does is like nothing to whatever is underneath and all that does is piss me right off. Nothing is even mentioned about what they did to the water there, that land and water will never be the same. Edited June 3, 2014 by bowery4
Homey D. Clown Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Putting a stadium anywhere but downtown, or maybe...MAYBE...Niagara Falls is a waste. Stadiums do not attract development by themselves. Proof? Look at RWS. 40 years and what have you got in the way of economic development? They made the same mistake when they built the arena. Larry Quinn touted it would be a magnet for development. It took around 18 years for anything to get going and much of it happened because Terry "Warbucks" wrote the check. Imagine if they had built the arena at Chippawa & Genesee like was originally proposed? Sure, Chippawa St. is jumping anyway, but imagine what dropping 18,000+ people 50 times a year would add? Instead they built it in a forgotten end of town with nothing but parking lots and holes in the ground around it for over a decade. Don't overthink this. Put it downtown by the FNC, Canalside, and Casino. PTR Agreed. I think by placing it near the Sabres arena would also allow some opportunities to "share parking" space, limiting the need for as much parking. If this city wants to change, the powers that be need to start building some **** that will bring people and business.
Bufcomments Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 I love the idea but who would pay for the cleanup of the old Beth Steel site? It's a good idea tho. If they are going to built it on the waterfront there is plenty of space in Downtown Buffalo for them to build it and they would not have to clean up a major toxic dump to do so. Adding a brand new stadium next to a already rebuilding harborside area would be a better and cheaper option .
Lurker Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Don't overthink this. Put it downtown by the FNC, Canalside, and Casino.
PromoTheRobot Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 I'll say it again, "you are the Robot"!!! What's the status on UB2020? Moving forward, but in a less linear fashion than proposed.
MarkAF43 Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 My rank order choices. 1. NF 2. Downtown 3. Tear down Bethlehem Steel on the water. I find it funny that most people that mention NF as their choice have yet to come up with a viable solution to deal with the nightmare traffic situations that would arise from dropping 60-70K people in NF. they can't even handle the traffic and parking from when Wallenda walked the wire over the falls and I believe that was only like 15K-20K max? How could they ever handle this realistically?
SRQ_BillsFan Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Interesting thought about Beth steel. Not sure if there might be federal dollars available for the cleanup? Putting structures there that people would not live in full time would make it safer since any exposure to things left behind would be reduced. It may be the only way that we could put something there in the next 50/100 years. So it could be a way to utilize lakefront property that would be unusable and an eyesore for year to come. Not my 1st choice but if it gets rid of and cleans up the site that would be a positive step for the city. Traffic would be a problem however. We could save some money as the structure may not require lights for the field. Imagine watching the stadium and fans glowing while the rest of the country watches us play a home game on a Monday night. . Edited June 3, 2014 by SRQ_BillsFan
chris heff Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 I'm a Lackawanna native, and as much as I would love to see the stadium sited in on the waterfront there, it will never happen. The cost to remove the toxic materials in those brownfields would be beyond the scope of any ownership group. I believe that the site is already on the Federal remediation list, but there are places that are far, far worse. This is the first thing I thought of.
RyanC883 Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Agreed. I think by placing it near the Sabres arena would also allow some opportunities to "share parking" space, limiting the need for as much parking. If this city wants to change, the powers that be need to start building some **** that will bring people and business. Exactly. The stadium should be either in the city or in NF. The Steelers/PNC Park complex in Pittsburgh shares parking, and spurred the development of many hotels, businesses, restaurants, and a concert venue. I love the idea but who would pay for the cleanup of the old Beth Steel site? It's a good idea tho. If they are going to built it on the waterfront there is plenty of space in Downtown Buffalo for them to build it and they would not have to clean up a major toxic dump to do so. Adding a brand new stadium next to a already rebuilding harborside area would be a better and cheaper option . Exactly.
jo39416 Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Putting a stadium anywhere but downtown, or maybe...MAYBE...Niagara Falls is a waste. Stadiums do not attract development by themselves. Proof? Look at RWS. 40 years and what have you got in the way of economic development? They made the same mistake when they built the arena. Larry Quinn touted it would be a magnet for development. It took around 18 years for anything to get going and much of it happened because Terry "Warbucks" wrote the check. Imagine if they had built the arena at Chippawa & Genesee like was originally proposed? Sure, Chippawa St. is jumping anyway, but imagine what dropping 18,000+ people 50 times a year would add? Instead they built it in a forgotten end of town with nothing but parking lots and holes in the ground around it for over a decade. Don't overthink this. Put it downtown by the FNC, Canalside, and Casino. PTR I read this at first and disagreed, but then I realized that I misread, so uh.. I agree. Carry on.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) I find it funny that most people that mention NF as their choice have yet to come up with a viable solution to deal with the nightmare traffic situations that would arise from dropping 60-70K people in NF. they can't even handle the traffic and parking from when Wallenda walked the wire over the falls and I believe that was only like 15K-20K max? How could they ever handle this realistically? Yes sounds like an unsolvable problem. It's not like adding road capacity, parking and coordinating mass transit from some regional hubs would solve a crazy ridiculous problem like this. Maybe they just need to wait out the erosion process until the falls gets to the other side of grand island. I mean they ALREADY built the roads. It's not like that will ever be able to change. </sarcasm font> Edited June 3, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood
KD in CA Posted June 3, 2014 Posted June 3, 2014 Putting a stadium anywhere but downtown, or maybe...MAYBE...Niagara Falls is a waste. Stadiums do not attract development by themselves. Proof? Look at RWS. 40 years and what have you got in the way of economic development? Are you kidding? Those guys who let you park on their lawn make a killing during the season!
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