Poloncarz confirms there are suitors who want to move the team

[Ronin]

Does the team have to be bought by the highest bidder? Does the Wilson family have any say in who buys the team?

 

They're not saying. Isn't that nice of them. My guess is that yes, they do. Otherwise they would come out and say it. Seems like every day now we're hearing about one more thing that screws us over. Just get it all out already. Why these stupid games with the fans. I'm so pissed at Wilson.

Edited June 2, 2014 by TaskersGhost

[thebandit27]

Exactly. And Toronto's been there for how long? A few weeks? No, for as long as the Bills have been in town and then some.

 

Clearly that's hardly a draw. Let's be practical and realistic here.

 

Meanwhile, you say that if Toronto, what, the metro area ten times the size of Buffalo, with an enormous amount of much larger businesses and the financial hub of Canada and one of the largest few financial centers in the world, but the chances of moving the team to Toronto are slim to nil.

 

Figure out which it is. If Toronto's a factor as you imply, then the team's moving to Toronto, not sitting in a paltry little city barely making the top-100 in size in the US without a single Fortune 500 company and not even close to enough corporate dollars to regularly fill luxury suites, is the outcome.

 

BTW, this L.A. thing in the piece was a red herring.

 

So you're going to ignore all of the facts from the other thread that discussed marketing limitations prior to the last 7-8 years with regard to Toronto in an attempt to further this agenda?

 

They're not saying. Isn't that nice of them. My guess is that yes, they do. Otherwise they would come out and say it. Seems like every day now we're hearing about one more thing that screws us over. Just get it all out already. Why these stupid games with the fans. I'm so pissed at Wilson.

 

Ah, so in one post you say it's a "fact" that he made no arrangements, and then go on to admit you're guessing.

 

Pick one please.

[Ronin]

Actually, it seems that you are the one that doesn't get it. Have you ever worked for a business before? Spending $1 billion to keep the team in Buffalo is much more profitable than $4 billion to move to LA. Especially since the vast majority of NFL revenue is the same regardless of franchise location. Do you think you get more TV money because you are in a larger market?

 

Whatever. If you can't piece that simple thing together you don't understand business either.

 

Three words:

 

Location, location, location.

 

You think I coined that?

 

Yeah, OK, I'm the one that doesn't understand business. OK

 

The others, besides you, that don't understand business are the politicians. They have absolutely no profit margin, no P/L to worry about as a result, constantly overspend, arbitrarily set their operating costs, like wages for government employees, and when they overspend they simply ask for more tax money and go fleece the sheep some more.

 

If a real busines owner could do that, ...

Edited June 2, 2014 by TaskersGhost

[K-9]

They're not saying. Isn't that nice of them. My guess is that yes, they do. Otherwise they would come out and say it. Seems like every day now we're hearing about one more thing that screws us over. Just get it all out already. Why these stupid games with the fans. I'm so pissed at Wilson.

 

It makes absolutely ZERO business sense to say anything publicly before the bidding process has begun. There are more than a couple "local" bidders who seek to keep the team in WNY.

 

And your anger at Mr. Wilson couldn't be more evident. It seems to guide every post you make.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Wayne Cubed]

Exactly. And Toronto's been there for how long? A few weeks? No, for as long as the Bills have been in town and then some.

 

Except Toronto has never been consider part of Buffalo's market, even though it's that close. It falls under NFL Canada and does not figure into Buffalo's numbers. And until recently Buffalo was unable to even market themselves in Toronto, because again, it fell under NFL Canada.

[Ronin]

Can we see some documentation confirming this fact? Do you somehow know the terms of Ralph's trust?

 

Come on, if he had then it'd be out and the uber wealthy wouldn't be wasting their time.

 

You wanna bet me $100 that he didn't? I didn't think so.

[jahnyc]

Certain purchasers may have enough money where they will overpay by a lot and move the team when they can. I think it is that simple and this is the worst case scenario. There are billionaires with many more billions than Golisano, Pegula and Jacobs combined. No one thought the Clippers were worth $2 billion.

[BillnutinHouston]

 

 

They're not saying. Isn't that nice of them. My guess is that yes, they do. Otherwise they would come out and say it. Seems like every day now we're hearing about one more thing that screws us over. Just get it all out already. Why these stupid games with the fans. I'm so pissed at Wilson.

The voice of panic.

 

If what you're saying has merit, and that the trust has instructions to sell to the highest bidder, why would Ralph name his wife and niece to the trust? Why not name faceless number crunchers and keep his beloved family away from the mess of selling the team to someone who wants to relocate the team?

[thebandit27]

Come on, if he had then it'd be out and the uber wealthy wouldn't be wasting their time.

 

You wanna bet me $100 that he didn't? I didn't think so.

 

First off, I don't make bets with random strangers on the internet.

 

Second, why do you think any trust would openly distribute the restrictive terms of a billion-dollar sale prior to bidding? You claim to understand business, and then assume they'd give away any leverage they could possibly have in the sale of the team by doing that?

 

No offense Mr. Ghost, but you don't seem to be very transaction-savvy.

[Fingon]

Whatever. If you can't piece that simple thing together you don't understand business either.

 

Three words:

 

Location, location, location.

 

You think I coined that?

 

Yeah, OK, I'm the one that doesn't understand business. OK

 

The others, besides you, that don't understand business are the politicians. They have absolutely no profit margin, no P/L to worry about as a result, constantly overspend, arbitrarily set their operating costs, like wages for government employees, and when they overspend they simply ask for more tax money and go fleece the sheep some more.

 

If a real busines owner could do that, ...

You don't understand business. The vast majority of NFL revenue is guaranteed regardless of location. I could move a team to Albuquerque and I would still 90% of the revenue all the other owners get. So why would I spend tons of money to move the team from Albuquerque, when I could make a far higher rate of return by staying put? Only in TaskersGhost's world does it make sense to spend 3-4x as much for maybe 20% more revenue.

[nucci]

You know what it sounds like to me, ... common sense really, that Brandon and Polancarz fully understand that it's an uphill battle to keep the team in the region. That they're exploring all options to do so. That they don't want to suggest that the odds of the team staying may be closer to 10% than to 90-100% like many here seem to BILL-ieve.

 

This isn't a fairy tale, it's modern America where money is all that matters and the desires of the uber wealthy are all that matter.

 

Take Wilson for instance. You really think he cared about anything but himself and the inheretence he'd leave his family? Please! He could have sold the team to Golosano, Peguda, Trump, or anyone else that agreed to keep it in Buffalo, but instead he's arranged to have it sold upon his death and now we've heard, several times, that it will be to the highest bidder. I'd bet anything that that's exactly who's going to be buying it, the highest bidder.

 

I'm just curious how many fans still view Ralph as some great guy that really did what he could, or even a small amount besides throwing an anchor on the team, while it still sucks, to stick around for a few more seasons.

 

That's a fact, Wilson could have arranged, perhaps even posthumously, to have sold the team to someone willing to keep it here. The other fact is that he did not do that. At this point, every dime that the estate makes is pure profit off of his original purchase price of $25K, which in today's NFL terms is about a penny. I guess $800M, even after taxes, isn't enough for his family to live on.

 

Meanwhile, watch, the team will go to the playoffs the season before it moves.

 

 

 

Again, you're missing the point. A month ago if anyone had been asked about the value of the Clippers, we'd be having the same conversation here, that the Clippers wouldn't sell for anymore than $1B if that.

 

These people have way too much money for everyone else's good.

Why can't they buy it now? Team wasn't for sale years ago but it is now and it's not necessarily going to highest bidder. 4 person committee that votes plus NFL owners have to approve.

Edited June 2, 2014 by nucci

[Lurker]

Only in TaskersGhost's world does it make sense to spend 3-4x as much for maybe 20% more revenue.

[GG]

Whatever. If you can't piece that simple thing together you don't understand business either.

 

Three words:

 

Location, location, location.

 

You think I coined that?

 

Yeah, OK, I'm the one that doesn't understand business. OK

 

The others, besides you, that don't understand business are the politicians. They have absolutely no profit margin, no P/L to worry about as a result, constantly overspend, arbitrarily set their operating costs, like wages for government employees, and when they overspend they simply ask for more tax money and go fleece the sheep some more.

 

If a real busines owner could do that, ...

 

Except that buying a pro sports franchise, even in the NFL is not a formula for profit. The only hope to make a profit is on the subsequent sale of the team. The franchises do not generate nearly enough money to justify spending the $1 billion purchase price, let alone $2 billion or more. These are vanity plays by very rich guys who have the liquid cash to show off that they can be part of a very exclusive club. The location only matters for the owner to brag that he owns an LA franchise, rather than a Buffalo franchise. It has very little to do with economics.

[Ronin]

So you're going to ignore all of the facts from the other thread that discussed marketing limitations prior to the last 7-8 years with regard to Toronto in an attempt to further this agenda?

 

 

 

Ah, so in one post you say it's a "fact" that he made no arrangements, and then go on to admit you're guessing.

 

Pick one please.

 

Re: Toronto, I was replying to Wayne Cubed's implication that the Toronto metro area and suburbs were realistically in play in terms of factoring in the market for the team to remain in Buffalo. Couldn't you figure that out?

 

Clearly that isn't the case. The same people thinking that were the same people arguing about how we were going to finally make the playoffs over the last 10 years.

 

Re: the latter, first of all you need to reread that. Secondly, if in fact he had made such arrangements, wouldn't they be in play? There's not a reason in the world to hide it. The only card that could possibly be played in that regard is one that states that Ralph mandated selling the team to an owner that would keep it here, but that burden would then fall upon Mary Wilson and the others in the trust to use their judgement.

 

And think about it, for then how long would an owner have to keep it here? What, 10, 20, 30 years? You really think that a business owner is going to be tied to the wishes of a dead guy for the duration of his lifetime? You're crazy if you think that. The world doesn't work that way. And why all the hiding of things, things that every time something new is released it isn't good for us? I'll tell you why, as I've said all along, this was merely out of respect for the situation. It would have been incredibly disrespectful for all kinds of posturing going on regarding the sale of the team when an iconic owner had just passed away. But that after a certain amount of time had passed, exactly that would begin happening.

 

Also, how do you think that it would have played amongst the fan base if the trust/team had revealed that Wilson did in fact make no such arrangements? You really think that fans would have been respectful of our fearless owner that did all he could to keep the team in Buffalo?

 

Let me ask you? Wilson, being from Detroit, where do you think he would have put his team had Detroit not already had a team when he bought it? If you say Buffalo, well, I'll refrain from further comment.

 

If Wilson wanted that the only way to have secured it would be to have sold it himself, and then trusted that the person he sold it to, was being honest. No one can determine where a business owner locates his business for the long-term future. That's absurd.

 

You guys on the side of this argument that says that the team remains in Buffalo chances are 90% are dreaming. I'd say that it's more like 10%. If Buffalo didn't already have a team those chances dwindle to 0%.

 

Except Toronto has never been consider part of Buffalo's market, even though it's that close. It falls under NFL Canada and does not figure into Buffalo's numbers. And until recently Buffalo was unable to even market themselves in Toronto, because again, it fell under NFL Canada.

 

So what's your point? That we can avail ourselves of a market that has never been considered part of Buffalo's market?

 

Why are you arguing the points that I made? If you simply want to hear yourself argue, please pick another target.

 

If Toronto's a market in that way, the team will be in Toronto. People that think that we can tap that market with a team here in Buffalo, to the extent that it makes a difference in this scenario anyway, are the same types of people that thought that with the Fast Ferry in Rochester Torontoans would flock to Rochester to shop at the malls.

Edited June 2, 2014 by TaskersGhost

[Pondslider]

Let me ask you? Wilson, being from Detroit, where do you think he would have put his team had Detroit not already had a team when he bought it? If you say Buffalo, well, I'll refrain from further comment.

 

 

His first choice was Miami actually.

[Coach Tuesday]

Certain purchasers may have enough money where they will overpay by a lot and move the team when they can. I think it is that simple and this is the worst case scenario. There are billionaires with many more billions than Golisano, Pegula and Jacobs combined. No one thought the Clippers were worth $2 billion.

 

This is what I don't understand, here. If there are purchasers out there willing to shell out a quick $2B for the privilege of putting an NFL team in Los Angeles, than it should happen rather quickly - but not necessarily with the Bills. I have to think that there are ownership groups out there who would love that kind of return on their investment and whose franchises are mired in lagging markets without much fan support or the political protection that Western New York benefits from, i.e., San Diego, Jacksonville, St. Louis. If it's that economically advantageous and imminent for an LA team to exist, the best course of action for everyone is for the Bills to stay put, and one of those franchises to relocate (or, alternatively an outright expansion). It simply doesn't make sense at this point in the league's development to relocate a well-supported and storied franchise, especially one protected by political heavies like Schumer and Cuomo.

[ChevyVanMiller]

Was it not disclosed that there is a clause in the current lease that prohibits an owner from even discussing a move or new stadium with another city? To do so would cause a violation that would be the catalyst to a long, protracted lawsuit.

 

If that is indeed true, how can anyone buy the team now who would make their intent known of moving the team when the lease expires?

Edited June 2, 2014 by ChevyVanMiller

[Ronin]

Can we see some documentation confirming this fact? Do you somehow know the terms of Ralph's trust?

 

Can we see some documentation that it isnt' so?

 

Common sense, reason, and reading between the lines go far in situations like this.

 

I'll side with myself, who argued two months ago that this nonsense about the team taking years to sell was simply that, nonsense. Meanwhile, everyone rejoiced because they thought that bought us more time too, and that shortly thereafter fell flat too.

 

Honestly, the writing's on the wall. I want the team to stay as much as you or the next Bills fan, it's not like I want to see the leave the city. Unless of course Brandon and Littmann and Overdorf would continue to run the team for 20 more years, in which case I don't care, but presumably a new owner would change that.

 

Pretending that Wilson has done something that realistically makes no sense, pretending that Buffalo's bigger than it is financially, pretending that NYS is even among the top few states that isn't broke, pretending that Erie County has any leverage whatsoever, etc., is a fool's game. If you want to temporarily believe that, then feel free.

 

As everyone said earlier, Wilson's "big gift" to us was this lease that supposedly keeps the team here thru 2020. But I wouldn't even put a confederate dollar on that happening.

[yungmack]

Except that buying a pro sports franchise, even in the NFL is not a formula for profit. The only hope to make a profit is on the subsequent sale of the team. The franchises do not generate nearly enough money to justify spending the $1 billion purchase price, let alone $2 billion or more. These are vanity plays by very rich guys who have the liquid cash to show off that they can be part of a very exclusive club. The location only matters for the owner to brag that he owns an LA franchise, rather than a Buffalo franchise. It has very little to do with economics.

This is the real essence of the situation, & why I've gone from confident the Bills would remain in WNY to very concerned, in the wake of the Clippers sale.

[PromoTheRobot]

How does Polancarz acknowledging there are bidders looking to move the team turn into "OMG THE TEAM IS GONE!"