Captain Caveman Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 You and GregF have a better grasp on advanced estate planning than yours truly, but it would seem that a condition requiring an asset (team) to stay in one market would violate two rules: the fiduciary duty of the trustee to the beneficiaries (what if the market bottoms out in Buffalo but another city offers more income to the beneficiaries) and the rule against perpetuities (in that tying a team to a community in perpetuity may render the asset unmarketable ). I'll be interested to see how you and Greg resolve this. Interesting stuff. Isn't the greater duty of the trustees to carry out the wishes of the deceased?
BringBackFergy Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Isn't the greater duty of the trustees to carry out the wishes of the deceased? Certainly, unless the wishes of the deceased are deemed "illegal" or not contained within the four corners of the testamentary document in question. I'm with you...want the Bills to stay for a long, long time. Just addressing why Ralph's attorney may have said a provision in the trust keeping the Bills in Buffalo forever would be illegal.
BarleyNY Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I have been saying the same thing since it was known that the Bills were coming up for sale. The city has to put together it's best offer now, including a bright, shiny new stadium. The difference in value between a team in Buffalo playing at the Ralph and one playing in a new stadium in Toronto or Los Angeles is far too great. Buffalo needs to make it difficult for an owner to leave even if they can't quite compete with the Los Angeles. The time to do that is now, not in three or four years because by then it will be far too late. No new owner is going to buy the team without a plan and that plan isn't going to be "Buy the Bills and Hope Everything Works Out". If Buffalo doesn't have a solid deal on the table you can bet some other city will. Another city might anyway, but if Buffalo doesn't come to the table pre-sale then they are simply conceding losing the Bills. Then the city will end up trying to lure the Jags or another team here with at least as good of a deal. A deal they should have offered the Bills to stay. Isn't the greater duty of the trustees to carry out the wishes of the deceased? That is one hell of a hand to push all your chips in on. If that is what Buffalo is going to pin its hopes on then this is over - and not in a good way. I'm sure it will be a factor if bids are reasonably close. If not, then the decision is easy. Edited June 24, 2014 by BarleyNY
PromoTheRobot Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 If you guys think the rest of congress is going to go along with Chuckles and essentially kill the NFL in order to keep a team in Buffalo (and kill any chance they have at reelection in the process) then we agree to disagree. Billionaires that acquired their fortune through business eat politicians for breakfast. If this situation ever comes up (and I hope it does not) I fully expect all WNY politicians to do a lot of sabre rattling because they can't afford to look weak on this issue (again for reelection) but that's all it would amount to. Well we shall see, won't we. One thing we have all learned, political clout is for sale. I'll see your Schumer and raise you a Ted Cruz.
CodeMonkey Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Well we shall see, won't we. One thing we have all learned, political clout is for sale. I'll see your Schumer and raise you a Ted Cruz. Hopefully we won't see at all and someone who wants to keep the Bills right where they are buys the team! Edited June 24, 2014 by CodeMonkey
papazoid Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Certainly, unless the wishes of the deceased are deemed "illegal" or not contained within the four corners of the testamentary document in question. I'm with you...want the Bills to stay for a long, long time. Just addressing why Ralph's attorney may have said a provision in the trust keeping the Bills in Buffalo forever would be illegal. the key word in there is "forever". i'm fairly confident that the "first" buyer of the bills from Ralph's estate will be required to keep the bills in buffalo. after that, all bets are off. so hope a young person buys them.
BillnutinHouston Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 No new owner is going to buy the team without a plan and that plan isn't going to be "Buy the Bills and Hope Everything Works Out". I applaud the urgency you're projecting but I'm not sure that your statement is factually accurate. If an owner takes a leap of faith, he/she will do so knowing there's "only" a handful of years left on the lease, after which time the franchise is a free agent. So he can give Buffalo the benefit of the doubt initially but still relocate if WNY can't get it's act together. Or he can sell to yet another buyer who won't have the Erie County lease to contend with.
clearwater cadet Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Enjoy then while they last. Could be 1 season could be 30+
CodeMonkey Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I applaud the urgency you're projecting but I'm not sure that your statement is factually accurate. If an owner takes a leap of faith, he/she will do so knowing there's "only" a handful of years left on the lease, after which time the franchise is a free agent. So he can give Buffalo the benefit of the doubt initially but still relocate if WNY can't get it's act together. Or he can sell to yet another buyer who won't have the Erie County lease to contend with. Agreed. Most if not all potential buyers will be playing the long game knowing that they almost cannot lose money no matter what in the short term and there are only 32 teams and they don't become available very often.
thebandit27 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Enjoy then while they last. Could be 1 season could be 30+ Nope...bare minimum of 6 more; likely to be 30+ though.
CodeMonkey Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Nope...bare minimum of 6 more; likely to be 30+ though. I applaud your staunch and unwaivering defense of the "iron clad" lease sir Edited June 24, 2014 by CodeMonkey
thebandit27 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I applaud your staunch and unwaivering defense of the "iron clad" lease sir What can I say? When I see someone claim that they can somehow leave any time before the 7th year option I simply have to correct them--it is so impractical and loaded up against that it simply will not happen.
John from Riverside Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 How are the chances at 10 percent when one of the main suitors for the team is Terry Pegula who would be what....the 5th richest NFL owner should he buy the team and has the liquid money to make this happen?
A Dog Named Kelso Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 If the latest stories about Bon Jovi/MLSE wanting to play in Niagara Falls are true then a new stadium would have to be built for them. We are not building a new stadium without a very long term lease. Did you forget that part? Not sure if it has been asked since there have been multiple threads regarding the sale but can MLSE even acquire the team due to their NBA and NHL franchises or does there also require an NFL team be in that city?
CodeMonkey Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Not sure if it has been asked since there have been multiple threads regarding the sale but can MLSE even acquire the team due to their NBA and NHL franchises or does there also require an NFL team be in that city? I'm not sure, could be that Toronto is considered in the Bills "region", who knows. But MLSE is smart enough to know the rules and I'm sure they wouldn't be involved in the process at all if they were not eligible to own the team.
Direhard Fan Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Shame his wife hasn't given us insight on what the plan is if there is one. She has always been a big contributor to the Buffalo area. Strange she hasn't spoken up.
BarleyNY Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I applaud the urgency you're projecting but I'm not sure that your statement is factually accurate. If an owner takes a leap of faith, he/she will do so knowing there's "only" a handful of years left on the lease, after which time the franchise is a free agent. So he can give Buffalo the benefit of the doubt initially but still relocate if WNY can't get it's act together. Or he can sell to yet another buyer who won't have the Erie County lease to contend with. My thinking is this: While there might be an owner willing to go the route you are stating I can't imagine that they would be the winning bid. An owner who can only depend upon staying in Buffalo and playing at The Ralph will have a valuation of their potential investment in the Bills that is much less than an owner who prices in moving the team to a bigger city with a better/newer stadium. The potential owners will know their options in detail before valuing the team and putting together their bid. Buffalo needs to make sure that the valuation of the team staying in Buffalo is reasonably high. Even if they aren't as high as LA or even Toronto there are relocation costs including the relocation fees to the other NFL owners to consider as well as inherent risks in moving a team. Lastly, the PR of the situation matters a great deal. If Buffalo is at the table with a quality new stadium and deal it will be tough to justify a move. If it looks like there isn't support for such measures, well, I'd use the Baltimore Colts and Cleveland Browns as examples of that. Could a new owner assume that he's going to get a good deal here or simply move in a few years? Sure. But the problem with that is that potential owners are likely to be talking deals with new cities (as well as Buffalo) now. That's dangerous territory. Art Modell was a big voice in denying Baltimore an expansion team years before he moved the Browns there. Many people think he saw what they were offering and cut a deal to move the Browns to Baltimore years before it became public. I worry that someone cuts a similar deal with LA (or maybe even Toronto). Then they drag their feet (like Modell did) on the specifics of new stadium/renovated stadium front. Lots of public griping, but slow actual progress. Then it's too late and the reason given is that the city wasn't committed to supporting the team when, in reality, it was a done deal a long time before. I am a native Clevelander. I just don't want to see Buffalo lose the Bills and this situation looks way too familiar. What will likely keep the a Bills in town is getting a deal together a few years earlier than the lease says it needs to be in some incremental amount of money. It just isn't that much different.
TheFunPolice Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Ralph could have sold the team to anyone he wanted while he was alive, but he would have been wiped out by capital gains taxes PLUS then the estate would be taxed. So he did what he could: sign a lease that locks the team up for a handful of years and gives WNY a fighting chance. Pegula is about the only real hope.
Martifal Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Anyone remember "Buffalo home of the Braves" broke my heart when they left.
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