1B4IDie Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 And he also has our line in the top seven: link I want to believe it, I hope. See this kid doesn't know jack. It's top 3 and in the "elite" category.
Beerball Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Are you comfortable saying that the Bills have one of the top few front 7's in the league? Once I see production on the field? Sure. Till then...it's just names on a roster. Perhaps I should change my user name to Missouri.
hondo in seattle Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Yet we ranked towards the bottom in stopping the run in 2013. Why? We gave up a lot of rushing yards simply because we faced a lot of rushing attempts. Bills opponents ran against the Bills 507 times last year - most in the league. This was partly because we ran a up-tempo offense that didn't stay on the field long and partly because our opponents were often comfortable to sit on their lead given our offense rarely did much. Bills opponents averaged 4.4 yards per rush which is a little worse than then NFL average. But now we have Brandon Spikes. And if Hackett can find a way to build an offense that moves the chains and actually score once in a while, our D won't face so many rushing attempts this season. Edited May 31, 2014 by hondo in seattle
Ronin Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I don't see it. I love moving Kiko to OLB but he hasn't taken a snap there yet. Spikes has yet to prove he can be a nickel MLB. And who is the third LB? If Spikes can be a nickel MLB letting Kiko stay at OLB it would make the nickel defense special. Spikes, as we will all find out, just as NE fans did, absolutely sucks vs. the pass, which is most plays. He's an enormous liability on pass plays. That alone makes this guy ignorant. As others have said, Kiko will be in a different role, although I suspect he'll be fine. But then what, Lawson, who's never had success as an OLB in a 4-3? Who the hell writes these things. Shouldn't we as fans of the actual team know better and know our players better? Are we no better than the FO? Elite? No. Above Average? Perhaps. Underrated? Lawson is for sure. Lawson had one good season in terms of sacks, it was last season in our sack/pass-rush happy D. Meanwhile, how good was he, or any of the other LBs or front 4 in stopping the run since every Tom, Dick, and Harry RB tandem managed to look like Roger Craig and Tom Rathman against us. Are we all this short-sighted in our analyses here? Come on guys!! "Bills elite _____" is a phrase I have not heard in a long time. You're certainly not going to hear it regarding our LB corps this season. You'll be hearing about botched coverages by Spikes and "what happened to Lawson since he logged 4 whopping sacks last year in a pass-rush happy system. Kiko may be elite, but that hardly makes an elite corp. We gave up a lot of rushing yards simply because we faced a lot of rushing attempts. Bills opponents ran against the Bills 507 times last year - most in the league. This was partly because we ran a up-tempo offense that didn't stay on the field long and partly because our opponents were often comfortable to sit on their lead given our offense rarely did much. Bills opponents averaged 4.4 yards per rush which is a little worse than then NFL average. But now we have Brandon Spikes. And if Hackett can find a way to build an offense that moves the chains and actually score once in a while, our D won't face so many rushing attempts this season. We gave up a lot of passing TDs too given that we finished 2nd in the league in sacks. We allowed 28 passing TDs. One more and we would have been in a log-jam tie for 26th. The teams that were ranked 27th and 28th, GB and TB, had terrible D's. How do you reconcile that? When is everyone going to realize that last year this foolish team was so focused on logging sacks that they designed their entire D around that. They even said that prior to the season. They told us that. They put all their eggs into one basket, yet we still finished 6-10. The teams we faced didn't even have good offenses on average, we had it very easy last season. Even the Pats had their worst offense since probably Brady's first few seasons. This year we face more good offensive teams. The D isn't going to be better this year, it's going to be worse, and everyone's going to blame it on Schwartz, not the facts per above. There are other indicators besides pass rush. And frankly, those sacks didn't even help us against teams like NO and ATL, who both had great offensive days despite 10 sacks against them. Why does no one see this most simple of things?
Kirby Jackson Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Once I see production on the field? Sure. Till then...it's just names on a roster. Perhaps I should change my user name to Missouri. Haven't you see enough to feel this way? They have 4 of the top 84 players in the entire NFL plus the #1 ranked LB vs. the run and a guy with 10.5 sacks last year. That doesn't even get to Branch, Lawson, Rivers, Charles, etc... What more do you need to see? They are right there with SF (Bills have better DL, worse LBs) & STL. KC also has a very good and underrated front 7.
Lurker Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I'm curious why 'vanity sites' like the one linked by the OP carry any water with people? Danny Kelly's opinion is just another fart in the wind, given legitimacy by a bit of fancy html code.
Ronin Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Haven't you see enough to feel this way? They have 4 of the top 84 players in the entire NFL plus the #1 ranked LB vs. the run and a guy with 10.5 sacks last year. That doesn't even get to Branch, Lawson, Rivers, Charles, etc... What more do you need to see? They are right there with SF (Bills have better DL, worse LBs) & STL. KC also has a very good and underrated front 7. How come NE's D has been below average with Spikes on their team then, and among the best in the biz as a head coach? This is a passing first league, who cares if we have the #1 vs. the run LB. We're going to see first hand this season why the Pats let Spikes go. Most plays in the NFL are passing plays. 1st and 3rd downs are typically passing downs. Spikes is a terminal liability on all of them. I'm curious why 'vanity sites' like the one linked by the OP carry any water with people? Danny Kelly's opinion is just another fart in the wind, given legitimacy by a bit of fancy html code. Only because it's favorable. If it had said the opposite, that the Bills have a below average LB corps, which may be the case Kiko aside, then the writer would be a retard.
Beerball Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Haven't you see enough to feel this way? They have 4 of the top 84 players in the entire NFL plus the #1 ranked LB vs. the run and a guy with 10.5 sacks last year. That doesn't even get to Branch, Lawson, Rivers, Charles, etc... What more do you need to see? They are right there with SF (Bills have better DL, worse LBs) & STL. KC also has a very good and underrated front 7. What I know is the roster is much improved over last season. The change vs. 5-6 years ago is really marked. But, it takes more than a deep talented roster. How will the players gel with each other? Will the coaches play to the strengths of the roster or will they do what they've always done? Until I see what Schwartz does with the talent he's been given all I have a names on a roster. The names are better known than in past seasons, but, how many off seasons have we said..."this is the year we stop the run" only to go through another year of getting gouged? Go back and check...those threads are there from 2013, 2012 & 2011 etc. Missouri=show me
truth on hold Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Once I see production on the field? Sure. Till then...it's just names on a roster. Perhaps I should change my user name to Missouri. No doubt, but its notable how it reveals just how mediocre so many other teams are at the positions. To think Steelers are justifiably nowhere to be found. Author also makes a huge leap assuming bowman will ever be the same. Last year a case could have been made for cardinals last year too, but now both their all-pro MLBs are gone. Cleveland is another team to watch with fa addition of dansby and mingos 2nd year.
San-O Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Why? They did have a very nice group. Now, at least on paper, they have made the group even better. Looking at the stats, and the Bills were 10th overall in defense yards/game last year, and 20th overall in points/game, which is a little odd? And were 28th in the league rushing defense yards/game, which is no surprise. Where were all the points coming from? Did Special Team play, which slid about 20 positions down overall from what I have read, account for such bad field position and scoring to account for much of this? Any insight would be great.
Ronin Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 What more do you need to see? I need to see Chris Ivory and Bileal Powell not lighting us up whenever they play us. Ditto for a bunch of other no-name RB tandems last season. Were you aware that we only played against one top-15 RB last season? I also need to see us not finish 20th in scoring D, or on the fringe of the bottom quartile in passing TDs allowed. Did you ever ask yourself what difference all those sacks make if we can't prevent teams from throwing TDs against us? The New Orleans game is a fantastic example. 4 sacks but Brees had a career game. So is the Atlanta game, remember Atlanta, 2-14, 6 sacks, but Ryan had a very good game. Cincinnati, Dalton sacked 3 times but still had a great game. Other than NE those were the only top-10 passing offenses that we played last season, and NE was only ranked 10th in yardage, in passing TDs they were ranked tied for 13th. The sacks were irrelevant. What wasn't irrelevant was Ben Jarvis Green Ellis tearing us a new one and Cincy hitting us up for 165 rushing, or Atlanta hanging 151 rushing on us with a washed up Steven Jackson, or the Pats putting up 425 rushing yards in two games using primarily Blount and Vereen who both looked like Walter Payton. Yeah, Pettine was great last year.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Swchartz, the scheme and the secondary is really the biggest question mark I have going into the season regarding the defense.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) What I know is the roster is much improved over last season. The change vs. 5-6 years ago is really marked. But, it takes more than a deep talented roster. How will the players gel with each other? Will the coaches play to the strengths of the roster or will they do what they've always done? Until I see what Schwartz does with the talent he's been given all I have a names on a roster. The names are better known than in past seasons, but, how many off seasons have we said..."this is the year we stop the run" only to go through another year of getting gouged? Go back and check...those threads are there from 2013, 2012 & 2011 etc. Missouri=show me I hear you but they were middle of the road in YPC last year and added the #1LB vs. the run and a coach known to stop the run everywhere that he has been. That front 7 is definitely top end when it comes to pass rush so there cannot be much debate there. It is the offseason so every ranking is on paper at this point for all teams. How good is SF's front 7? It has been good but they have Aldon Smith in trouble and Bowman off of a massive operation. Everyone has questions but on paper it seems that the questions about the Bills have been answered. Edited May 31, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
Beerball Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Swchartz, the scheme and the secondary is really the biggest question mark I have going into the season regarding the defense. To piggyback on this...Why so much cover 2 so far in OTA's?
Kirby Jackson Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) I need to see Chris Ivory and Bileal Powell not lighting us up whenever they play us. Ditto for a bunch of other no-name RB tandems last season. Were you aware that we only played against one top-15 RB last season? I also need to see us not finish 20th in scoring D, or on the fringe of the bottom quartile in passing TDs allowed. Did you ever ask yourself what difference all those sacks make if we can't prevent teams from throwing TDs against us? The New Orleans game is a fantastic example. 4 sacks but Brees had a career game. So is the Atlanta game, remember Atlanta, 2-14, 6 sacks, but Ryan had a very good game. Cincinnati, Dalton sacked 3 times but still had a great game. Other than NE those were the only top-10 passing offenses that we played last season, and NE was only ranked 10th in yardage, in passing TDs they were ranked tied for 13th. The sacks were irrelevant. What wasn't irrelevant was Ben Jarvis Green Ellis tearing us a new one and Cincy hitting us up for 165 rushing, or Atlanta hanging 151 rushing on us with a washed up Steven Jackson, or the Pats putting up 425 rushing yards in two games using primarily Blount and Vereen who both looked like Walter Payton. Yeah, Pettine was great last year. So to that point you would say that the Bills front 7 is not one of the best in football? This despite the fact that 4 of the 7 are ranked in the top 84 players in the whole league. Another member of that front 7 graded out as the #1LB vs. the run and another member of the front 7 ha 10.5 sacks. You would say that this is not one of the best front 7's in the league because that is the question? Edited May 31, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
Ronin Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 What I know is the roster is much improved over last season. The change vs. 5-6 years ago is really marked. But, it takes more than a deep talented roster. How will the players gel with each other? Will the coaches play to the strengths of the roster or will they do what they've always done? Until I see what Schwartz does with the talent he's been given all I have a names on a roster. The names are better known than in past seasons, but, how many off seasons have we said..."this is the year we stop the run" only to go through another year of getting gouged? Go back and check...those threads are there from 2013, 2012 & 2011 etc. Missouri=show me The roster is hardly changed. Out as starters: Byrd, Stevie In: Spikes, Mike Williams, Watkins The rest are just backups and role players. Who cares. You're right about the players gelling, rather the chemistry. But that's going to be most important in the passing game where Manuel only has as a starting WR Woods from last season. Woods still hasn't even proven that he'll be a bona fide starting WR in the NFL. Neither Watkins nor Williams have ever caught a pass from Manuel. The play of the secondary is going to be huge this year, and right now it's worse than it was last year. Last season we played only 4 top-10 passing teams. This season we play 5 of the top-6 from last season.
KRT88 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 so we have a best LB corp and a great D-L.. OK, why can't we ever stop the run then? just wondering?
Beerball Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 So to that point you would say that the Bills front 7 is not one of the best in football? This despite the fact that 4 of the 7 are ranked in the top 84 players in the whole league. Another member of that front 7 graded out as the #1LB vs. the run and another member of the front 7 ha 10.5 sacks. You would say that this is not one of the best front 7's in the league because that is the question? Is CJ Spiller an elite RB? He has elite skills, does that make him an elite RB? The front 7 is one of the best in the league when they consistently beat the opposing offense.
Ronin Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Swchartz, the scheme and the secondary is really the biggest question mark I have going into the season regarding the defense. Agree, but a huge part of the play of the secondary is going to come down to the play of the LBs against the pass, and Spikes sucks against the pass. He could be the worst MLB in the league vs. the pass.
Beerball Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 The roster is hardly changed. Out as starters: Byrd, Stevie In: Spikes, Mike Williams, Watkins The rest are just backups and role players. Who cares. You're right about the players gelling, rather the chemistry. But that's going to be most important in the passing game where Manuel only has as a starting WR Woods from last season. Woods still hasn't even proven that he'll be a bona fide starting WR in the NFL. Neither Watkins nor Williams have ever caught a pass from Manuel. The play of the secondary is going to be huge this year, and right now it's worse than it was last year. Last season we played only 4 top-10 passing teams. This season we play 5 of the top-6 from last season. The roster has much more talent than in years past. That can't be argued IMO. Backups have a way of becoming starters due to injury. Role players who fill their role properly are important contributors to a team's success.
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