To Shed Some Light on the whole New Stadium thing ...

[thebandit27]

 

Passionate,and not rich, you mean. I'm heading towards the twilight of my working career. No way I'm ponying up $10K just for the right to buy tickets for my two seats.

 

That's ok...there only needs to be about 50,000 folks from WNY, Northern PA, and Southern Ontario (probably about 1.5M people in those areas combined--conservatively) that are willing to do so to make PSLs a massive success for supplementing stadium costs.

 

Sounds reasonable to me.

[machine gun kelly]

The original article convinces me even more we need to have the Stadium built in NF to capitalize on corporate dollars from Canada, and Rochester.

 

The other attractive part for these potential owners, is the tax write off for the next 15 years. They can sell the name of the stadium, and I do still believe the Bills stay in Buffalo.

[thebandit27]

The original article convinces me even more we need to have the Stadium built in NF to capitalize on corporate dollars from Canada, and Rochester.

 

The other attractive part for these potential owners, is the tax write off for the next 15 years. They can sell the name of the stadium, and I do still believe the Bills stay in Buffalo.

 

Good point regarding naming rights...I didn't really factor that in because I assumed it would be very small in comparison to other factors like PSLs.

 

Looking at some of the most recent naming rights deals makes me believe it will be a greater factor, as you point out:

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/5/8/4313344/49ers-levis-stadium-biggest-naming-rights-contracts

[mannc]

Donn Esmonde has a good article on the new stadium issue in today's BN. Bottom line: There is not enough corporate $ in the area for a new stadium, which would be all about maximizing luxury suite and PSL revenue, to make sense. The new stadium talk feels like Godell and the league imposing a condition that Buffalo likely won't be able or willing to meet. I agree with pretty much every word of it.

[thebandit27]

Donn Esmonde has a good article on the new stadium issue in today's BN. Bottom line: There is not enough corporate $ in the area for a new stadium, which would be all about maximizing luxury suite and PSL revenue, to make sense. The new stadium talk feels like Godell and the league imposing a condition that Buffalo likely won't be able or willing to meet. I agree with pretty much every word of it.

 

In one sentence he says if you repeat convention long enough you'll brlieve it, and then goes on to talk about the economic depression of the area, which is fast becoming an outdated sentiment. Duality IMO.

 

Also, he kills his own point when he quotes Polancarcz and the need for significant private funds:

 

If $200M comes from a new owner and $300M from PSLs, you cannot convince me that the state and county won't pitch in the final $200M to keep their only football team.

 

His article might be the poster child for the conventional wisdom he's cautioning against.

[mannc]

 

 

In one sentence he says if you repeat convention long enough you'll brlieve it, and then goes on to talk about the economic depression of the area, which is fast becoming an outdated sentiment. Duality IMO.

 

Also, he kills his own point when he quotes Polancarcz and the need for significant private funds:

 

If $200M comes from a new owner and $300M from PSLs, you cannot convince me that the state and county won't pitch in the final $200M to keep their only football team.

 

His article might be the poster child for the conventional wisdom he's cautioning against.

No, he does not talk about "economic depression". He says that there are relatively few wealthy corporations (and individuals) in WNY, a fact that is undeniable and not likely to change in the next decade or so. And he did not say building a new stadium could not be done--he said it makes little economic sense due to the scarcity of the type of corporate interests that would be needed to drive greatly increased revenue from a new stadium. Edited June 1, 2014 by mannc

[thebandit27]

No, he does not talk about "economic depression". He says that there are relatively few wealthy corporations (and individuals) in WNY, a fact that is undeniable and not likely to change in the next decade or so. And he did not say building a new stadium could not be done--he said it makes little economic sense due to the scarcity of the type of corporate interests that would be needed to drive greatly increased revenue from a new stadium.

 

So what exactly does he mean when he speaks of a "bleeding population" and a "shortage of fat-walleted fans"?

Edited June 1, 2014 by thebandit27

[PromoTheRobot]

No, he does not talk about "economic depression". He says that there are relatively few wealthy corporations (and individuals) in WNY, a fact that is undeniable and not likely to change in the next decade or so. And he did not say building a new stadium could not be done--he said it makes little economic sense due to the scarcity of the type of corporate interests that would be needed to drive greatly increased revenue from a new stadium.

So essentially Esmonde is saying Jerry Jones is right. Buffalo is small-time. Don't do anything to keep the Bills because it's a lost cause. Give up before the game even starts. Nice attitude.

 

You can argue that a 50 year old RWS is just fine. Heck the L.A. Colesium should be just dandy too. But the NFL has the right set it's standards and if we don't like it the NFL doesn't have to keep us in their club.

Edited June 1, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[mannc]

 

 

So what exactly does he mean when he speaks of a "bleeding population" and a "shortage of fat-walleted fans"?

Neither if those things equals "economic depression". Both have been facts of life in WNY for nearly 40 years. Do you deny that?

 

 

So essentially Esmonde is saying Jerry Jones is right. Buffalo is small-time. Don't do anything to keep the Bills because it's a lost cause. Give up before the game even starts. Nice attitude.

 

You can argue that a 50 year old RWS is just fine. Heck the L.A. Colesium should be just dandy too. But the NFL has the right set it's standards and if we don't like it the NFL doesn't have to keep us in their club.

Your first paragraph demonstrates poor reading comprehension, or at least a willful mischaracterization of the article. I agree with your last point, and that's why I have concerns about the team's long term future in Buffalo. Edited June 1, 2014 by mannc

[thebandit27]

Neither if those things equals "economic depression". Both have been facts of life in WNY for nearly 40 years. Do you deny that?

 

Then what's he saying if not that the area is economically depressed? You didn't answer that.

 

Re the "facts": As long as we're willing to ignore the last half-decade, sure, I'll go along with that.

[mannc]

 

 

Then what's he saying if not that the area is economically depressed? You didn't answer that.

 

Re the "facts": As long as we're willing to ignore the last half-decade, sure, I'll go along with that.

What he is saying is that there are not very many rich corporations (and zero Fortune 500 companies) based in WNY, and that the area is losing population every year. Have those things changed in the past "half decade"? Those two things are true of many regions in the US, by the way, and they do not make them "depressed", although some certainly are. Edited June 1, 2014 by mannc

[thebandit27]

What he is saying is that there are not very many rich corporations (and zero Fortune 500 companies) based in WNY, and that the area is losing population every year. Have those things changed in the past "half decade"? Those two things are true of many regions in the US, by the way, and they do not make them "depressed", although some certainly are.

 

No offense here: please do not tell me that you think he's referring to corporations when he speaks of a "population bleed" and "lack of fat-walleted fans", which were the two terms I asked you to define if (as you insinuate) they were not meant to refer to economic depression in the area.

 

If that's what you think, then in afraid you aren't understanding the context of the statements in which Esmonde used them.

[PromoTheRobot]

What he is saying is that there are not very many rich corporations (and zero Fortune 500 companies) based in WNY, and that the area is losing population every year. Have those things changed in the past "half decade"? Those two things are true of many regions in the US, by the way, and they do not make them "depressed", although some certainly are.

Yes, actually. The population loss has stopped and has even gone up just a hair. And while Buffalo won't be confused with Silicon Valley there are companies based in WNY, especially is you include Rochester and So. Ontario. We don't need a million people buying PSL's, just a few tens of thousands.

 

I'm sure if you asked Esmonde what he thought of building an ice rink/hotel complex next to an existing arena in Buffalo he would have said it was a dumb idea too.

[ALF]

The main thing is TV revenue and that's fine. A new dome will draw a good paying naming right from outside this area.

[mannc]

 

Yes, actually. The population loss has stopped and has even gone up just a hair. And while Buffalo won't be confused with Silicon Valley there are companies based in WNY, especially is you include Rochester and So. Ontario. We don't need a million people buying PSL's, just a few tens of thousands.

 

I'm sure if you asked Esmonde what he thought of building an ice rink/hotel complex next to an existing arena in Buffalo he would have said it was a dumb idea too.

I checked the recent census numbers and you are right about the population, but I am afraid the more important factor is the lack of the sort of corporate wealth in the area that drives increased revenue from new stadiums. Again, Buffalo is not alone in this regard but it is still a problem.

[TSNBDSC]

Bleeding ? Huh ? Erie County’s population stabilizes after years of losses http://www.buffalonews.com/20130612/erie_county_x2019_s_population_stabilizes_after_years_of_losses.html Stayin

[thebandit27]

As we now see, the "facts" aren't exactly what Mr. Esmonde claims.

[simpleman]

The original article convinces me even more we need to have the Stadium built in NF to capitalize on corporate dollars from Canada, and Rochester.

Do you even have a basic understanding of geography outside of the city limits? NF is actually further than OP when driving fo there from the area of the region to the east. Mileage using existing interstate infrastructure, which a majority of fans will use to attend games. Not to mention travel facility infrastructure from the I90 to NF faces significant facility weaknesses to handle bursts of traffic pre and post game. (commonly called potential traffic nightmares)

 

From Downtown Rochester and points east distances.

 

86.5 miles NF

80 miles OP

70 miles to outer harbor Buffalo

 

A NF location has Zero advantages to Central NY fans, in fact it is a negative. Outside any potential of Canadian fans, the NF location has zero positive impact on regionalization.

[thebandit27]

The main thing is TV revenue and that's fine. A new dome will draw a good paying naming right from outside this area.

 

Good point as well...I believe Buffalo was the 11th largest TV market in the NFL last year

[Kirby Jackson]

The Bills don't need 200,000 people from WNY to spend $10,000 - they need maybe 10% of that. The people that don't understand the economics of the NFL need to stop writing about it. All that it is doing is raising erroneous points and getting the masses all worked up.

 

The facts:

-A new stadium will be coming and has always been the plan after 2020

-In all likelihood it will contain PSLs

-The PSLs in Minnesota are $3k

-There will almost certainly be payment plans for the PSLs

 

WNY can afford to do what it will take to retain the team. I guess that what gets me going is the sentiment from those same people that "I can't believe that the NFL wants us to build a new stadium; we can't afford it." If you do not understand what a new stadium means and will entail then you are not qualified to write about it.

 

The Bills have been preparing and planning this for years. There should be zero concerns about the long term feasibility of the Bills in WNY. It is a non issue. The only thing that may be a factor is some guy with way too much money coming in and buying the Bills as a toy (see Steve Ballmer). These other concerns that the uneducated are raising are not worries to the Bills or the potential owners.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Kirby Jackson