thebandit27 Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Do you honestly believe Trump has any chance of getting this team or getting approval from the rest of the league's owners? Do you honestly believe that? I know you don't. In which case, this point is completely moot and proves my point that his press actually hurt him. The only reason we're talking about him at all is because he opened his mouth and said he wanted the team. Any chance? Yes. A great chance? No. As for approval, well, let's just say that NFL ownership is more optimistic than you are: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/15/trump-has-realistic-shot-of-being-approved/ Even the more skeptical owners believe it could happen: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/20/one-owner-says-trumps-confirmation-wouldnt-be-a-slam-dunk/ “[Trump] said a lot of stupid things, and a lot of us still remember it,” said the unnamed owner, who reportedly laughed at Trump’s claim that he didn’t sue the NFL. “If he ends up being the only guy interested in buying the Bills, then he could be it. I know Jon Bon Jovi is a serious contender. I think there will be some competition.” And of course the reason we're talking about him is because he said he wanted the team...why else would his name come up on a Bills' message board?
May Day 10 Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 The average NFL owner makes a lot more than 10%(sound expectation for "otherwise invested") on their $. Moreover, the average owner has financed their ownership(why the F would you do it for cash? Unless you have Pegula $, no reason. Even if you have Pegula $, no reason). So, their "investment" only amounts to ~50% of the buy. Trump is no fool, and he'll probably leverage the hell out of this(as much as the NFL lets him get away with it. They usually have a min. cash requirement.) Any NFL owner, short of complete melt down, are a lock to service their debt, so the banks line up to lend and get 3% on ~a billion(and the banker that closes that deal makes a killing). Therefore the owners end up making 20-30% on their $(merch, rights, etc.). They use part of the profits to service debt, and they couldn't care less if it takes 30 years to pay it off, as inflation handles the rest. And, if they want/need to get out? They stand to get a 50% ROI at least, over top of the profits they've already accrued = Galisano's ROI on the Sabres. I don't see why Trump would be any different. In fact, I'd be a lot more worried if Trump DID do it for cash. Wholly owned is a lot easier to transfer. You said "average" owner. Buffalo/WNY is well below average, while there are a couple extraordinary markets out there where an NFL team can make more, and people may be flexing huge cash in the owner's direction in around 7 years time.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Any chance? Yes. A great chance? No. As for approval, well, let's just say that NFL ownership is more optimistic than you are: http://profootballta...being-approved/ Even the more skeptical owners believe it could happen: http://profootballta...be-a-slam-dunk/ “[Trump] said a lot of stupid things, and a lot of us still remember it,” said the unnamed owner, who reportedly laughed at Trump’s claim that he didn’t sue the NFL. “If he ends up being the only guy interested in buying the Bills, then he could be it. I know Jon Bon Jovi is a serious contender. I think there will be some competition.” And of course the reason we're talking about him is because he said he wanted the team...why else would his name come up on a Bills' message board? So.... The NFL thinks Trump might get approved if and only if he's the only buyer. :lol: Trump's toxicity in the media works against him. That's my point. And so far all you've done is reinforce that notion. So cheers.
bbb Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 No offense but to the bold, George W. Bush graduated from both Yale and Harvard Business School. Sure, for your average American it's prestigious and a sign of intelligence to graduate from these Ivy league schools. This is mostly due to the struggle to be one of the few who have a successful application into those Universities and their very high expectations. But this isn't the same for the very wealthy, who can promise donations etc. and almost guarantee their sons/daughters placement. Yeah, whatever happened to that guy. Oh yeah - he became President of the United States of America aka the Most Powerful Man in the World.
thebandit27 Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 So.... The NFL thinks Trump might get approved if and only if he's the only buyer. :lol: Trump's toxicity in the media works against him. That's my point. And so far all you've done is reinforce that notion. So cheers. Now that's a convenient way of characterizing the point...perhaps read BOTH links next time: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/15/trump-has-realistic-shot-of-being-approved/ “I don’t see why not,” a source with direct knowledge of the dynamics of team ownership told PFT on Tuesday. “He’s the only one saying it will stay in Buffalo.” “I don’t think there are nine people to stop him,” the source said, in reference to the fact that nine “no” votes from other owners can block the sale. Trump's reputation in the media will have very little, if any, impact on whether or not he's approved as an owner (if indeed his bid is even the winner). His action plan surrounding a stadium and his approach to partnership will matter much, much more.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Now that's a convenient way of characterizing the point...perhaps read BOTH links next time: http://profootballta...being-approved/ “I don’t see why not,” a source with direct knowledge of the dynamics of team ownership told PFT on Tuesday. “He’s the only one saying it will stay in Buffalo.” “I don’t think there are nine people to stop him,” the source said, in reference to the fact that nine “no” votes from other owners can block the sale. Trump's reputation in the media will have very little, if any, impact on whether or not he's approved as an owner (if indeed his bid is even the winner). His action plan surrounding a stadium and his approach to partnership will matter much, much more. :lol: :lol: The NFL is one of, if not the most brand conscious professional sports leagues in existence. The first thing they tell every rookie at the symposium, the first thing they tell any new employee on any team is what? "Protect the shield". To say with a straight face that Trump's reputation and media presence will have no impact on the decision is to live in fantasy land. He has zero shot of getting the team. Zero.
GA BILLS FAN Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) I think the Trump-haters are diminishing their own argument --- if you want to argue you don't want him as owner because you don't like his personality or style or politics or tweets etc. etc. --- do it all day, everyday --- that's your opinion and you all are entitled to want a certain type of owner with a certain style, personality and politics --- but please don't argue he inherited his wealth, or that he's not charitable, or that he's not intelligent or that his bankruptcies make him unsuccessful -- those are non-starters because the facts speak for themselves --- that's where I interjected myself into the argument -- to say the man isn't intelligent is inaccurate -- to say he failed at business because he filed for bankruptcy is inaccurate and to say he inherited his wealth is inaccurate ---- as many others has also pointed out -- most billionaires have egos, most have failed once if not more times and most are smarter than most of us on this board, even if they always don't sound like they are --- thahth :lol: :lol: The NFL is one of, if not the most brand conscious professional sports leagues in existence. The first thing they tell every rookie at the symposium, the first thing they tell any new employee on any team is what? "Protect the shield". To say with a straight face that Trump's reputation and media presence will have no impact on the decision is to live in fantasy land. He has zero shot of getting the team. Zero. :lol: :lol: The NFL is one of, if not the most brand conscious professional sports leagues in existence. The first thing they tell every rookie at the symposium, the first thing they tell any new employee on any team is what? "Protect the shield". To say with a straight face that Trump's reputation and media presence will have no impact on the decision is to live in fantasy land. He has zero shot of getting the team. Zero. While I agree, on the surface he'd have a harder time being approved vs. Jacobs, Pegula and Golisano -- he's the most pre-vetted of the candidates for ownership that are on the list and besides being opinionated and a publicity hound, there are no disqualifiers in his background --- another point to make, if he gets approved by the 4-member voting trust, the owners WILL approve him --- the issue DT will have is winning the bid and getting past the 4-member group, not the NFL owners approving him Edited May 28, 2014 by TXBILLSFAN
OCinBuffalo Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) May be all well and true OC, but lets put it in a way that you might understand....if I have two guys with a lot of money who can both afford to buy the team I love, and one is a loutish ass-hole, and the other, equally wealthy, behaves like an adult, I am probably going with the one who behaves like an adult. Style points! It has absolutely nothing to do with politics. I wouldn't want Michael Moore owning the Bills any more than Trump. Is it a coincidence that everyone who is pro-Trump in this thread, tends to lean right? I would say, your opinions of Trump as Bills owner, are no less tainted by politics than anyone who doesn't want him owning the team. Hell, I find the whole fracking industry pretty repulsive, as it is now, but I would still be 100% behind Pegula owing the Bills. The only coincidence, if there is one, is that yet again, we have one group of people who bring logic, knowledge, and their own relevant experience(in some cases extensive) in business to the discussion...and another group that brings emoting, class nonsense, character assassination, and obvious ignorance("Trump filed for bankruptcy!" /facepalm) to the discussion. And we know this by your groundless assumption: that I want Trump to buy the Bills, or, that I wouldn't easily choose Pegula over Trump. Where the hell did I say that? I would take Pegula in a heart beat. I'm just not dumb enough to think we live in a zero-sum world. We do not. Trump is a viable option. By definition, all options are on the table. Anything else is silliness. And, that's not based on some irrational speculation, or non-fact I've generated for this argument. It's not based on my own insecuity/feelings of inadequacy, on my willingness to blame others for my lot in life, or on my envy of Trump's success. It's not based on any of those things. It's based on the empirical evidence we have of what "owning a team" looks like, and means, for Terry Pegula. Pegula has shown that not only is he a strong leader, he's very insightful. Example: How dumb do the people who wanted D'Arcy Regier/Lindy Ruff fired immediately look now? Pegula would have split the fanbase with that move. Instead, he allowed both to fire themselves, and remove all doubt. In doing so, Pegula united the fanbase. No fan base in the NHL is in better shape going through this tank than Sabres is today, and that might be an all-time thing. That took strength, and insight. Different thing with Lafontaine. When it was moving day? There was no hesitation. That's because: it was moving day. Thus, Pegula is a thinker, a good leader, and an even better manager, and he's proven that. He's also strong enough to do the difficult, but right, thing. That's why I want him as an owner. I've seen him do it. Edited May 28, 2014 by OCinBuffalo
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Everyone has their own ideal situation for the owner but here is why you should want Donald Trump as the next owner... 1) He does not take failure as an option. 2) He does not take sh**from anyone 4) He will NEVER be called cheap. In fact I think he likes to overspend to get what he wants. TRUMP for Owner in 2014... Now for all the haters on why my opinion sucks... 1) well he can and will. but by then he calls it a business for sale. 2) quite true .... just as his hair stylist 4) Good business owners are cheap by nature. Don't overspend and get the best ROI. 9) He's too political to be an Owner. He's a Birther through and through, hell even this week he tried a new twist to the birther story.
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 The average NFL owner makes a lot more than 10%(sound expectation for "otherwise invested") on their $. Moreover, the average owner has financed their ownership(why the F would you do it for cash? Unless you have Pegula $, no reason. Even if you have Pegula $, no reason). So, their "investment" only amounts to ~50% of the buy. Trump is no fool, and he'll probably leverage the hell out of this(as much as the NFL lets him get away with it. They usually have a min. cash requirement.) Any NFL owner, short of complete melt down, are a lock to service their debt, so the banks line up to lend and get 3% on ~a billion(and the banker that closes that deal makes a killing). Therefore the owners end up making 20-30% on their $(merch, rights, etc.). They use part of the profits to service debt, and they couldn't care less if it takes 30 years to pay it off, as inflation handles the rest. And, if they want/need to get out? They stand to get a 50% ROI at least, over top of the profits they've already accrued = Galisano's ROI on the Sabres. I don't see why Trump would be any different. In fact, I'd be a lot more worried if Trump DID do it for cash. Wholly owned is a lot easier to transfer. And I suspect the idea of maximizing profits is not what is motivating a guy like Trump here. The motivation is the spotlight, being 1 of 32 guys in the world that owns an NFL franchise. The real thing, not some fantasy league team, maybe a $1 billion entry fee to get into the club. I doubt any of the other guys willing to keep the team in WNY are focused on maximum profits either. If they were they'd probably invest their money elsewhere and probably do better. They have pretty much everything they need and want, what's another hundred million more going to do for them? Their motivation is the pursuit of prestige and power not money from this. Lots of concerns about meddling owners and wanting a hands off guy. No matter who it is I don't see anybody saying 'here's a billion dollars of my money, go do what you want and I won't bother you'. What you'll get from each of the prospective buyers is a varying level of patience with holding others accountable. An owner like Pegula, as noted by his handling of Reiger, might be a little more tolerant and have a higher threshold of patience but in the end he's going to hold people accountalble. Trump probably would have canned Darcy on day one. Still, I don't see Trump as being on the extreme fringe as a guy like Jerry Jones. He thinks it was him that built the Super Bowl Cowboys teams and that Jimmy Johnson was just along for the ride.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 While I agree, on the surface he'd have a harder time being approved vs. Jacobs, Pegula and Golisano -- he's the most pre-vetted of the candidates for ownership that are on the list and besides being opinionated and a publicity hound, there are no disqualifiers in his background --- There are PLENTY of reasons to disqualify Trump if you're the NFL. This one being the biggest: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130509/usfl-tim-tebow/
May Day 10 Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 It's based on the empirical evidence we have of what "owning a team" looks like, and means, for Terry Pegula. Pegula has shown that not only is he a strong leader, he's very insightful. Example: How dumb do the people who wanted D'Arcy Regier/Lindy Ruff fired immediately look now? Pegula would have split the fanbase with that move. Instead, he allowed both to fire themselves, and remove all doubt. In doing so, Pegula united the fanbase. No fan base in the NHL is in better shape going through this tank than Sabres is today, and that might be an all-time thing. That took strength, and insight. I think you are off base with that one. People were ready to burn HSBC if we didnt see R&R's heads roll... then Pegula bought the team and people 'lived' with giving R&R a chance due to the 8th place run and the promise of all this money being thrown at the situation. I R&R were shown the door after the season everyone would have been just as happy.
thebandit27 Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 :lol: :lol: The NFL is one of, if not the most brand conscious professional sports leagues in existence. The first thing they tell every rookie at the symposium, the first thing they tell any new employee on any team is what? "Protect the shield". To say with a straight face that Trump's reputation and media presence will have no impact on the decision is to live in fantasy land. He has zero shot of getting the team. Zero. Good thing then that there aren't owners like Irsay (who gets busted with drugs), Haslam (who owns a company rife with fraud), or Wilf (found guilty of fraud and racketeering)...but don't let that get in the way of your argument.
OCinBuffalo Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 You said "average" owner. Buffalo/WNY is well below average, while there are a couple extraordinary markets out there where an NFL team can make more, and people may be flexing huge cash in the owner's direction in around 7 years time. I did say average. I should have said "all NFL owners". It seems I find myself asking this question every 3 years or so: Which makets? And, before you answer, which markets that don't cut into an existing owner's market? Which markets that aren't LA, since LA is a such a good NFL market, that it hasn't had a team for 20 years? And, which team that isn't San Diego, since they've been penciled in to move to LA for 10 years now. This is the same old thing: "we should have traded down"....but...."I can't tell you to whom, or which player they wanted to come up and get". At some point, perhaps in another 10 years? Posters are going to understand what a "stalking horse" is, and that LA is perhaps the best use of this tactic on record. When was the last time a city/team had a real stadium fight? Compare that to 10 years ago. Oh wait:
Dante Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 To complete the trump circus would be him naming Gary Busey as the new GM............... He would be the most hands on owner since Eddie D with none of the success. You just came up with the best concept for a movie in a long time.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Good thing then that there aren't owners like Irsay (who gets busted with drugs), Haslam (who owns a company rife with fraud), or Wilf (found guilty of fraud and racketeering)...but don't let that get in the way of your argument. Irsay was inherited and is second generation. Haslam and Wilf didn't have half of the exposure Trump has before they were approved as owners -- even more to the point, their transgressions were news and a slap in the face to the NFL. Think they want to repeat their mistake with Trump? Come on, you're reaching now for straws. Weak straws.
GA BILLS FAN Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 There are PLENTY of reasons to disqualify Trump if you're the NFL. This one being the biggest: http://sportsillustr...usfl-tim-tebow/ That's old news and wouldn't stand in the way of getting approved. NFL owners first and foremost want someone with the financial chops to buy the team AND someone without a "shady" background, given the issues recently with Haslam, Wilf and others. Trump clears both hurdles.
thebandit27 Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Irsay was inherited and is second generation. Haslam and Wilf didn't have half of the exposure Trump has before they were approved as owners -- even more to the point, their transgressions were news and a slap in the face to the NFL. Think they want to repeat their mistake with Trump? Come on, you're reaching now for straws. Weak straws. No, I'm simply pointing out to you that the league doesn't care anywhere near as much about image as they do about profit. If you want to consider that a "weak straw", then I'll ask you to give me one example that indicates that the converse is true. Oh, and Wilf's case had been ongoing for over 20 years.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 No, I'm simply pointing out to you that the league doesn't care anywhere near as much about image as they do about profit. If you want to consider that a "weak straw", then I'll ask you to give me one example that indicates that the converse is true. Oh, and Wilf's case had been ongoing for over 20 years. Wilf's case wasn't made until after his ownership was approved. Ditto with Haslam. Not before. That's a HUGE difference. Trump's warts are not only known, he advertises them. The NFL, if anything, is more risk-adverse to questionable owners on the heels of Wilf and Haslam and Irsay which is further reason why Trump has ZERO shot of getting approved. Zero. Again, you're arguing just to argue now.
thebandit27 Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Wilf's case wasn't made until after his ownership was approved. Ditto with Haslam. Not before. That's a HUGE difference. Trump's warts are not only known, he advertises them. The NFL, if anything, is more risk-adverse to questionable owners on the heels of Wilf and Haslam and Irsay which is further reason why Trump has ZERO shot of getting approved. Zero. Again, you're arguing just to argue now. Yes, I'm the one doing that...okay then...have a good day.
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