CJ Spillers increased role in offense?

[HamSandwhich]

You missed the point. No one is saying 6.0 YPC is not spectacular...However just having a good YPC, doesn't mean he's a dominant RB. In fact by all other measures he certainly has not been. That's the point. Maybe he can be, he's shown signs...but so far he has not done it for a full season, even that season.

 

Rob Johnson had 3 straight years with a 100+ QBR, it does not mean he was a spectacular QB.

 

No I get the point, with Spiller, for that year, you have to change the idea of "dominant RB". He was dominant, defenses had to gamplan for him and gameplan again, and they STILL could not stop him that year. He was unstopable when he had the ball. Thats dominant!

[mrags]

It's SPILLER TIME!!

 

With this being Spiller's contract year, much better players around him, the coaches now familiar with him, and an increased role in the offense, expect CJ to have a big year for us this year.

 

He is a touchdown just waiting to happen.

i will agree that IF he stays healthy, he has much better help around him and should produce this season. Not betting on it. But it should happen.

[HamSandwhich]

unfortunately, you cannot or never could rely on him to do it. Even in that "spectacular" season, he was injured twice. A RB has to be relied on. He's got to be one of the foundations for the team. And when he's out, it hurts the overall progress of the team.

 

His Achilles heelsis certainly his health, and thats what I mean when I said in an earlier statement that he's not a bruiser.

[mrags]

 

 

I will agree he doesnt fit the mold of a big bruiser, shove it down the throat of the opposing D, type back. However he needs to be on the field much more often to open up the D with the threat of his homerun play. He can't be that "homerun" type player if he's not getting the type of plays that put him in the best position, and that's where Hackett's play calling comes in.

and I agree with this. I just don't want that type of omayer on this team. A "homerun" threat at any time but the times where he doesn't hit it he loses 3 yards. I'm not a fan of it. I want consistency.

[HamSandwhich]

and I agree with this. I just don't want that type of omayer on this team. A "homerun" threat at any time but the times where he doesn't hit it he loses 3 yards. I'm not a fan of it. I want consistency.

 

Sounds like you're on the Marrone school of thought

 

He seems to want those big durable backs that can pound it. That's not a bad idea, but while we have Spiller, might as well use him right!

[The Big Cat]

 

I will not be counted as one who did not like Gailey's offense. I really enjoyed his offenses, very exciting. You're asking people to expain what they mean by "space" when screen/spread offense is exactly how you get him in space. I'm not saying the entire offense should consist of this, but elements and maybe a few of his plays should be applied.

 

I liked them too. But many did not. I thought Spiller should get more touches. Was Gailey crazy like a fox? May be.

 

I'm also adamant that lining four wide with Spiller in the backfield means you've got three and a half solid lineman protecting any number of quarterbacks who simply cannot mask the line's deficiencies with quick reads and throws like Fitz did. I'm not sure what has some posters convinced that would have gone well.

[mrags]

 

 

Sounds like you're on the Marrone school of thought

 

He seems to want those big durable backs that can pound it. That's not a bad idea, but while we have Spiller, might as well use him right!

i agree with that. I'm not against it at all. Id just rather rely on my back to get me 3-5 yards a carry with every 10 breaking for 15 than a RB that gets me 1-3 yards and every 15 breaks one for 30.

[Turbosrrgood]

No I get the point, with Spiller, for that year, you have to change the idea of "dominant RB". He was dominant, defenses had to gamplan for him and gameplan again, and they STILL could not stop him that year. He was unstopable when he had the ball. Thats dominant!

 

Ok, we are switching from stats, to opinions. If you're opinion was that he's dominant, I'm fine with that...However I was simply countering an idea that his 6.0 YPC somehow made everything else not matter.

 

The fact is, he had a very long stretch that year where he wasn't very productive, including an 8 game stretch without topping 100 yards, and 5 games in which he ran for less than 50 yards. My opinion of his season from watching it, and from the TOTAL picture from all of the stats, not just one, is that he was very inconsistent and it was not a dominant season. He had some dominant games, and dominant plays...but IMO, that's not enough to be considered a top RB. If he does it for a full season, then I'll believe.

 

People get so defensive about their favorite players, so I'll offer this disclaimer. I don't think CJ sucks, I DO think he can have an amazing season if everything works out (gameplan, Oline, Health). I just think he's had only one pretty good season in the NFL, and even that one wasn't consistent.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Turbosrrgood

[HamSandwhich]

Ok, we are switching from stats, to opinions. If you're opinion was that he's dominant, I'm fine with that...However I was simply countering an idea that his 6.0 YPC somehow made everything else not matter.

 

The fact is, he had a very long stretch that year where he was mostly ineffective, including an 8 game stretch without topping 100 yards, and 5 games in which he ran for less than 50 yards. My opinion of his season from watching it, and from the TOTAL picture from all of the stats, not just one, is that he was very inconsistent and it was not a dominant season. He had some dominant games, and dominant plays...but IMO, that's not enough to be considered a top RB.

 

Fair enough

 

Maybe it's a case of seeing the past as a little rosier than it actually had been, but I don't really remember him struggling at all that year. I guess that's where you look at the stats.

Edited May 27, 2014 by HamSandwhich

[Turbosrrgood]

Fair enough

 

Maybe it's a case of seeing the past as a little rosier than it actually had been, but I don't really remember him struggling at all that year. I guess that's where you look at the stats.

 

Well my opinion is this, CJ was used mostly as a change of pace back that year, which worked very well for him. He ran mostly out of the shotgun, and was used on screens. When he has space, there's no question he can excel.

 

The issues I have is that he has yet to show he can handle the load of a #1 RB. In 2012 he had some good games as a starter when FJ was hurt, he also had some where he didn't do much, but even that sample size was small. Everyone knows Spiller has rare speed and the potential for big things...I just want to see it full time, for a full season (this season!), before I can refer to his NFL success as great or spectacular.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Turbosrrgood

[mrags]

 

 

Ok, we are switching from stats, to opinions. If you're opinion was that he's dominant, I'm fine with that...However I was simply countering an idea that his 6.0 YPC somehow made everything else not matter.

 

The fact is, he had a very long stretch that year where he wasn't very productive, including an 8 game stretch without topping 100 yards, and 5 games in which he ran for less than 50 yards. My opinion of his season from watching it, and from the TOTAL picture from all of the stats, not just one, is that he was very inconsistent and it was not a dominant season. He had some dominant games, and dominant plays...but IMO, that's not enough to be considered a top RB. If he does it for a full season, then I'll believe.

 

People get so defensive about their favorite players, so I'll offer this disclaimer. I don't think CJ sucks, I DO think he can have an amazing season if everything works out (gameplan, Oline, Health). I just think he's had only one pretty good season in the NFL, and even that one wasn't consistent.

perfectly said. And this thread should now be closed because of this. Nothing more can be said that is so correct or so perfect. Well done.

 

Mods... Shut this B word down.

[HamSandwhich]

Well my opinion is this, CJ was used mostly as a change of pace back that year, which worked very well for him. He ran mostly out of the shotgun, and was used on screens. When he has space, there's no question he can excel.

 

The issues I have is that he has yet to show he can handle the load of a #1 RB. In 2012 he had some good games as a starter when FJ was hurt, he also had some where he didn't do much, but even that sample size was small. Everyone knows Spiller has rare speed and the potential for big things...I just want to see it full time, for a full season, before I can refer to his NFL accomplishments as great or spectacular.

 

I dont think he's great in the sense of the word that he's up there with the best of them career wise, I mean he is great when he's put in those positions, and can one day be mentioned with those guys if he could do it consistently. I alluded earlier that he had numbers that were up there with the rest of the leagues best, IE Adrian Peterson, but that was not consistent as you point out. That's why we need to get him in the best possible situation, and that's not what Hackett had done last year. He tried to fit Spiller into HIS offense, why not create plays for Spillers specific skill set?

[frogger]

Also, watch Anthony Dixon's roll expand into a more defined FB position. As a fullback he presents several match up issues and has the athletic ability to lead outside.

[The Big Cat]

I dont think he's great in the sense of the word that he's up there with the best of them career wise, I mean he is great when he's put in those positions, and can one day be mentioned with those guys if he could do it consistently. I alluded earlier that he had numbers that were up there with the rest of the leagues best, IE Adrian Peterson, but that was not consistent as you point out. That's why we need to get him in the best possible situation, and that's not what Hackett had done last year. He tried to fit Spiller into HIS offense, why not create plays for Spillers specific skill set?

 

May be he doesn't think Spiller is good enough to build an offense around. Or may be he thinks the offense you would build around him isn't the one you need to win a championship. Is it fair to assume the reality of either of those things? I think so.

 

I also think it's clear (as has already been mentioned here), Marrone wants a guy he can rely on getting 3-6 yards each and every time.

 

It's my opinion that a back that can consistently produce (there's that word again) pays greater dividends in the wins column than a guy who goes 2, 4, 1, 0, 6, -2, 1, 3, 1, -4, 68, like Spiller does.

[Turbosrrgood]

I dont think he's great in the sense of the word that he's up there with the best of them career wise, I mean he is great when he's put in those positions, and can one day be mentioned with those guys if he could do it consistently. I alluded earlier that he had numbers that were up there with the rest of the leagues best, IE Adrian Peterson, but that was not consistent as you point out. That's why we need to get him in the best possible situation, and that's not what Hackett had done last year. He tried to fit Spiller into HIS offense, why not create plays for Spillers specific skill set?

 

I agree, and I think most Bills fans feel this way. I was ok with trying to do certain things with Spiller, but when they didn't work they shouldn't have just kept doing those same failed things over and over. Hackett's shortcomings affected more than Spiller, but the whole offense IMO. I could go on and on about that, but I'll stop here.

 

Certainly there are many things working in Spillers favor this year. A much improved oline (on paper), the coaching staff in their second year, better WR's (less 8 man fronts?) and hopefully EJ/CJ will be healthy.

 

This is the year if he's going to show us that next step.

[HamSandwhich]

May be he doesn't think Spiller is good enough to build an offense around. Or may be he thinks the offense you would build around him isn't the one you need to win a championship. Is it fair to assume the reality of either of those things? I think so.

 

I also think it's clear (as has already been mentioned here), Marrone wants a guy he can rely on getting 3-6 yards each and every time.

 

It's my opinion that a back that can consistently produce (there's that word again) pays greater dividends in the wins column than a guy who goes 2, 4, 1, 0, 6, -2, 1, 3, 1, -4, 68, like Spiller does.

 

I'm not so sure I would agree with that statement. I think its more that he's never had a back like Spiller so he's not sure how to utilize him. I hope he's learned at this point. We'll never know, unless he comes out and says it.

 

I digress though, there's been some good converstation on this topic between a number of us, and I've enjoyed it. Ultimately, it will all play out on the field and we will see if Hackett has created a niche for Spiller or has not. Or maybe Spiller continues to miss his reads and keeps running into the backs of the Oline. Whether that is Hackett's fault, Spiller's fault, the Olines fault, or a mixture of all of the above, I think we'll continue to debate it over the season. It's a nice story line to follow, and with the talent we have at RB, a good problem to have.

 

Go Bills!!!

[smapdi]

 

 

Well my opinion is this, CJ was used mostly as a change of pace back that year, which worked very well for him. He ran mostly out of the shotgun, and was used on screens. When he has space, there's no question he can excel.

 

The issues I have is that he has yet to show he can handle the load of a #1 RB. In 2012 he had some good games as a starter when FJ was hurt, he also had some where he didn't do much, but even that sample size was small. Everyone knows Spiller has rare speed and the potential for big things...I just want to see it full time, for a full season (this season!), before I can refer to his NFL success as great or spectacular.

 

I agree that Spiller will never be that ideal "#1 RB" that you can give 20 carries a game to and pound the defense into submission. That's not his game. We also don't need him to do that with FJax and Bryce Brown.

 

2012 was a perfect model of how he should be used. Around 200 carries and another 50 receptions. That's about 17 touches a game.

 

He can dictate how the defense plays when he's on his game like he was in 2012. Last year was disappointing, there's no doubt about it. That injury played a major role; a high ankle sprain is one of the worst injuries a RB can get. Especially a back like Spiller whose best asset is his ability to cut on a dime and make guys miss. Then there was the poor line play. Along with terrible QB play after Manuel went down made the offense one dimensional.

 

I see him returning to 2012 form with the way the offense is shaping up. If Manuel can stay healthy, they'll actually be able to pass the ball & defenses won't just be able to stack the box knowing they have to run ball

 

[John from Riverside]

Spiller was successful when Chan got him into space.....they need to do that again.......

[Buftex]

I feel like I am watching a different team than so many here, half the time.

[Wayne Cubed]

The fact is, he had a very long stretch that year where he wasn't very productive, including an 8 game stretch without topping 100 yards, and 5 games in which he ran for less than 50 yards...

 

To the quoted stat, I'm sorry but that is completely cherry picking. Sure it looks bad if you just list total yards for the game, but not in the context of how many times he touched the ball. For those 5 games below 50 yards his attempts were: 4, 8, 7, 6, 7. And his yards per carry were 4, 4.1, 3.4, 6.5, 5.3.

 

The guy was averaging over 4 yards a carry, except 1 game. To me this screams of not giving him the ball enough. You expect a running back to have high yards per game, but expect him to do it on less than 10 carries?

 

EDIT: And BTW it's not like there was yards to be had in those games because FJ was in 4 out of 5 of those games and he was below 50 yards as well. in fact he rushed for 29, 29, 21 and 14 in those games with YPC of 2.2, 3.2, 3.5 and 1.6. So Freddie wasn't getting it done and was in fact performing worse.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Wayne Cubed