The Big Cat Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 To the quoted stat, I'm sorry but that is completely cherry picking. Sure it looks bad if you just list total yards for the game, but not in the context of how many times he touched the ball. For those 5 games below 50 yards his attempts were: 4, 8, 7, 6, 7. And his yards per carry were 4, 4.1, 3.4, 6.5, 5.3. The guy was averaging over 4 yards a carry, except 1 game. To me this screams of not giving him the ball enough. You expect a running back to have high yards per game, but expect him to do it on less than 10 carries? EDIT: And BTW it's not like there was yards to be had in those games because FJ was in 4 out of 5 of those games and he was below 50 yards as well. in fact he rushed for 29, 29, 21 and 14 in those games with YPC of 2.2, 3.2, 3.5 and 1.6. So Freddie wasn't getting it done and was in fact performing worse. Parse the stats all you want, attribute blame wherever you please: do you think CJ had a good year last year? Yes or no.
Wayne Cubed Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 Parse the stats all you want, attribute blame wherever you please: do you think CJ had a good year last year? Yes or no. Last year? It was ok, I wouldn't say good. But without looking too deep into it (I've only rewatched the first 4 games so far) it's hard to tell why. Could be new blocking scheme and a new offense or maybe the high ankle sprain? It did look like the line was getting blown up, pretty regularly. CJ didn't help himself by trying to bounce it outside or running backwards.
The Big Cat Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 Last year? It was ok, I wouldn't say good. But without looking too deep into it (I've only rewatched the first 4 games so far) it's hard to tell why. Could be new blocking scheme and a new offense or maybe the high ankle sprain? It did look like the line was getting blown up, pretty regularly. CJ didn't help himself by trying to bounce it outside or running backwards. I'll concede that there were a number of contributing factors. But I will say, he had a BAD year. And it wasn't JUST Hacketts fault. In fact I'd say, at most, 15% of the blame belongs to Hackett.
FireChan Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 I find it funny that the rally cry was "Gailey doesn't use him enough!!" when CJ has his best year, and now he got used more and did worse with Hackett. Does anyone still think Gailey misused Spiller? There's a lot of longing to go back to 2012 in this thread.
Utah John Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 Spiller is like an exotic sports car. When the car's running perfectly and there are openings in the traffic, it can zoom in and out and get there before anyone else. If there's heavy stop and go traffic, the car's clutch is too finicky to stay with the masses, and the radiator overheats. If there's ANYTHING wrong with the engine, transmission, or tires, fuhgedaboutit. Spiller without good wheels, which unfortunately is most of the time, is a pretty ordinary RB. And unless he's in space, he's no better than your grandfather's Oldsmobile in heavy traffic.
Wayne Cubed Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 I'll concede that there were a number of contributing factors. But I will say, he had a BAD year. And it wasn't JUST Hacketts fault. In fact I'd say, at most, 15% of the blame belongs to Hackett. Yea, certainly couldn't put the blame on just Hackett. The high ankle sprain and CJ just not taking what was there contributed more, I think.
HamSandwhich Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 I find it funny that the rally cry was "Gailey doesn't use him enough!!" when CJ has his best year, and now he got used more and did worse with Hackett. Does anyone still think Gailey misused Spiller? There's a lot of longing to go back to 2012 in this thread. Chan's offense put Spiller in the best position, you're comparing apples to oranges. Hackett's offense didn't put him in good position, and thus, he got the ball over and over in a bad situation. Should he have gotten more touches under Chan? Yes, the offense was much different.
Fan in Chicago Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 I'll concede that there were a number of contributing factors. But I will say, he had a BAD year. And it wasn't JUST Hacketts fault. In fact I'd say, at most, 15% of the blame belongs to Hackett. And this constant excuses for Spiller is what frustrates me. First it was Gailey's fault for saying he is winded and can't play in more downs. Now it is Hackett's for not utilizing him properly. IMHO, the trouble is (and I think thats what you have been saying in your posts) that Spiller's skill set is rather limited. He cannot be relied on to carry a game's worth of load. Much as people hate that term, he is a gadget player and suitable to play when many conditions, OL, OC line up perfectly. Much as he can make the highlight reel for a big gain, he leaves us wanting on most other downs. I would still like to have CJ on the team but with the understanding of his limited role in the offense. Unfortunately, some other team will pay him more than he is worth and he will be gone anyway.
Rockinon Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 I see a lot of criticism for play calling and CJ. Me, I think Marone was trying to get a good feel for the OL's weaknesses. The fact that we picked up 4 OLmen in the off season tells me he was not impressed with their performance at all. CJ can run up the middle with a decent block by an offensive guard. He would run where the hole was supposed to be but there was never anything big enough to run through last year. You cannot just use CJ for sweeps. That's ludicrous. He has to be able to run in multiple directions. Off of left tackle, right tackle, left guard and right guard. The threat to run in any given direction is how he will succeed best. This notion that he cannot run up the middle is just wrong. Give the guy a frigging hole to run through and he'll be fine. What we are going to see is a lot of running, just like last year. I don't think Hackett is going to abandon that. The difference is putting road graders in to help with that. We should also see a big improvement with pass protection as well. Bigger is definitely better. I like where we are heading. This team is planning to implement a smash mouth style of play, instead of trying get all cutesy with trickery. I'm looking forward to seeing dramatic improvement by our offense this year.
SRQ_BillsFan Posted May 27, 2014 Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) 300, 600, 1,200 is hardly stellar. Even the 900+ yards he got last year is miserable. You can look at YPC all you want. But it doesn't mean anything if your not putting up solid yards in the end. Even 1,200 yards is barely a good season. Break that up into yards per game and tell me if that's really good. Think about it in fantasy standards if you think that'll help. But CJ has produced the following averaged per game. 2010: 17.69 yards per game with 0 TDs 2011: 35.06 yards per game with .25 TDs 2012: 77.75 yards per game with .38 TDs 2013: 58.31 yards per game with .13 TDs Hardly stellar. If you had that in a fantasy back, he would be your 3rd or 4th option. Solid backs produce no matter what offense they are in. No matter who they're offensive coordinators are. http://www.nfl.com/player/c.j.spiller/497204/careerstats I think you are forgetting that the Bills use a two back system. This isn't the old days where you have a single feature back. If and when the Bills decide to let Spiller walk there will be no shortage of teams trying to sign this disappointing back. Edited May 27, 2014 by SRQ_BillsFan
mrags Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 I think you are forgetting that the Bills use a two back system. This isn't the old days where you have a single feature back. If and when the Bills decide to let Spiller walk there will be no shortage of teams trying to sign this disappointing back. the 2 back system argument is over rated. Other backs produce in similar systems/conditions. Hell, there isn't anyone here that doesn't think Fred was better than CJ last year. When called upon for a big play for a first down, he produced. CJ disappointed. And I don't care what some other team pays for him. As long as we don't overpay for an average RB with injury and durability issues. I'll be glad if he's another teams problem.
Dibs Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) .....He ran mostly out of the shotgun..... This part was not the case. He ran out of the shotgun less than half the time.....with his average being similar for both shotgun and non-shotgun. For those interested, here are links to Spiller's splits for 2012 & 2013 (scroll to near the bottom of the page). 2012: http://espn.go.com/n...2012/cj-spiller 2013: http://espn.go.com/n...3203/cj-spiller To earlier questions about getting Spiller in space......the links show a marked drop in his production with 2 or more TEs on the field(for both years). Edited May 28, 2014 by Dibs
machine gun kelly Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 300, 600, 1,200 is hardly stellar. Even the 900+ yards he got last year is miserable. You can look at YPC all you want. But it doesn't mean anything if your not putting up solid yards in the end. Even 1,200 yards is barely a good season. Break that up into yards per game and tell me if that's really good. Think about it in fantasy standards if you think that'll help. But CJ has produced the following averaged per game. 2010: 17.69 yards per game with 0 TDs 2011: 35.06 yards per game with .25 TDs 2012: 77.75 yards per game with .38 TDs 2013: 58.31 yards per game with .13 TDs Hardly stellar. If you had that in a fantasy back, he would be your 3rd or 4th option. Solid backs produce no matter what offense they are in. No matter who they're offensive coordinators are. http://www.nfl.com/player/c.j.spiller/497204/careerstats This is deceiving as FJ also had over 900 yards. I believe this thread should be more on FJ. He is patient, hits the hole well, always falls forward, and most importantly has great balance. Under this massive line, watch out for FJ to have a breakout season. Spiller will only have a good year if he can bounce out in the spread offense, or with pitches. I disagree our line is too big, and not athletic enough to get him on the outside. Just look at the tape of last year how quick Glenn moves for a big man. Also, kuandjio is young and if I remember correctly had a decent 40 time for a tackle. Our two new RB's and FJ will be used more up the middle.
Keukasmallies Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 Oh, sorry,I thought this was the same thread from last year....
MDH Posted May 28, 2014 Posted May 28, 2014 "never understood the runs up the middle for CJ" That's because hack-it is in way over his head. This is the NFL, if you can't run between the tackles then you can't be a successful running back. Players are too fast to try and run wide every time. Reggie Bush learned this lesson. Once he figured out he couldn't jump everything outside he became a much better back. Spiller would be a great 3rd down change of pace back - if only he could pass protect. You can't be in the backfield on 3rd downs if you can't pick up the blitz on a consistent basis. So where does that leave Spiller? As a back who needs a spread formation, gimmick type plays on 1st or 2nd down to "get him in space." That's not the kind of guy I'd like my offence built around.
YoloinOhio Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Buffalo Rumblings @BuffRumblings 8m A counter-argument to the "the #Bills misused C.J. Spiller in the run game last year" theory: http://sbn.to/1oRLRR7
The Big Cat Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Buffalo Rumblings @BuffRumblings 8m A counter-argument to the "the #Bills misused C.J. Spiller in the run game last year" theory: http://sbn.to/1oRLRR7 This, like many of the all-22 reports throughout the 2013 season, supports my ongoing claim that the "space calls" (the screens, traps, counters, sweeps, etc) simply weren't an option with our line's interior. But that won't stop most Bills fans from blaming Hackett for not calling the plays we couldn't run.
FireChan Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 This, like many of the all-22 reports throughout the 2013 season, supports my ongoing claim that the "space calls" (the screens, traps, counters, sweeps, etc) simply weren't an option with our line's interior. But that won't stop most Bills fans from blaming Hackett for not calling the plays we couldn't run. If only Colin Brown was still on the team. Then we could all agree on who to blame.
The Big Cat Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 If only Colin Brown was still on the team. Then we could all agree on who to blame. Right. Whaley.
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