CJ Spillers increased role in offense?

[Turbosrrgood]

Sure 6.0 YPC is a good number...The rest of his numbers have been average at best, and that number doesn't at all mean he's been a dominant RB in the NFL. He still only had 1200 yards that year, not exactly spectacular. Let's be realistic, we've all watched Spiller, and we all know what his strengths in weakness are.

 

Spiller has big play break out ability, but as we all know has struggled big time with consistency. No need to get all overboard one way or another.

 

No matter what he will get one more season to show whether he is that "spectacular" guy, or the guy who can't find running lanes (or he gets hurt again). Then we can start talking about whether he should be allowed to walk or not.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Turbosrrgood

[HamSandwhich]

sell said. And I'll add to it. Who the hell really cares if CJ goes after this year if he hails another year like he did last year?

 

People always want to bring up how they should use him like Chan did. Why??? He had 1 single solid year under Chan. The rest were just as terrible as last year under Hackett. And besides, if he can't adapt to the way our offense is supposed to be, why bother with him??? Isn't that why we just traded Stevie?

 

People need to get a grip sometimes. Attached to certain players is correct. This kid has barely shown anything IMO. And of he craps out again this year, regardless how they use him, it shows me that he's not worth a big contract. You know who gets big contracts? Guys that are dominant no matter what happens, who their coach is, every year. CJ hasn't shown any of that.

 

Because, when he is used correctly, his name is used in the same vein as the tops in the league. I.E. Adrian Peterson, which his numbers were a lot like that year.

 

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. "1 single solid season"; Averaging 6.0 ypc on over 200 carries is spectacular. Do you know how many of the top 20 RB's in yardage last season averaged 6.0 ypc? None of them did. How about 5.5 ypc? Zero again. Well how about 5.0 ypc? Just 3 players: LeSean McCoy, Jamall Charles, and DeMarco Murray.

 

He had over 1700 yards from scrimmage and 8 TD's that season. Those are spectacular numbers.

 

Guess what CJ "1 year, not even a, wonder- according to you" Spiller career average is... 5.1 ypc

 

The hate this kid receives is irrational. He is one of the most explosive players in the NFL. This isn't 1972 anymore: Not every back is going slam up the middle and run LB's over.

 

 

Why wouldn't you want to steal some ideas from Gailey's offense when he got that type of production out of a player? 6.0 ypc is almost unheard of production yet you just want to rush him out the door. I don't understand the fascination with pigeon holing players to fit a certain scheme; that's just bad coaching. I would fault Hackett for failing to utilize such an explosive talent then blaming Spiller for a coach's terrible play calling.

 

Exactly

 

300, 600, 1,200 is hardly stellar. Even the 900+ yards he got last year is miserable. You can look at YPC all you want. But it doesn't mean anything if your not putting up solid yards in the end. Even 1,200 yards is barely a good season. Break that up into yards per game and tell me if that's really good. Think about it in fantasy standards if you think that'll help. But CJ has produced the following averaged per game.

 

 

2010: 17.69 yards per game with 0 TDs

2011: 35.06 yards per game with .25 TDs

2012: 77.75 yards per game with .38 TDs

2013: 58.31 yards per game with .13 TDs

 

Hardly stellar. If you had that in a fantasy back, he would be your 3rd or 4th option. Solid backs produce no matter what offense they are in. No matter who they're offensive coordinators are.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/p...204/careerstats

 

I see you're trying to marginalize his acheivments of 2012, but I know, deep down, you know he can be special based on that season. This probably comes from years of hurt being a Bills fan, expecting so much more only to be disapointed. Spiller is the real deal when used correctly. He'll be tops in the league if Hackett can hack it and choose the correct plays...pun intended

 

If CJ leaves and goes to a team that can utilize his strengths, such as the Eagles, you'll rue the day he left, and wonder why we couldn't use him they way they will.

[mrags]

 

 

Because, when he is used correctly, his name is used in the same vein as the tops in the league. I.E. Adrian Peterson, which his numbers were a lot like that year.

 

 

 

Exactly

 

 

 

I see you're trying to marginalize his acheivments of 2012, but I know, deep down, you know he can be special based on that season. This probably comes from years of hurt being a Bills fan, expecting so much more only to be disapointed. Spiller is the real deal when used correctly. He'll be tops in the league if Hackett can hack it and choose the correct plays...pun intended

 

If CJ leaves and goes to a team that can utilize his strengths, such as the Eagles, you'll rue the day he left, and wonder why we couldn't use him they way they will.

actually I'm not marginalizing any achievements from CJ. IMO he's done nothing. Even his 1,200 yard season is disappointing IMO. Never hit 10 TDs. Only one 1,000 yard season. He's never produced.

 

I will give you this, he does have all the potential to become a monster. However, he lacks the durability to do it. He lacks the vision to do it.

 

I too once had high hopes for CJ. Thought he could be dominant just like Tomlinson, or Priest Holmes before him. But he has constantly proved us wrong.

 

Honestly, I'm not alright with giving him another contract at all after this. If he has a dominant year this year, he's going to want way too much, if he has another disappointing season, he's not worth any money were looking to pay him. Let him go I say. Personally, I think he may be gone in a trade at some point this season.

[The Big Cat]

Que up some of the early games last year, starting against the Pats* in week 1. We attempted several screens and they got blown up because our QB and Oline execution was horrendous. We were just plain bad at it. No wonder Hackett put them on the shelf for a while.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Long story short, if Spiller can't learn to hit a damn hole and GO instead of misreading his blocks, and getting confused in the backfield, this is his last year as a Bill. Look at the guys brought in. both can hit the hole and go esp. up the middle and Brown is very fast and can hit the perimeter.

 

I know fans cling to certain players, but it is clear this staff says its time to crap or get off the pot performance wise. Spiller needs to quit pulling himself off the field and be more constant not just hitting the long run here and there

sell said. And I'll add to it. Who the hell really cares if CJ goes after this year if he hails another year like he did last year?

 

People always want to bring up how they should use him like Chan did. Why??? He had 1 single solid year under Chan. The rest were just as terrible as last year under Hackett. And besides, if he can't adapt to the way our offense is supposed to be, why bother with him??? Isn't that why we just traded Stevie?

 

People need to get a grip sometimes. Attached to certain players is correct. This kid has barely shown anything IMO. And of he craps out again this year, regardless how they use him, it shows me that he's not worth a big contract. You know who gets big contracts? Guys that are dominant no matter what happens, who their coach is, every year. CJ hasn't shown any of that.

 

I agree with all points above.

 

I also challenge everyone who suddenly remembers Gailey using Spiller "correctly." I'm shocked to see a sudden fondness for the spread offense that drove so many posters bananas. I guess nobody remembers being up in arms about it being "Fred's turn."

 

All we wanted was for the man to get more touches. Hackett made that happen, and CJ biffed it.

 

I'm glad somebody else finally made the point about how badly the Bills executed screens last year. To that point, I'm still waiting for someone to define "get him in space" as something other than:

1. The Spread
   
2. Screens
   

Folks complained about Gailey's playcalling, now turn around and complain about Hackett's because it isn't Gailey's. At some point, CJ has to learn to hit the holes that are created for him. Until then, we can't belly ache about the play calls our players aren't executing.

[NewEra]

300, 600, 1,200 is hardly stellar. Even the 900+ yards he got last year is miserable. You can look at YPC all you want. But it doesn't mean anything if your not putting up solid yards in the end. Even 1,200 yards is barely a good season. Break that up into yards per game and tell me if that's really good. Think about it in fantasy standards if you think that'll help. But CJ has produced the following averaged per game.

 

 

2010: 17.69 yards per game with 0 TDs

2011: 35.06 yards per game with .25 TDs

2012: 77.75 yards per game with .38 TDs

2013: 58.31 yards per game with .13 TDs

 

Hardly stellar. If you had that in a fantasy back, he would be your 3rd or 4th option. Solid backs produce no matter what offense they are in. No matter who they're offensive coordinators are.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/c.j.spiller/497204/careerstats

Love you Mrags.....but I guess you didn't watch OJ in his first 3 years? Or does that not count because it was the 70s?

 

53 ypg 5tds , 61/5, 53/5 in his first 3 seasons. He wasn't used correctly? Or he wasn't good? Or was in the OC? Or was he just not a good RB his first 3 seasons? I'm not saying Cj is going to be a HoF running back, just that the way a RB is used and the competence of the OC/how a RB is used can, without a doubt, hold a RB back.

Edited May 27, 2014 by NewEra

[Turbosrrgood]

Love you Mrags.....but I guess you didn't watch OJ in his first 3 years? Or does that not count because it was the 70s?

 

53 ypg 5tds , 61/5, 53/5 in his first 3 seasons. He wasn't used correctly? Or he wasn't good? Or was in the OC? Or was he just not a good RB his first 3 seasons?

 

In fairness, he was simply pointing out that those numbers were not spectacular in response to a previous poster who suggested they were.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Turbosrrgood

[smapdi]

I'm glad somebody else finally made the point about how badly the Bills executed screens last year. To that point, I'm still waiting for someone to define "get him in space" as something other than:

The Spread

Screens

 

 

Wheel routes

HB Flairs

Motioning him out of the backfield and having him run a drag route or a quick slant

 

They don't have to run a spread offense full time; I wouldn't want them to do that. With the addition of Watkins and Williams, they will want to run plenty of 4 WR sets I would think if they're smart.

 

Watkins

Williams

Goodwin

Woods

 

Spiller in backfield

 

 

The spread isn't a gimmick offense like a lot of you are trying to say. It's a legit offensive strategy used by pretty much every single NFL team in today's game. 4 and 5 WR sets have never been used more and for good reason: the rules and officiating is so skewed towards favoring the WR, why wouldn't you want to throw the ball?

 

All we wanted was for the man to get more touches. Hackett made that happen, and CJ biffed it.

 

I don't see why you give Hackett a free pass. His play calling was atrocious for most of the season. The predictability was obscene and really limited what this offense could accomplish. It's tough for your RB's to be productive when the defense knows exactly what you are going to do & show no threat of passing down the field on top of it.

 

In fairness, he was simply pointing out that those numbers were not spectacular in response to a previous poster who suggested they were.

 

I didn't say all those numbers were spectacular. The only numbers I said were spectacular was his 2012 season where he had over 1700 yards and averaged 6.0 ypc- something nobody managed to accomplish last season.

[The Big Cat]

Wheel routes

HB Flairs

Motioning him out of the backfield and having him run a drag route or a quick slant

 

They don't have to run a spread offense full time; I wouldn't want them to do that. With the addition of Watkins and Williams, they will want to run plenty of 4 WR sets I would think if they're smart.

 

Watkins

Williams

Goodwin

Woods

 

Spiller in backfield

 

 

The spread isn't a gimmick offense like a lot of you are trying to say. It's a legit offensive strategy used by pretty much every single NFL team in today's game. 4 and 5 WR sets have never been used more and for good reason: the rules and officiating is so skewed towards favoring the WR, why wouldn't you want to throw the ball?

 

And you can say, with utmost certainty, that Hacket never ran any of those? Or, at the very least, ran them with significantly less frequency compared to Gailey?

 

You think (with CJ in the backfield) that last year's O-Line would have been reliable without a TE in to help?

 

It seems to be that you (like most Hackett detractors) base your criticisms on the reality you want, not the reality our rookie OC was dealing with.

 

 

I don't see why you give Hackett a free pass. His play calling was atrocious for most of the season. The predictability was obscene and really limited what this offense could accomplish. It's tough for your RB's to be productive when the defense knows exactly what you are going to do & show no threat of passing down the field on top of it.

 

I don't know. May be three quarterbacks with a combined one start. Two rookie wide outs. A perpetually nicked up Stevie. A gaping hole at LG. A turnstile at RT.

 

And, oh yeah, the fact that Fred Jackson and (yes) Tashard Choice didn't seem to struggle finding space up the middle.

 

Why does CJ get a pass when his bad seasons out number is good ones 2.75/1.25?

Edited May 27, 2014 by The Big Cat

[Original Byrd Man]

A creative coach is able to adjust a scheme or devise plays to take advantage of a players skill set. Other coaches have a system and bring in the players needed. I guess we will soon see which type Hackett is.

[mrags]

 

Love you Mrags.....but I guess you didn't watch OJ in his first 3 years? Or does that not count because it was the 70s?

 

53 ypg 5tds , 61/5, 53/5 in his first 3 seasons. He wasn't used correctly? Or he wasn't good? Or was in the OC? Or was he just not a good RB his first 3 seasons? I'm not saying Cj is going to be a HoF running back, just that the way a RB is used and the competence of the OC/how a RB is used can, without a doubt, hold a RB back.

thanks bud. I am not old enough to have watch the Great.

 

It is a different time. But I agree that CJ could be a monster if used in the right way, on the right team and with all the pieces in place. For example, if he was on the Chiefs instead of Priest Holmes, he would be on his way to a HOF career.

 

But that's in perfect scenarios. Like many others have already said. We can complain about the play calling all we want. We can complain about the offense all we want. But at the end of the day, a dominant RB doesn't worry about all that, he just produces and CJ doesn't do that. Even his "good" season was miserable IMO broken down to average per game.

 

I ised to really want him to succeed. Be the next big thing. But he's just not. Just like Chris Johnson. All the hope in the world but in the end, after a few years, nobody cares anymore. There's only so much we can say "if he was just used correctly" he could be one of the best in the league. At some point, he's just gonna have to show it.

 

And for the record, I wouldn't care if he left and went to any team. The Jets, Pats, Dolphins, or any other. He doesn't scare me. He makes poor decisions while running and choosing holes, not waiting for blocking, running out of bounds, and is ALWAYS hurt.

Edited May 27, 2014 by mrags

[The Big Cat]

A creative coach is able to adjust a scheme or devise plays to take advantage of a players skill set. Other coaches have a system and bring in the players needed. I guess we will soon see which type Hackett is.

 

What relevance does this platitude have in regards to a rookie OC with no QB's coach scheming for:

1. A rookie QB
   
2. an UDRFA QB
   
3. A QB with one start to his name who joined the team just prior to the fourth preseason game
   

What were your expectations for the offense?

 

Did posters here really expect/want a continuation of the Gailey offense?--which (for those who don't have selective amnesia) was a brilliant patch job, but not much else.

[mrags]

I didn't say all those numbers were spectacular. The only numbers I said were spectacular was his 2012 season where he had over 1700 yards and averaged 6.0 ypc- something nobody managed to accomplish last season.

1,700 yards... The way you say it gives the impression that it was all on the ground. 500 of it was receiving. CJs best season is still barely as good as 3 of Fred's seasons from 09-11. And Fred was already 30 at that time.

[Turbosrrgood]

 

I didn't say all those numbers were spectacular. The only numbers I said were spectacular was his 2012 season where he had over 1700 yards and averaged 6.0 ypc- something nobody managed to accomplish last season.

 

You said...

 

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. "1 single solid season"; Averaging 6.0 ypc on over 200 carries is spectacular.

 

 

Certainly you were suggesting that you thought his season as a whole was spectacular, as opposed to just "solid". His argument was a fair counter to that. You were suggesting that the YPC number alone made it spectacular, he proved stats that suggested otherwise.

[HamSandwhich]

I agree with all points above.

 

I also challenge everyone who suddenly remembers Gailey using Spiller "correctly." I'm shocked to see a sudden fondness for the spread offense that drove so many posters bananas. I guess nobody remembers being up in arms about it being "Fred's turn."

 

All we wanted was for the man to get more touches. Hackett made that happen, and CJ biffed it.

 

I'm glad somebody else finally made the point about how badly the Bills executed screens last year. To that point, I'm still waiting for someone to define "get him in space" as something other than:

1. The Spread
    
   
2. Screens
   

Folks complained about Gailey's playcalling, now turn around and complain about Hackett's because it isn't Gailey's. At some point, CJ has to learn to hit the holes that are created for him. Until then, we can't belly ache about the play calls our players aren't executing.

 

I will not be counted as one who did not like Gailey's offense. I really enjoyed his offenses, very exciting. You're asking people to expain what they mean by "space" when screen/spread offense is exactly how you get him in space. I'm not saying the entire offense should consist of this, but elements and maybe a few of his plays should be applied.

[sjjr]

Have to think they'll use him like the Saints used Reggie Bush and then Sproles or like SU used Tyson Gulley. Just wish he had better hands out of the backfield. Fred at this stage of his career might be the power back like Deuce McAllister was or Jerome Smith was for SU. Bryce Brown could get the most carries really and be the most complete back if he wants it. He's got a lot of talent.

[HamSandwhich]

You said...

 

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. "1 single solid season"; Averaging 6.0 ypc on over 200 carries is spectacular.

 

 

Certainly you were suggesting that you thought his season as a whole was spectacular, as opposed to just "solid". His argument was a fair counter to that. You were suggesting that the YPC number alone made it spectacular, he proved stats that suggested otherwise.

 

Those numbers ARE spectacular when taken in context of the number of carries he had. No one can argue, from the 2012 season, that he was not a REAL threat to take it to the house every time he touched it, on the ground or through the air. A player like that, when used correctly, will change the opposing D with or without the ball in his hands. Those are the type of playmakers that need to be on the field all the time.

[ChanOverChin]

It's SPILLER TIME!!

 

With this being Spiller's contract year, much better players around him, the coaches now familiar with him, and an increased role in the offense, expect CJ to have a big year for us this year.

 

He is a touchdown just waiting to happen.

[Turbosrrgood]

Those numbers ARE spectacular when taken in context of the number of carries he had. No one can argue, from the 2012 season, that he was not a REAL threat to take it to the house every time he touched it, on the ground or through the air. A player like that, when used correctly, will change the opposing D with or without the ball in his hands. Those are the type of playmakers that need to be on the field all the time.

 

You missed the point. No one is saying 6.0 YPC is not spectacular...However just having a good YPC, doesn't mean he's a dominant RB. In fact by all other measures he certainly has not been. That's the point. Maybe he can be, he's shown signs...but so far he has not done it for a full season, even that season.

 

Rob Johnson had 3 straight years with a 100+ QBR, 2 of those over 110, it does not mean he was a spectacular QB. Pointing to one good stat for a player, and suggesting that can be used to sum up his success as a player, is not realistic.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Turbosrrgood

[HamSandwhich]

thanks bud. I am not old enough to have watch the Great.

 

It is a different time. But I agree that CJ could be a monster if used in the right way, on the right team and with all the pieces in place. For example, if he was on the Chiefs instead of Priest Holmes, he would be on his way to a HOF career.

 

But that's in perfect scenarios. Like many others have already said. We can complain about the play calling all we want. We can complain about the offense all we want. But at the end of the day, a dominant RB doesn't worry about all that, he just produces and CJ doesn't do that. Even his "good" season was miserable IMO broken down to average per game.

 

I ised to really want him to succeed. Be the next big thing. But he's just not. Just like Chris Johnson. All the hope in the world but in the end, after a few years, nobody cares anymore. There's only so much we can say "if he was just used correctly" he could be one of the best in the league. At some point, he's just gonna have to show it.

 

And for the record, I wouldn't care if he left and went to any team. The Jets, Pats, Dolphins, or any other. He doesn't scare me. He makes poor decisions while running and choosing holes, not waiting for blocking, running out of bounds, and is ALWAYS hurt.

 

I will agree he doesnt fit the mold of a big bruiser, shove it down the throat of the opposing D, type back. However he needs to be on the field much more often to open up the D with the threat of his homerun play. He can't be that "homerun" type player if he's not getting the type of plays that put him in the best position, and that's where Hackett's play calling comes in.

[mrags]

 

 

Those numbers ARE spectacular when taken in context of the number of carries he had. No one can argue, from the 2012 season, that he was not a REAL threat to take it to the house every time he touched it, on the ground or through the air. A player like that, when used correctly, will change the opposing D with or without the ball in his hands. Those are the type of playmakers that need to be on the field all the time.

unfortunately, you cannot or never could rely on him to do it. Even in that "spectacular" season, he was injured twice. A RB has to be relied on. He's got to be one of the foundations for the team. And when he's out, it hurts the overall progress of the team.