New stadium = good-bye to tailgating?

[CodeMonkey]

Some tailgate are fun and others are nothing more than drunken idiots, peeing on the tires of someone's car and bowling in the parking lot using a keg and beer bottles. Both of which I've seen.

 

It wouldn't bother me at all to see less tailgaiting and more folks in bars and restaurants.

I would love to see more tailgating .. REAL tailgating meaning cooking out with friends and family and enjoying the day before going into the stadium to watch the game. Without the moron power drinkers, and the stupid !@#$ing !@#$s that think it makes them a man by harassing kids and others because of the jersey they are wearing. But unfortunately in Buffalo I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

Let the !@#$s go to the bars.

Edited May 26, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[BillnutinHouston]

Today's Buffalo News article quotes a source close to AECOM's stadium siting effort as saying Buffalo's tailgating tradition will be honored in the process.

 

Meanwhile, as the consulting firm’s work continues in offices scattered around the country, site visits will prove key to helping the group understand – and see firsthand – potential attributes and problems.

 

“We’re still early in the process, so we’ll grab as many ideas as we can,” the source said of suggestions for sites.

 

How much is needed for a new stadium depends on whether a suburban or urban site is considered. The actual stadium needs about 15 acres of land for a typical NFL facility.

 

“From there, you have a history of tailgating (at Bills’ games). We’ll honor that tradition. So there’s land for that,” the source said.

[Ted William's frozen head]

If Tailgating is removed from the picture, I'll take the $$$$$ that I WILL NOT be spending on two PSL's,and I'll build a nice media center @ home.

[OCinBuffalo]

1. This is now "The War on Tailgaiting", and B&S(Mike Schopp and Bulldog) has made it so.

 

2. I see no reason that tailgating or not tailgating is anywhere near the top of our priority list.

 

3. How about we start with something like dome or no dome...you know...something that actually matters?

 

4. The only reason this is being brought up is because it sparks Bills fans, whose fond memories of their yearly family tailgate(at least) are now cast into doubt...um...like, around 4 years from now. Why the hell we need sparking about this right now, is anyone's guess.

 

5. I am all for the best idea. If the best idea/most workable is downtown, great. I can ride the train, just like I do for Sabres games, and so can a buttload of fans. We can do various types of tailigating in all sorts of places.

 

Example: I'd buy the open lot across from me right friggin now(by a train stop), and turn myself into Hammer the 2nd. I'd have a F'ing pig roast(and you bet your ass I know how)/keg beer/wine @$15 per person and $50 for 4 people. I would have bands, games, and off-duty cops for security. Kids are welcome, but, they don't run things here. This would be a tailgate for all, and thus, all, including cussing drunks are welcome. Besides, why not work with that? Cussing drunk tricycle races, cussing drunk poetry reading...I might even dig a pit for cussing drunk gladiators(nerfed of course).

 

What kid doesn't want to see cussing drunk pretend WWF? Put into the proper context, how is cussing drunk WWF, from a distance, not family entertainment? See? I can make this work, and so can everybody else.

 

 

Thus, this is not about tailgating....this is about a small set of people who are moving away from the NFL, to the PGA.....because that's who they are becoming(or always were)...and them trying to force their old ass values onto the rest of us.

 

The simple fact is: many of you anti-tailgate people? This isn't about a "getting old" thing. You weren't a tailgater when you were 18. You're not one now. Just admit that to yourself...and stop trying to pretend that this is about us, and not you.

[CodeMonkey]

1. This is now "The War on Tailgaiting", and B&S(Mike Schopp and Bulldog) has made it so.

 

2. I see no reason that tailgating or not tailgating is anywhere near the top of our priority list.

 

3. How about we start with something like dome or no dome...you know...something that actually matters?

 

4. The only reason this is being brought up is because it sparks Bills fans, whose fond memories of their yearly family tailgate(at least) are now cast into doubt...um...like, around 4 years from now. Why the hell we need sparking about this right now, is anyone's guess.

 

5. I am all for the best idea. If the best idea/most workable is downtown, great. I can ride the train, just like I do for Sabres games, and so can a buttload of fans. We can do various types of tailigating in all sorts of places.

 

Example: I'd buy the open lot across from me right friggin now(by a train stop), and turn myself into Hammer the 2nd. I'd have a F'ing pig roast(and you bet your ass I know how)/keg beer/wine @$15 per person and $50 for 4 people. I would have bands, games, and off-duty cops for security. Kids are welcome, but, they don't run things here. This would be a tailgate for all, and thus, all, including cussing drunks are welcome. Besides, why not work with that? Cussing drunk tricycle races, cussing drunk poetry reading...I might even dig a pit for cussing drunk gladiators(nerfed of course).

 

What kid doesn't want to see cussing drunk pretend WWF? Put into the proper context, how is cussing drunk WWF, from a distance, not family entertainment? See? I can make this work, and so can everybody else.

 

 

Thus, this is not about tailgating....this is about a small set of people who are moving away from the NFL, to the PGA.....because that's who they are becoming(or always were)...and them trying to force their old ass values onto the rest of us.

 

The simple fact is: many of you anti-tailgate people? This isn't about a "getting old" thing. You weren't a tailgater when you were 18. You're not one now. Just admit that to yourself...and stop trying to pretend that this is about us, and not you.

Oh I see. Tailgaters are a bunch of alcoholic assclowns being douchebags and pissing/puking all over each other. And everyone else isn't a tailgater.

 

Yikes. No wonder things are the way they are.

[OCinBuffalo]

Oh I see. Tailgaters are a bunch of alcoholic assclowns being douchebags and pissing/puking all over each other. And everyone else isn't a tailgater.

 

Yikes. No wonder things are the way they are.

Wow...that one went right by you, didn't it?

 

Try reading the last sentence again.

 

EDIT: Then, try reading the first sentence again. Then, read the first and then last sentence in order. Hell, try reading the whole thing again.

 

Yeah, I am mocking the very attitude that has spawned "The War on Tailgaiting", and those that started this war.

 

In their world, not mine, tailgaters are quite literally are:

alcoholic assclowns being douchebags and pissing/puking all over each other. And everyone else isn't a tailgater.

 

Assume the stadium downtown. I would literally buy that land, and set up a tailgate, SOLELY for the purposes of pissing Bulldog off. SOLELY to ensure that people came there, and not to his dopey "restaurants and bars" solution, or whatevertheF he is babbling about. Or, that's why I wrote that...just to piss them off. The man wants to lock, us, Bills fans, into his deluded view of the future...because Buffalo is "booming".

 

Since when are we to be ordered about by "those who know better", like Mike Schopp, the self-appointed arbiter of the "new NFL"?

 

None of us have to accept their version of "how this goes" least of all, the new owner. But, given what I've heard recently, that's precisely what we must do, or, we are all idiots.

Edited May 28, 2014 by OCinBuffalo

[Ted William's frozen head]

People should get over this mentality that we need a new Stadium.'The Ralph' is a great place to see a game. Looks to me like the refurb project will go a long way towards satisfying the 'need' for amenities.

Unless the State pours an enormous chunk of $$$ into a new Stadium, the financials are NOT going to work for retaining the team in Buffalo.

If the new owner uses the County owned facility, there is much, much less overhead to worry about. Why do you think the Packers Stadium was refurb'd, and not replaced? It's likely that this was in fact the only option for the team to stay afloat.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Ted William's frozen head

[Kirby Jackson]

People should get over this mentality that we need a new Stadium.'The Ralph' is a great place to see a game. Looks to me like the refurb project will go a long way towards satisfying the 'need' for amenities.

Unless the State pours an enormous chunk of $$$ into a new Stadium, the financials are NOT going to work for retaining the team in Buffalo.

If the new owner uses the County owned facility, there is much, much less overhead to worry about. Why do you think the Packers Stadium was refurb'd, and not replaced? It's likely that this was in fact the only option for the team to stay afloat.

A refurb is not a realistic option IMO. They have structural issues that they may or may not be able to resolve. In addition, it is unlikely that they could complete the work in an offseason meaning the Bills would have to find somewhere to play for at least a season. A new stadium is certainly on the way and all of the ownership groups have a plan for that.

[Gordio]

1. What kid doesn't want to see cussing drunk pretend WWF? Put into the proper context, how is cussing drunk WWF, from a distance, not family entertainment? See? I can make this work, and so can everybody else.

 

 

Thus, this is not about tailgating....this is about a small set of people who are moving away from the NFL, to the PGA.....because that's who they are becoming(or always were)...and them trying to force their old ass values onto the rest of us.

 

The simple fact is: many of you anti-tailgate people? This isn't about a "getting old" thing. You weren't a tailgater when you were 18. You're not one now. Just admit that to yourself...and stop trying to pretend that this is about us, and not you.

 

My guess is you never tailgated in lot 5. They are not on the grass lot right in front of lot 5 because they can't bring their bus into lot 5 anymore but they have a guy dressed up, looks just like Hulk Hogan except he ways about 100 pnds. I have also seen there Sgt Slaughter look alike & couple other of the old time wrestling stars. For a couple of the night games they even set a ring up on top of the bus. It is fuggin hilarious.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Gordio

[Ted William's frozen head]

A refurb is not a realistic option IMO. They have structural issues that they may or may not be able to resolve. In addition, it is unlikely that they could complete the work in an offseason meaning the Bills would have to find somewhere to play for at least a season. A new stadium is certainly on the way and all of the ownership groups have a plan for that.

 

You have to consider the PSL factor. That will drive away much of the fan base from keeping season tickets. If I had to cough up $10,000.00 to retain rights to my seats, It's all over for me at that point. I can't justify that sort of expenditure for entertainment at this stage of my life. I'm bracing myself......

[Prickly Pete]

The people will find a way to gather, party and socialize pre and post game. It might not be around a tailgate, it might not even be in a parking lot, but some kind of social scene will develop.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

You have to consider the PSL factor. That will drive away much of the fan base from keeping season tickets. If I had to cough up $10,000.00 to retain rights to my seats, It's all over for me at that point. I can't justify that sort of expenditure for entertainment at this stage of my life. I'm bracing myself......

I hear you and unfortunately I think that it will almost certainly be the case. I think that if they had something like 60,000 PSLs at $5k a piece that would account for $300M. The rest of the stadium would be financed by the state IMO ($500M or so). That was the whole reason that they have spent the lat 17 year or whatever it is on regionalization. The Bills will need somewhere between 20k-30K of the PSLs to come from Rochester and Southern Ontario. That doesn't seem unrealistic IMO.

[Ted William's frozen head]

I hear you and unfortunately I think that it will almost certainly be the case. I think that if they had something like 60,000 PSLs at $5k a piece that would account for $300M. The rest of the stadium would be financed by the state IMO ($500M or so). That was the whole reason that they have spent the lat 17 year or whatever it is on regionalization. The Bills will need somewhere between 20k-30K of the PSLs to come from Rochester and Southern Ontario. That doesn't seem unrealistic IMO.

 

I would be interested in seeing a structural report on the current facility.

[kasper13]

You have to consider the PSL factor. That will drive away much of the fan base from keeping season tickets. If I had to cough up $10,000.00 to retain rights to my seats, It's all over for me at that point. I can't justify that sort of expenditure for entertainment at this stage of my life. I'm bracing myself......

Absolutely correct. Poloncarz was on WGR and floated the idea that fans will have to help pay for a new stadium. $5,000 PSL was floated as something fans could afford. So add that up. 2 PSL's- $10,000 per year. 2 season tickets- $150 per ticket for 10 games. $3,000. Parking- $50 per game for 10 games. $500. Who is paying $13,500 for 10 football games? $25 for a 10 oz beer. That prices 90% of the fans right out of the ballgame. It certainly prices out the vast majority of under 25 year olds that go just for the tailgate to get wrecked. That's stupid money for this area. If they somehow do manage to sell 25-40K PSL's, it's going to be mostly the rich hockey crowd anyway. Going to be a 100% different atmosphere and people aren't going to like it at all.

[Dragonborn10]

 

 

The last thing we need is more seats in another level though. The Ralph replacemnent needs to seat 65K not 90K

Amen!! 65K seats, downtown, and 20% higher ticket prices. As someone else said tailgating gets a bad rap due to the lowest common denominator folks who drown in creeks and fall from the stands. Less seats and higher prices will make it more enjoyable for the people who aren't drunk at 11 am.

[Kirby Jackson]

Absolutely correct. Poloncarz was on WGR and floated the idea that fans will have to help pay for a new stadium. $5,000 PSL was floated as something fans could afford. So add that up. 2 PSL's- $10,000 per year. 2 season tickets- $150 per ticket for 10 games. $3,000. Parking- $50 per game for 10 games. $500. Who is paying $13,500 for 10 football games? $25 for a 10 oz beer. That prices 90% of the fans right out of the ballgame. It certainly prices out the vast majority of under 25 year olds that go just for the tailgate to get wrecked. That's stupid money for this area. If they somehow do manage to sell 25-40K PSL's, it's going to be mostly the rich hockey crowd anyway. Going to be a 100% different atmosphere and people aren't going to like it at all.

Just to be clear the PSL will be a one time fee and the owner will have the right to resell it when they choose to give up their seats. I am not sure where you are getting $25 for beer & $50 for parking? Other than those number discrepancies I totally agree with your premise. The future stadium experience will look vastly different from what we are accustomed to.

[Ronin]

AT&T stadium (Arlington, TX) has only 12,000 parking spaces in 15 lots. Of those 15 lots 10 allow tailgating. Of those 10 that allow tailgating it is allowed on the outside perimeter of the lot only. The parking space must have a grass area behind it. Parking is by permit only. That's pretty restrictive.

 

Buffalo will not have the space concerns of a major metropolitan area. Unless the stadium is placed in an area where space is at a premium I would expect that the tailgating tradition will continue.

 

All of this is going to factor into the "stadium feasibility" stuff.

 

Don't think for a NY second that these feasibility studies are purely about location. They'll address everything. Team owners try to squeeze every penny out of fans. Think about it, you buy tix to the game, but then they charge us, what is it now, $25 to park? What option do people have? Why not just charge an extra $5 per ticket and have free parking? There's a reason for that.

 

Point being, this all is a huge part of whether or not a team becomes more attractive to move.

 

What's interesting is that when Wilson passed, everyone was saying that the team likely wouldn't sell for a few years. Well that reporting has been stood on its head in a matter of about a month or so now. Now the talk is about having a new owner before this season even begins. I doubt that will happen, but I certainly expect it to be within the next 6-8 months, a position which I've held from the onset.

 

Now that a certain amount of time has passed and emotions have cooled somewhat, I now expect the talk of the owners that would move the team, or would like to, to start surfacing as well. Particularly given the talk about the team selling within the next bunch of months.

 

As well, it would not surprise me to see another city in the U.S., besides L.A., be talked about as a potential landing spot.

Edited May 30, 2014 by TaskersGhost

[Snorom]

Jeremy White ‏@JeremyWGR 1h

Stadium talk at owners meetings is indication NFL wants Buffalo to join the "new NFL", which means we have to stop talking about tailgating.

 

Matt Warren ‏@MattRichWarren 1h

They want the cash spent inside. MT @JeremyWGR When Goodell or whoever talks about "fan amenities" they don't mean parking lots to party in.

 

Build it near the city or in the city and tailgating will become restaurants bars and increased nightlife.

 

 

but... Tailgating doesn't allow for maximized profits. SO if you are for tailgating you are essentially against today's American version of corporate capitalism.. I know I am against it, but are you? Nobody seems interested in attacking big business for their constant steering of our society towards their desired outcome that benefits them 1st over anyone and everyone else desires or needs.

 

The NFL trying to steer people inside the venues for increased revenues just mirrors what our corporate society has been doing to us for decades, and why many of our problems in our society exists. Were doing whats best for big business not whats best for society and not what the people really want.

 

Not to mention Buffalo is one of the lower revenue producing teams therefore the NFL is going to ensure that if the Bills stay in Buffalo they do everything to maximize NFL profits 1st and foremost

Edited May 30, 2014 by Snorom

[YoloinOhio]

Build it near the city or in the city and tailgating will become restaurants bars and increased nightlife.

 

 

but... Tailgating doesn't allow for maximized profits. SO if you are for tailgating you are essentially against today's American version of corporate capitalism.. I know I am against it, but are you? Nobody seems interested in attacking big business for their constant steering of our society towards their desired outcome that benefits them 1st over anyone and everyone else desires or needs.

 

The NFL trying to steer people inside the venues for increased revenues just mirrors what our corporate society has been doing to us for decades, and why many of our problems in our society exists. Were doing whats best for big business not whats best for society and not what the people really want.

 

Not to mention Buffalo is one of the lower revenue producing teams therefore the NFL is going to ensure that if the Bills stay in Buffalo they do everything to maximize NFL profits 1st and foremost

Oh. This seems over my head.

[PromoTheRobot]

The Bills can't fit 60,000 people into their fancy in-stadium restaurants so people will still tailgate. Take the Patriots for example. Patriot Place is filled to the rafters before games but there are still thousands in the lots tailgating. As long as the restaurants are filled, and I'm sure they will be, everyone is happy.

 

I would be interested in seeing a structural report on the current facility.

 

The lower bowl is fine since it sits in the ground. The upper decks would have to be torn down and rebuilt.

 

I also heard the PSL thing from Polancarz on WGR yesterday. Folks better get used to the idea. I doubt they will be $80K but $3-5K? Sure. Usually teams allow you to stretch the PSL over time. So say you have to pay $3,000 you could just add $300 a year for 10 years. That reduces the sting somewhat.

 

Let's assume the average PSL is $4,000 charged on 60,000 seats. (The Bills can leave a few thousands seats without PSL's like they did with the Jets.) That's $240,000,000...a quarter billion.