Doug Whaley Approval Poll

[atlbillsfan1975]

Really (bolded part)? What happens if EJ plays well but the D plays to Wannstedt proportions bad or we have a rash of injuries at WR leaving TJ Graham and Hulk Hogan as the starters? Or Fred and CJ both get injured?

 

It all hinges on the ENTIRE TEAM (all three phases of the game) to improve significantly for us to be the playoff team we all want so much.

The time for excuses is done. my entire sentence was EJ needs to perform well and keep the team in games to win. I am not saying EJ needs to be Brady but he needs to be as good as Rusell Wilson.

The D and WR are good.

What IF the sky falls??

Yes all three phases of the team need to be good. But they all can be good and if you have a bad QB it will not matter. The Bills will finish with 6- 8 wins IF EJ does not step up and play good.

Edited May 20, 2014 by atlbillsfan1975

[Formerly Allan in MD]

And one "no"... whoever this is explain why you gave him a "no"

He/she"s looking for attention so he/she can say we gave up too much for Sammie. I have a feeling what we gave up we'll get back in some fashion.

[reddogblitz]

Bills will finish with 6- 8 wins IF EJ does not step up and play good.

 

true

 

The same can be said if our D can't stop the run and/or give up 23 points a game like they did last year and the year before that, and the year ...

 

We have been investing heavily in the D since 2010 with very little results-wise to show for it.

 

The whole teams results do not rest on any one player, even the QB.

 

I'm most concerned a out our D, not EJ.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

The Watkins trade really solidified my "yes" vote.

 

Sure it was a risk but when was the last time the Bills drafted a player who everyone considered "elite"?

 

He made a big splash and for the first time in a long time, the Bills didnt take a conservative approach to the draft.

 

 

CBF

[reddogblitz]

I think that's fine if that's how you want to look at it. The point of this poll is to speculate. Have you never commented in over 4,300 posts about something that hasn't proven itself out? You only comment after the results are in about what you liked and didn't like about the off season?

 

I think a lot of the things Whaley has done are what I've been clamoring for for years.

 

I like:

 

Get us some real WRs.

Dump Stevie "same ole Bills find new ways to lose" Johnson.

Got a real 3rd string RB who can run with the football.

 

I don't like:

Hired Doug Marrone instead of Lovie Smith and his whole staff

Didn't force Coach Marrone to fire Crossman

Didn't re sign Byrd, but I honestly think he tried really hard.

 

It is encouraging that he is making personnel moves that on paper anyway look promising. But 31 other GMs are out there making personnel moves they believe will make the team better.

 

I remember Matt Mullen made a lot of changes too.

 

The difference between the Matt Mullen's and the Bill Polian, Tex Shramm and Ozzie Newsomes of the world is their decisions pan out. I hope Doug's do too. But we won't know until they actually play real games.

 

I voted no, because I need to see results first. We had similar high hopes of playoffs in 2009 and 2012. Hopefully this year will be different.

 

Go BILLS !!

Edited May 20, 2014 by reddogblitz

[A Dog Named Kelso]

 

I voted no, because I need to see results first. We had similar high hopes of playoffs in 2009 and 2012. Hopefully this year will be different.

 

Go BILLS !!

Why not use the "Too soon to say" option? Just curious.

[Chef Jim]

It's easy to look back with 20/20 vision and say, with clarity, that he did a good/bad job. The question is, do you approve of the way he's going about his job? It's a more difficult thing to do when you don't get to see the final results.

 

I don't pay that close attention. So my vision will only be hindsight. Hense my vote of too soon to tell.

[Orton's Arm]

I just about choke every time I think about the price paid for Sammy Watkins.

He needs to be elite for that trade to work. We gave up a first (and 4th).

However most first round picks do not turn into elite players. Most actually underperform relative to expectations. Many are busts. What are the chances of Sammy being not just good but special? IMO they are pretty good so the risk taken is a good one, or at least not a bad one.

Whaley has loaded a lot of chips on the EJ square. According to conventional NFL thinking, if EJ fails Whaley is probably done in Buffalo.

I am not very optimistic about EJs chances of becoming a reliable to good NFL starter, especially in the time frames needed to help Whaley and Marrone. He could wind up having a late bloomer Doug Williams type of career. For me Bud Elliot's piece on EJ that came out in Tomahawk Nation just before the 2013 draft is pretty much the truth and is confirmed by what I think I saw when he played. I don't know that his "flaws" are easily correctable though I hope they are.

Whether EJ pans out or not I fully support and agree with the decision to draft him when and where they did. They had no QB. They took the guy with unquestionably the highest ceiling amongst those available. Trading down netted Kiko who will be a standout for years to come.

Picking EJ was the right thing to do. It also ushered in a fresh and radical change in philosophy towards an aggressive risk taking approach. On the monopoly board of the NFL, a conservative, one might even say complacent attitude will send you directly to jail for fourteen years. You need to take some chances and you need to catch a few breaks along the way. Anyone who likes what Whaley did in the 2014 draft has to like what he did in the 2013 draft. Both drafts are products of the same philosophy.

So I think Whaley is a very smart football exec who has done well, whether all his moves pan out or not. But I don't think he gets all the credit. Buddy laid some of the groundwork in reforming the scouting network and some of Whaley's senior talent evaluation guys look to me to be pretty good too. It takes time to completely overhaul a failed franchise. Doesn't happen overnight when the rot runs so deep.

I agree with what was said earlier about the Steeler precedent. I think Whaley is showing his pedigree in visualizing a team that is physically dominant on both sides of the ball with very high octane potential at the skill positions on offence. Here's hoping he is able to pull it off. If he does then you will have to pay the man to keep him from migrating to a more glamorous venue.

The EJ/Ben comparisons are interesting and intriguing. When Ben was a rook he adequately game managed a good Steeler team. He was competent, wasn't asked to do too much and was able to execute competently. Of course that is actually doing a lot if you're a rookie QB, but of course Ben was indeed a franchise guy who was always able to take the next step. Well see if EJ can fit that mould.

 

I found the article you mentioned. I also think it's an accurate assessment of Manuel's pro prospects. Below are some quotes.

 

**********

His play on the field at Florida State was that of a third- or fourth-rounder. His team had a talent advantage over almost all opponents, and that helped to hide some of his flaws. He was a fine college quarterback whose numbers are better than his play. . . .

 

I am considerably more likely to subscribe to the upside angle when a player is young or inexperienced. Manuel is 23. That's not at all young for a QB coming out of college. And he's not inexperienced. He's had almost 1,000 passing plays in his Florida State career. . . .

 

He really doesn't have a good feel for the game. Manuel is very slow to recognize and react on the field. He doesn't recognize blitzes well, doesn't sense pressure (making it too late to use his athleticism to avoid it), is often slow to get through his reads, and struggles to read coverage in general, both pre and post-snap. FSU had to dumb down its offense a lot for Manuel.

************

 

Back in 2004, TD used a first round pick on a QB with great physical tools--a QB who'd done nothing to suggest he could handle the fast, complex decision-making required of an NFL QB. In part because the Bills took Losman in the first, they didn't take Schaub in the third. Losman's presence on the roster probably also contributed to the decision not to take Aaron Rodgers in 2005. As did their lack of a first round pick; which had been surrendered in the trade for Losman. As did their negative evaluation of Rodgers. These were, after all, the same people who gave Losman a glowing report. It makes sense that the same people who messed up the scouting report for Losman would also mess up the report for Rodgers.

 

Once a team decides it has its QB of the future, it will generally eschew other potential QB prospects. The effect can be devastating, especially if you lose out on an Aaron Rodgers-type prospect. Before making that decision--before labeling some guy your QB of the future--a GM should have some reassurance he can handle the mental aspects of the game. College QBs with great physical gifts but no demonstrated mental acuity are easy to find. It's easy for an NFL GM to pick a guy like that and anoint him the QB of the present. To announce he's going all-in on this QB. To consider the drafting of this QB as a bold, risky move with high "upside" due to the QB's physical gifts.

 

If the Bills are to win the Super Bowl, the Bills' GM should be at least as smart and competent as any competing GM. The kind of GM who'd make the above-described mistake isn't. If Whaley is indeed as on-board with the Manuel decision as he seems, the Bills are very unlikely to win the Super Bowl until he's replaced.

[reddogblitz]

Why not use the "Too soon to say" option? Just curious.

 

It was a close call. But it's too wishy washy. I didn't like the Coach Marrone hire at the time and still don't. I also think the backup QB situation should have been addressed in the off season and wasn't. The whole Crossman thing boggles my mind. Whaley seems like a nice guy and obviously is trying. But until there are more Ws than Ls I can't say he's doing a good job.

[atlbillsfan1975]

I found the article you mentioned. I also think it's an accurate assessment of Manuel's pro prospects. Below are some quotes.

 

**********

His play on the field at Florida State was that of a third- or fourth-rounder. His team had a talent advantage over almost all opponents, and that helped to hide some of his flaws. He was a fine college quarterback whose numbers are better than his play. . . .

 

I am considerably more likely to subscribe to the upside angle when a player is young or inexperienced. Manuel is 23. That's not at all young for a QB coming out of college. And he's not inexperienced. He's had almost 1,000 passing plays in his Florida State career. . . .

 

He really doesn't have a good feel for the game. Manuel is very slow to recognize and react on the field. He doesn't recognize blitzes well, doesn't sense pressure (making it too late to use his athleticism to avoid it), is often slow to get through his reads, and struggles to read coverage in general, both pre and post-snap. FSU had to dumb down its offense a lot for Manuel.

************

 

Back in 2004, TD used a first round pick on a QB with great physical tools--a QB who'd done nothing to suggest he could handle the fast, complex decision-making required of an NFL QB. In part because the Bills took Losman in the first, they didn't take Schaub in the third. Losman's presence on the roster probably also contributed to the decision not to take Aaron Rodgers in 2005. As did their lack of a first round pick; which had been surrendered in the trade for Losman. As did their negative evaluation of Rodgers. These were, after all, the same people who gave Losman a glowing report. It makes sense that the same people who messed up the scouting report for Losman would also mess up the report for Rodgers.

 

Once a team decides it has its QB of the future, it will generally eschew other potential QB prospects. The effect can be devastating, especially if you lose out on an Aaron Rodgers-type prospect. Before making that decision--before labeling some guy your QB of the future--a GM should have some reassurance he can handle the mental aspects of the game. College QBs with great physical gifts but no demonstrated mental acuity are easy to find. It's easy for an NFL GM to pick a guy like that and anoint him the QB of the present. To announce he's going all-in on this QB. To consider the drafting of this QB as a bold, risky move with high "upside" due to the QB's physical gifts.

 

If the Bills are to win the Super Bowl, the Bills' GM should be at least as smart and competent as any competing GM. The kind of GM who'd make the above-described mistake isn't. If Whaley is indeed as on-board with the Manuel decision as he seems, the Bills are very unlikely to win the Super Bowl until he's replaced.

In 2004 TD was maybe told or he said so to his staff we need a QB. So they went out to find one. They probably also took into consideration where they picked and what was available for a trade etc. In the end they forced a pick for a QB who was not first round talent, much less 3 or 4th round.

If EJ does not play well this year Whaley has screwed the Bills for atleast 2 more seasons until they have first round pick again. And even then unless is is the top 3 picks you are still 50/50 on what you get.

[starrymessenger]

 

If EJ doesn't pan out I agree it may weigh heavily on Whaley's reputation.

I personally doubt that Whaley is "all in" on EJ in the sense of being delusional. He understands that there is significant risk. But that is the risk that every GM takes when he drafts a 1st round QB. A first round QB not called Luck that is. And there is only one of those, every 20 years or so.

When asked "how do you know if your QB is a franchise guy" he said " when you know you know". And he has recently said that he wants to see EJ take a big step forward this year. He wasn't saying that he knew EJ to be a franchise QB right now, or that he knew for certain that he was going to make that leap. Whaley is not stupid. He's hoping, as we all are.

Of course in the meantime he will fully and publicly support his QB, as he should.

Should EJ flatline and not show improvement, it will be interesting to see how Whaley reacts, and how long it takes for him to do so.

He may be able to buy some time and improvise if the team is otherwise ready to win. He may be able to deal with the adversity in a resourceful way rather than simply succumbing to it. That could turn out to be the real measure of the man as a GM. Obviously it would be great if it never came to that.

As has been pointed out, having a first round selection in 2015 does not mean that you get to pick a franchise QB. Far from it. So it's not like Whaley has foolishly passed on one.

 

[Gray Beard]

Too soon to tell. But optimistic.

Watkins could be great, or not. Wait and see. He could get injured (which I would not view as a reflection on Whaley), or he could have a QB who can't/won't throw to him in coverage and let him fight for the ball. Wait and see.

The linemen that were drafted have possible back or knee issues, motivation issues, or maturity issues. All picks have a certain risk to them, and these picks are no exception. Wait and see.

When Pettine left, a DC with experience, but not necessarily success, was brought in quickly. Wait and see.

He picked up Spikes and drafted another big LB, which should help the bad run defense. That seems like a good move.

He is fishing for a RB that will help since FJ is getting older and CJ is becoming a free agent (and possibly not really fitting in with Hackett's offense). That seems like a good move.

He is addressing the loss of Byrd by picking up some DBs to see if any work out. That is logical.

Not sure what plan B is if EJ gets hurt or just doesn't get better. That is puzzling.

He drafted some possible special teams fodder. That seems like a good move.

[Rob's House]

I'm leaning toward yes, but went with too soon to say. I assume we're on the upswing, in which case I think he's awesome. However, if 2015 comes and goes and we're still in the cellar, I'll reason that he's been terrible and I was wrong to have approved of his moves. That and I'm still on the fence over Manwel and the Watkins trade.

[AltoonaPaBillsFan]

Whaley has done a fantastic job so far embracing his new position. That being said I ope/pray the coaching staff follows suit. I firmly believe the coaching staff with the time in the offseason has reviewed or better gone over every and anything from last year. With this time off to study and such they will have the players n a better position to win.

[thewildrabbit]

Its all about the wins! Lets hope the Bills have a winning season, and the guy might make it to a second year.