Storm Front Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Can someone who hasn't had much grape kool-aid please explain how the Bills' situation is any better now than it was five years ago from avoiding more 6-10 or 7-9 seasons?: 2009: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (Trent Edwards), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL: Terrell Owens. 2014: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (E.J. Manuel), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL draft: Sammy Watkins. Looking at this logically, the Bills' situation could potentially be much worse in 2014 than it was in 2009 since we traded away our most proven WR (Stevie Johnson) and we will not have a #1 draft pick next season. Please discuss.
KD in CA Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Well let's see: -TO was a head case at the end of his career who ended up in Buffalo because no one else wanted him. Watkins is a rookie with a great attitude and spectacular potential. -We know now that Edwards was terrible. We don't know that about EJ. -There are 51 other positions on the team to evaluate. Difficult to look at it logically when you have started with a lack of any logic in your premise.
Storm Front Posted May 19, 2014 Author Posted May 19, 2014 Difficult to look at it logically when you have started with a lack of any logic in your premise. Or orange Kool aid..
bowery4 Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 OP I say it again, you have the right screen name. Must be fun living in a house of mirrors.
Wayne Cubed Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) Well look at the Cincinnati Bengals: Andy Dalton, average on his best days. But give him AJ Green and all of a sudden the Bengals offense is a threat at anytime. Add to that a very good defense and you have yourself a playoff caliber team in a very tough division. Same logic can be applied to the Bills. We may not know if EJ is very good or not but if Sammy can do what AJ does in Cincy, that changes the whole offense. Edited May 19, 2014 by Wayne Cubed
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Can someone who hasn't had much grape kool-aid please explain how the Bills' situation is any better now than it was five years ago from avoiding more 6-10 or 7-9 seasons?: 2009: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (Trent Edwards), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL: Terrell Owens. 2014: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (E.J. Manuel), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL draft: Sammy Watkins. Looking at this logically, the Bills' situation could potentially be much worse in 2014 than it was in 2009 since we traded away our most proven WR (Stevie Johnson) and we will not have a #1 draft pick next season. Please discuss. Was TO really the top WR in the league in 2008? I thought he was a long-in-the-tooth 36 yr old who had shown a flicker of his 8-year-previous probowl form in 2007, but not sustained enough that the team he flickered for wanted to pay this over the hill FA what he wanted. I don't even think TO was a top-20 WR in 2008, and while he had name recognition, no one would reasonably expect him to become a sustained cornerstone of a rebuilding franchise. At the time I thought it was a total PR move by a team that pretty well had nothing going on offense or defense. We had recently drafted defensive powerhouses like Whitner, McKelvin, and McCargo in the top rounds. At least Gilmore and Dareus can play, not to mention Kiko. So I would say the difference is that if the Bills are right about his potential, Watkins could be reasonably expected to become a top QB-WR pairing with Manuel for seasons to come, whereas at best, TO in his late thirties would have been a stop-gap fill in for a season or two. But I sit ready to be corrected.
Maury Ballstein Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Mario Williams...healthy Gilmore...stud McKelvin....old and young lb's vs run Spikes and Brown....year 2 of Kiko 3 new humongous men to push the OL. EJ's upside > Trent's anything. Jmo Was TO really the top WR in the league in 2008? I thought he was a long-in-the-tooth 36 yr old. A little bit of this as well.
Buftex Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Can someone who hasn't had much grape kool-aid please explain how the Bills' situation is any better now than it was five years ago from avoiding more 6-10 or 7-9 seasons?: 2009: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (Trent Edwards), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL: Terrell Owens. 2014: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (E.J. Manuel), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL draft: Sammy Watkins. Looking at this logically, the Bills' situation could potentially be much worse in 2014 than it was in 2009 since we traded away our most proven WR (Stevie Johnson) and we will not have a #1 draft pick next season. Please discuss. So, apparently, you only want explanations from people who are drinking the prune juice.
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 EJ's upside > Trent's anything. Jmo Bingo. Trent's upside was... Trent Dilfer. So, apparently, you only want explanations from people who are drinking the prune juice. You mean people who are taking a big...
JoeF Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 QB's need outlets that can make plays and move the chains in crucial situations. On third downs that means a receiver that can beat press coverage quickly, catch the ball and get to the sticks. It means getting to the spot to take the throw quickly at the proper depth and angle. Listen to Sammy after the first practice -- he already gets the difference between the pro and college game. In the pros his speed and RAC the catch ability only opens up if he gets to the right spot to receive the ball. Sammy has the potential to have great ability to beat the press but also has elite speed. At his highest ceiling he is Anquan Boldin with Percy Harvin speed. Mid-size (6'-1"), great build (210 lbs), the ability and strength to get off the line and get open quickly, but also the ability to beat you deep if you play him too tight. He is a hybrid, a highly durable body type, strong with both short area and longer distance elite sprint speed. Snatch hands, quick change of direction, great body control, sprinters speed with the strength to run over corners and safeties. He is unique-- tough to plan for. He will make some of EJ's mistakes (off line throws) look like accurate passes. I am truly excited to see him play.
BringBackFergy Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Can someone who hasn't had much grape kool-aid please explain how the Bills' situation is any better now than it was five years ago from avoiding more 6-10 or 7-9 seasons?: 2009: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (Trent Edwards), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL: Terrell Owens. 2014: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (E.J. Manuel), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL draft: Sammy Watkins. Looking at this logically, the Bills' situation could potentially be much worse in 2014 than it was in 2009 since we traded away our most proven WR (Stevie Johnson) and we will not have a #1 draft pick next season. Please discuss. We have Randell Johnson. /thread %RandellGrrrrrrrrrr
TPS Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 I think it's a matter of a 3-point swing. The Bills O averaged 21.2 ppg and the D averaged 24.3 ppg. If those numbers are reversed, I believe the record will also be reversed. On O, I think an improved O-line, a WR who requires double coverage, and a full season from EJ can easily result in move from 21 to 24+ ppg. On D, there's been an improvement at the weakest link, LBs. Despite Pettine's aggressive defense with lots of sacks, the Bills D was in the wrong half of the stat column in ppg. The key IMHO will be for Schwartz's D to lower the ppg total to 21 or less. Overall, I'm more confident that the O will see the 3 point change, but I until I see the new D, it's hard to say if we'll see the improvement there or not? My conclusion: improved O means 8-8 season; improved O and D means 10-6 season.
Storm Front Posted May 19, 2014 Author Posted May 19, 2014 OP I say it again, you have the right screen name. Must be fun living in a house of mirrors. Sorry you don't like my screen name lol. I repair high end audio equipment in my spare time, hence the name "distortions." I also have a difficult time believe everything folks say and what I read! Can you add anything to the discussion besides attacking a screen name? It would be appreciated if you would lay off with the personal attacks in the future. My keyboard is bigger than yours. Thanks!!
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) Can someone who hasn't had much grape kool-aid please explain how the Bills' situation is any better now than it was five years ago from avoiding more 6-10 or 7-9 seasons?: 2009: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (Trent Edwards), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL: Terrell Owens. 2014: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (E.J. Manuel), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL draft: Sammy Watkins. Looking at this logically, the Bills' situation could potentially be much worse in 2014 than it was in 2009 since we traded away our most proven WR (Stevie Johnson) and we will not have a #1 draft pick next season. Please discuss. Easy. Take that whole roster top to bottom and compare it to this one. There is loads more talent and upside. Lots of athletic football players there now. Let's start with comparing talent. -O line was bell and chambers book ending two rookies and hangartner. Now glen, wood at center and Williams who will be a devent starter until maybe a rookie comes in. Urbik has been solid. I'd say this group is a little better now in aggregate, with a huge upgrade at LT and center, but a little worse at guards and the same at RT. Now add in the draft, and at least we are guaranteed to see a much bigger and stronger line than th 09 group. - let's say d line front 4 was a push, where Kelsey/shoebel= Mario/Hughes. And stroud=MD99 - Drayton Florence was a starting comer(brutal) - worst was LBs. Arm fracture Poz, Keith Ellison and 30 yr old kawika Mitchell. I honestly believe the bills second string lbs are better than this trio. - WR... I'll take woods, watkins, Williams and Goodwin over Evans, T-Old, Parrish, josh reed. Who wouldn't? -another testament is the 2009 bills were out gained on the ground and in the air by huge margins. The bills last year who out gained in air and on ground their opponent on average, should be as talented as last year plus or minus the net of losing Byrd and SJ, vs gaining watkins, Williams, spikes, rivers, and these 3 beastly o line guys, brown, + the all important rookie offseason for woods kiko and EJ. If you earnestly try to find similarities it is surely possible you can, at the same time one could find every difference in the world. I also believe there is a superior front office Ian's coaching staff in place, but results will prove or disprove this. The biggest obvious diffference is we know the outcome for one, we don't know the outcome for the other. To me 2009 bills are miles away from this team. The real question will be how will this team compare to the 2013 bills. Edited May 19, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood
Kirby Jackson Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Well I think that it is impossible to evaluate the entire team based on 1 player. It really has nothing to do with TO at all for starters. If you are asking why some of us believe that the Bills will be better I will take a stab: -the OL will be improved and is bigger and nastier. This should improve the run game in short yardage and spring CJ to the 2nd level more than last year. -Run D with Schwartz, Spikes & Preston Brown should be improved. -EJ should get better (how much is debatable but it is safe to assume some progress) -ST had more core ST games so hopefully that won't cost any games again this year -The depth has improved pretty much everywhere -Oh yeah and they added the top skill player to enter the league since AJ Green & Julio Jones In summation the OL is better, the RBs are better, the QB is better, the WR are better, the TEs are better, the ST are better, the DL the same and the LBs are better. The secondary may take a baby step back but they have plenty of talent still. I don't understand how someone can look at this roster objectively and expect the same results? Obviously, things can happen (ie injuries) but on paper this team is vastly improved.
Mark80 Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Can a WR change this team? Maybe, maybe not. But I can tell you that a top WR prospect, another solid WR, a very good young RB, significant OL improvements, a Middle LB who is actually a MLB with the size to help stop the run, another LB for the outside / depth, a very good nickle CB / or possibly Saftey can DEFINITELY change this team.
Bufcomments Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Can someone who hasn't had much grape kool-aid please explain how the Bills' situation is any better now than it was five years ago from avoiding more 6-10 or 7-9 seasons?: 2009: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (Trent Edwards), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL: Terrell Owens. 2014: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (E.J. Manuel), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL draft: Sammy Watkins. Looking at this logically, the Bills' situation could potentially be much worse in 2014 than it was in 2009 since we traded away our most proven WR (Stevie Johnson) and we will not have a #1 draft pick next season. Please discuss. Hey I love Koolaid. lol but seriously tho. Yes a legit WR allows you to balance out the offense. If you really watch last year Teams stacked up on the run vs. the Bills on early downs. They dared EJ to bet them with just an average WRs. And an average line. Watkins even as a rookie has so much talent that teams are going to be forced to defend the whole field. This will open up things for Freddie and C.J. Plus they hopefully upgraded the line. I think both Richardson and Kouandijio (at RG, RT) will be starting sooner or later. If the lineman play and EJ improves as a 2nd year player this offense should have close to 1700 on the ground and 3000 in the air. they do that they will be able to score some points. But Watkins is the key to our offense now. Yall will see , he IMO is that good.
RyanC883 Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Lets not forget the other two first round talent picks the Bills got: Konjo and Henderson. Beastly O-line and good WR's can lead to a Superbowl run with even average QB play
Rocky Landing Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Can someone who hasn't had much grape kool-aid please explain how the Bills' situation is any better now than it was five years ago from avoiding more 6-10 or 7-9 seasons?: 2009: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (Trent Edwards), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL: Terrell Owens. 2014: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (E.J. Manuel), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL draft: Sammy Watkins. Looking at this logically, the Bills' situation could potentially be much worse in 2014 than it was in 2009 since we traded away our most proven WR (Stevie Johnson) and we will not have a #1 draft pick next season. Please discuss. I think that one of the significant differences is that in '09, under Jauron's dreadful "no huddle/no offensive line" scheme, Edwards (who was already gun-shy and ruined by this system, and had earned the moniker, "Captain Check-down") had all of 2.2 seconds to get rid of the ball before getting flattened. So, what good was a deep threat like TO? I think that equally as important as Watkins, is our upgraded (hopefully) O-line. If EJ steps it up (and, granted, that's a big "IF"), he should have time in the pocket, unlike Edwards. Let's hope.
bladiebla Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Can someone who hasn't had much grape kool-aid please explain how the Bills' situation is any better now than it was five years ago from avoiding more 6-10 or 7-9 seasons?: 2009: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (Trent Edwards), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL: Terrell Owens. 2014: The Bills, with an unproven young QB with speculative potential (E.J. Manuel), feel that they are one big player away on offense from making the playoffs and sign the top WR in the NFL draft: Sammy Watkins. Looking at this logically, the Bills' situation could potentially be much worse in 2014 than it was in 2009 since we traded away our most proven WR (Stevie Johnson) and we will not have a #1 draft pick next season. Please discuss. 2009, let's face it, everyone thought Trent Edwards would be back to his 2008 pre-concussion form after the offseason. From his wiki: "Within the first 5 games, Edwards was sacked 18 times. Edwards' worst performance during this time period was week 4 against the Dolphins in which he recorded a season low passer rating of 51.0, threw for a season game-high 3 interceptions, was sacked 6 times, and recorded his only fumble of the season." That about sums it up for 2009. 2014, we're heading into the season trusting that EJ has developed and progressed as 2nd year QBs do plus we've added protection and weapons, whilst removing one of the main targets he didnt trust (SJ) (now we still need to ditch TJ). Can the season be an absolute disaster again? Sure, however it can just as well be an awesome season. I see more reason to be hopefull with the current roster then I was with the 2009 roster to be honest. We seem to have far more playmakers and talent on the current roster compared to 2009.
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