DCBongo Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Right now, EJ seems to have all the tools needed for success. Just like in cooking, you cannot tell how good the cookies are gonna taste until the come out of the oven. Come August and we look at camp and the per-season will we begin to see if EJ is the QB for now and the future. As a Bills fan, I hope to G-D he is, and if he's not, he ought to be cut and bring in someone who can. We do not need the second coming of Kelly; we need some who can competently manage the game, make accurate throws and not make stupid mistakes.
San-O Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 It's simple really. Everyone wants to be able to say "I told you so." The odds are always higher a player will not be great so this is making the easy bet. What are you MRS. E.J. or something? Why always the crusade? If the kid could actually stay on the field for more than a few games, it might help? Yes?
thebandit27 Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 What are you MRS. E.J. or something? Why always the crusade? If the kid could actually stay on the field for more than a few games, it might help? Yes? To be fair, the anti-EJ crowd is making the knee injury issue out to be more than it's been. He missed 6 games and half the preseason; significant for sure, but it's not as though he can't get on the field the way some folks profess.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 What are you MRS. E.J. or something? Why always the crusade? If the kid could actually stay on the field for more than a few games, it might help? Yes? My crusade is against people feel compelled to spin everything to the worst possible outcome. EJ is a question mark. He's not a bust yet though some folks have him pegged that way already. My only take is some people want to be "right" early.
San-O Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 To be fair, the anti-EJ crowd is making the knee injury issue out to be more than it's been. He missed 6 games and half the preseason; significant for sure, but it's not as though he can't get on the field the way some folks profess. Agreed. Let's hope can can stay on the field and make it through the season so at least they will know what they have. My issue is with the apologists who blindly maintain everything is great when it's obvious this far, based in actual performance and nothing else, there are major concerns regarding his health and ability as neither have been on display more than a few games.
Hplarrm Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 My crusade is against people feel compelled to spin everything to the worst possible outcome. EJ is a question mark. He's not a bust yet though some folks have him pegged that way already. My only take is some people want to be "right" early. Exactly! One of the few pieces of conventional wisdom that I actually find to be correct is that one should wait to see how three full seasons of play turn out in terms of actual results before a player is declared a bust or a god. Mike Williams was an immediate starter and looked like a solid prospect after 1 year (only to become a clear bust) and Eric Moulds had two poor production years and then became a legit Pro Bowl and the acknowledged best athlete on the Bills for years. We will almost certainly need to see two more years of his play before drawing a legit conclusion on EJ
San-O Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 My crusade is against people feel compelled to spin everything to the worst possible outcome. EJ is a question mark. He's not a bust yet though some folks have him pegged that way already. My only take is some people want to be "right" early. Quit spinning the BEST possible outcome and let's be objective: He has been injured early and often including two "minor" knee procedures I believe. His play when on the field has been sub-par to this point and he didn't even outplay Thad Lewis by much, if any, IMO. It's hard to say he's a bust when he hasn't made it through a training camp or a regular season, however that result is without question staring this team right in the face if he goes down again or plays poorly again, or shows little improvement. IMO. He has proved nothing to me at this point. Exactly! One of the few pieces of conventional wisdom that I actually find to be correct is that one should wait to see how three full seasons of play turn out in terms of actual results before a player is declared a bust or a god. Mike Williams was an immediate starter and looked like a solid prospect after 1 year (only to become a clear bust) and Eric Moulds had two poor production years and then became a legit Pro Bowl and the acknowledged best athlete on the Bills for years. We will almost certainly need to see two more years of his play before drawing a legit conclusion on EJ Disagree. Like Fitz, and Trent, and J.P., and all the others? They have no backup plan other than Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel, which is scary.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Quit spinning the BEST possible outcome and let's be objective: He has been injured early and often including two "minor" knee procedures I believe. His play when on the field has been sub-par to this point and he didn't even outplay Thad Lewis by much, if any, IMO. It's hard to say he's a bust when he hasn't made it through a training camp or a regular season, however that result is without question staring this team right in the face if he goes down again or plays poorly again, or shows little improvement. IMO. He has proved nothing to me at this point. All you are doing is listing the bad stuff. He did good stuff too. And even if he played poorly he'd shake it off and lead a TD drive late. Also getting injured is bad luck, not an indicator of his ability. Eric Wood had season ending injuries twice. You want to get rid of him too?
K-9 Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 How can you give EJ credit for a comeback in OT? The ball that Chandler fumbled wasn't even in Atlanta territory. The play started on our own 23 yard line and Chandler fumbled on our 43 yard line. There was still a ways to go if you want to consider that a combeback or game winning drive. Because I'm convinced he would have gotten us the extra 25 yards needed for a FG. And also just because I want to. GO BILLS!!!
thebandit27 Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Agreed. Let's hope can can stay on the field and make it through the season so at least they will know what they have. My issue is with the apologists who blindly maintain everything is great when it's obvious this far, based in actual performance and nothing else, there are major concerns regarding his health and ability as neither have been on display more than a few games. I wouldn't say "major", as I'd probably use "considerable" as a more appropriate word. Other than that we're on the same page.
playman Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Superbowl rings are an irrelevant statistic. Dan Marino is 100X the quarterback that Simms was. When all is said and done, it takes a TEAM to win it all. Simms wasn't all that. Historic version of Joe Flacco. SNORE! Adding to that, let's just look at his "wonderful" Superbowl season. 21 TD passes and 22 interceptions. Add 9 fumbles, of which 6 were lost. I'm sure Joe Morris and his 1,500 rushing yards had little to do with their success, nor Lawrence Taylor and his 20.5 sacks. The Giants gave Phil Simms a Superbowl ring and not the other way around. You can actually see a lot by simply looking, or simply put your head in the ground like an ostrich. I choose the former. wich is exactly the point. get a team with wich almost any qb can win it all. seriously, the seahaws haven´t won it because of wilson. he didn´t hurt their case, but he hasn´t won it by himself either. Edited May 18, 2014 by playman
Beerball Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 Superbowl rings are an irrelevant statistic. Dan Marino is 100X the quarterback that Simms was. Not hardly. Lack of a SB win keeps Marino out of the "best QB of all time" talk. We will almost certainly need to see two more years of his play before drawing a legit conclusion on EJ So, it's 48 games? We still owe a bunch to JP, Trent and Fitz don't we?
DC Tom Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 So, it's 48 games? Yep. About a thousand snaps to see if a QB is developing in to something good or not.
Pills -N- Bills Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 You wrote 2 1/4 sentences bitching about what someone posted on a forum that is here to create discussion to prove what? Again? Ever heard of the phrase "Hop Off"?
BackInDaDay Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Personally, I find EJ's best quality is his desire to improve and his willingness to be coached up. Adding that quality to a big, strong kid who has the ability to translate his preparation to solid game play - and it's hard for an old pessimistic fan like myself, not to like his chances of succeeding.
jaybee Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Personally, I find EJ's best quality is his desire to improve and his willingness to be coached up. Adding that quality to a big, strong kid who has the ability to translate his preparation to solid game play - and it's hard for an old pessimistic fan like myself, not to like his chances of succeeding. Nothing here to add to that logic. Hey, whether you love em or hate em, we have to route for him. I have a gut feeling he's going to surprise us this year. I'm not right very often but I hope I am this time.
Beerball Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Ever heard of the phrase "Hop Off"? Ever heard the phrase "what's good for the goose...?" Yep. About a thousand snaps to see if a QB is developing in to something good or not. Is that 48 games worth? Wake me up when it's time to switch from JP to Trent. I want to be there for the good times.
Hplarrm Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Quit spinning the BEST possible outcome and let's be objective: He has been injured early and often including two "minor" knee procedures I believe. His play when on the field has been sub-par to this point and he didn't even outplay Thad Lewis by much, if any, IMO. It's hard to say he's a bust when he hasn't made it through a training camp or a regular season, however that result is without question staring this team right in the face if he goes down again or plays poorly again, or shows little improvement. IMO. He has proved nothing to me at this point. Disagree. Like Fitz, and Trent, and J.P., and all the others? They have no backup plan other than Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel, which is scary. Nope. Think about the real world. It took a couple of years for Moulds to be developed and for him to develop himself before he became the consistent Pro Bowl level player he was. All I am arguing is that you do not panic and declare EJ a bust when while he clearly has not proven himself to be a franchise player he has: 1. Demonstrated in college he can be a winner and a quality leader with some positive aspects (mobility, strong arm, good college level game manager) but clearly he needs work and coaching. Like Mayock said MManual is not about immediate production (even though he actually turned out to be more productive than most other rookie QB like Geno Smith). 2. As a pro he demonstrated that though not consistent yet, he is capable of leading a team to a win at times (no small feat for a rookie QB leading a not very good team. Is he a definite player? Not yet. However, is this rookie a keeper or someone who you should panic and spend more resources in the next futile effort to find a QB who can start and win immediately with this team (btw who doyou think this fantasy player is)? 3. I think there is a plan B which is: A. Know that Plan A (Go with Manual as the choice with the highest upside of the 2013 QBs did not prove realistically unachievable results with this very incomplete team, but he showed enough though he clearly is not there yet, it would simply be bad football to panic and not build the team up whether it is gonna be around him or someone else. B. Plan B cannot be to find another starter level player to be our back-up (like lets get one starter level player first) but we are looking for a player to fill the Frank Reich role for the Bills. Can Thad Lewis start and win probably a max of three games for you if needed? I think he might be able to do this. Plan C.- Take a flyer on a disaster QB who almost certainly will not work (Tuel) but most important have some cap room so if Manual does not fulfill or gets hurt, you can buy an FA QB for your reinforced team (Watkins, et al this year) to try to make the playoffs next year after Manual fails to do so this year. Even with this scenario, I am reluctant to declare Manual a bust unless he is reall6y bad in his second year. Was Manual not good enough in his first year? Yep, he is not the playoff level performer we need. Was Manual so bad in his first year we should panic and go casting about for someone else to meet some impossible goal? Nope. What do you propose we do? Not hardly. Lack of a SB win keeps Marino out of the "best QB of all time" talk. So, it's 48 games? We still owe a bunch to JP, Trent and Fitz don't we? Nope. Think about the real world. It took a couple of years for Moulds to be developed and for him to develop himself before he became the consistent Pro Bowl level player he was. All I am arguing is that you do not panic and declare EJ a bust when while he clearly has not proven himself to be a franchise player he has: 1. Demonstrated in college he can be a winner and a quality leader with some positive aspects (mobility, strong arm, good college level game manager) but clearly he needs work and coaching. Like Mayock said MManual is not about immediate production (even though he actually turned out to be more productive than most other rookie QB like Geno Smith). 2. As a pro he demonstrated that though not consistent yet, he is capable of leading a team to a win at times (no small feat for a rookie QB leading a not very good team. Is he a definite player? Not yet. However, is this rookie a keeper or someone who you should panic and spend more resources in the next futile effort to find a QB who can start and win immediately with this team (btw who doyou think this fantasy player is)? 3. I think there is a plan B which is: A. Know that Plan A (Go with Manual as the choice with the highest upside of the 2013 QBs did not prove realistically unachievable results with this very incomplete team, but he showed enough though he clearly is not there yet, it would simply be bad football to panic and not build the team up whether it is gonna be around him or someone else. B. Plan B cannot be to find another starter level player to be our back-up (like lets get one starter level player first) but we are looking for a player to fill the Frank Reich role for the Bills. Can Thad Lewis start and win probably a max of three games for you if needed? I think he might be able to do this. Plan C.- Take a flyer on a disaster QB who almost certainly will not work (Tuel) but most important have some cap room so if Manual does not fulfill or gets hurt, you can buy an FA QB for your reinforced team (Watkins, et al this year) to try to make the playoffs next year after Manual fails to do so this year. Even with this scenario, I am reluctant to declare Manual a bust unless he is reall6y bad in his second year. Was Manual not good enough in his first year? Yep, he is not the playoff level performer we need. Was Manual so bad in his first year we should panic and go casting about for someone else to meet some impossible goal? Nope. What do you propose we do?
Solomon Grundy Posted May 19, 2014 Author Posted May 19, 2014 All you are doing is listing the bad stuff. He did good stuff too. And even if he played poorly he'd shake it off and lead a TD drive late. Also getting injured is bad luck, not an indicator of his ability. Eric Wood had season ending injuries twice. You want to get rid of him too? Promo you are a god on this blog!
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