34-78-83 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Mario is elite , period (and it's not just about sacks). If someone can't see that, they need to watch more tape/film/replays of him playing. He is a top 5 DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 They are rating every team like this so far. Lots of yellows where many of us would see light green and so on. I think the average person tends to be more lenient with their grading. An "average" starter is still a good player, but that's because they should be good to be a player in the league. Kid of click-baity. No real explanation of EJ (I'd put him at below-average after a rookie season of ups and downs and injury, "poor" suggests the need for immediate replacement, which I am not buying). Mario Williams as anything other than elite is a clear joke. Eric Wood is also at least a "Good starter" and is better at his job than Kraig Urbik is. McKelvin was a good starter last year. Everyone keeps underestimating Urbik. I feel like I have to keep coming to his defense around here. He had a better season than Wood and has been solid for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Mario is elite , period (and it's not just about sacks). If someone can't see that, they need to watch more tape/film/replays of him playing. He is a top 5 DE. Agreed...he does his job in spectacular fashion every game. Everyone keeps underestimating Urbik. I feel like I have to keep coming to his defense around here. He had a better season than Wood and has been solid for us. With the exception of the bold I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 With the exception of the bold I agree. Really? Wood took a lot of penalties last year. Otherwise I would say they were about even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Lawson is going to play DE and Corey Graham will be the starting FS. Rivers will be at OLB. They don't even have the right lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Ouch. Its actually not bad. You want yellow and above. Its a team game. So if your worst starter is considered "average" as a team you have got to be significantly above average. For Example the Bills defense would be considered better than the Ravens in PFF's chart: https://www.profootb...ltimore-ravens/ The Ravens have 1 below average player and zero elites (how Ngata is not elite I don't know) The Patriots chart is not out but I can't imagine their defensive chart would look very good. https://www.profootb...4-depth-charts/ Edited May 15, 2014 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Lawson is going to play DE and Corey Graham will be the starting FS. Rivers will be at OLB. They don't even have the right lineup. They said he will be in the mix but not confirmed CG there... I agree that this is likely though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juice_32 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I don't think anyone is worse than Doug Legursky (other than Colin Brown). He should have his very own color called "Legursky". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Its actually not bad. You want yellow and above. Its a team game. So if your worst starter is considered "average" as a team you have got to be significantly above average. For Example the Bills defense would be considered better than the Ravens in PFF's chart: https://www.profootb...ltimore-ravens/ The Ravens have 1 below average player and zero elites (how Ngata is not elite I don't know) The Patriots chart is not out but I can't imagine their defensive chart would look very good. https://www.profootb...4-depth-charts/ Also according to that: Elvis Dummervill > Mario Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Just goes to show you......nobody really follows our team and only winning changes that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Just goes to show you......nobody really follows our team and only winning changes that They grade every snap of every team. I dont have an issue with the Bills grades. Its actually not bad. I bet if they did power rankings of team scores the Bills would be in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Dustin Hopkins ahead of Dan Carpenter on the depth chart? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Just goes to show you......nobody really follows our team and only winning changes that So true. Dustin Hopkins ahead of Dan Carpenter on the depth chart? Really? Yeah, that is one of the more glaring mistakes. Everyone keeps underestimating Urbik. I feel like I have to keep coming to his defense around here. He had a better season than Wood and has been solid for us. Completely agree. Urbik may not be an all-pro, but he is not a weakness of the team. He's an above average Guard and he's been a solid player for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Just goes to show you......nobody really follows our team and only winning changes that Yeah, that's about the gist of it. And given the explosion in Inter-web "commentary," analytic mumbo jumbo, etc., it's only getting worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Mario is elite , period (and it's not just about sacks). If someone can't see that, they need to watch more tape/film/replays of him playing. He is a top 5 DE. Mario is elite, when he wants to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 They grade every snap of every team. I dont have an issue with the Bills grades. Its actually not bad. I bet if they did power rankings of team scores the Bills would be in the middle. Right. Again, most teams should have mostly average starters. The average football fan will grade more leniently than the unbiased perspective that PFF goes for. If you look at the other teams done so far, they have a lot of yellow too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Also according to that: Elvis Dummervill > Mario Williams Yeah I know. I'm not even going to bother arguing the "rankings" just roll my eyes in that general direction. But just taking it at face value I don't think the rankings show a bad Bills team in comparison to other NFL teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I take exception to the following: Mario Williams is minimum High Quality and very close to Elite. Cordy Glenn is High Quality Fred Jackson is High Quality Eric Wood is at minimum Good Starter and very close to High Quality Stephon Gilmore is Good Starter Dan Carpenter is Good Starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) Kiko is rated as simply a "good starter," yet last night he got chosen by another group as a top 100 player in the NFL. Lee Smith should probably be an orange. Jeff Tuel is at least a dark green. At least. Pretty harsh on EJ, but whatever. After reading their notes on the bottom of the page, it seems like they are making some guesses without having all the information. They claim to be baffled by the bills signing slot corner Corey Graham after Robey had such a good year. I'm expecting Graham to play FS. Yeah, the math/methodology most likely doesn't support rating Kiko as "good starter". Although, outliers do happen. Most likely: This is a case where the method reveals all. Consider: why 8 categories? 8 Categories was chosen because a significant # of players are distinctly "better" than "good", and then "elite", and then "worse" than "average", with some being unknown/injured/rookie = the bell curve is flatter than with a normal distribution. If the bell was weighted heavily towards average: then why 8 categories? Why not 4: good, average, bad, unknown? Or, why use "elite" and "poor"...when what we are really talking about is "shades of average", none of which are "good", or "bad"? Thus, it's safe to assume that "elite" includes 100 players at least, in a domain of 1696(53*32). Perhaps more like 150-200 given that the observations are consistent, and the are collected consistently. This is KEY: "elite" players routinely have bad games. If "elite" is an objective, but, relative(which it is) standard? Bad games, pushes the line for "elite" down, such that more players are considered "elite". That's why 150 "elite" players is more likely than 50. Kiko is easily on that list of 150. So, his ranking is an aberration, or just an outlier, but, probably reveals an error in measurement/data collection. Yeah, that's about the gist of it. And given the explosion in Inter-web "commentary," analytic mumbo jumbo, etc., it's only getting worse... No. What's getting worse is: hacks trying to do my job, who have neither the intelligence(can't teach it), education, or experience to execute it properly. It's like with anything else: somebody(like Football Outsiders) actually puts out a rigorous effort, gains notoriety with it, and then 100 somebody elses decide to rush into the market and grab a piece of the action. The copycats are the problem. But, not every copy cat is a problem either. There's nothing wrong with PFF's methodology, except one thing: it relies on the subjective opinion of the guys that watch the game. Now, in one sense, that is no problem, if that subjective opinion is applied consistently to all teams. (Example: strike zone for a good umpire) It's a bias, but, it's a meaningless bias, because all our results contain the same exact bias...so the relationships/patterns we may observe, are preserved. However, when it comes to the Bills, the subjective opinion, if it changes(which it routinely does for most football aware people, and this is not malice, usually, it's merely human nature), is not applied equally, and so, the real bias becomes meaningful. (Example: the strike zone gets bigger/smaller). The way to fix this? Test the observers to identify team to team bias. Kick the team-biased observers to the curb. Also, obfuscate the team colors and chop off the helmets, on the film that is reviewed. Make sure nobody reviews the same team over and over, by randomizing who they watch each week. Edited May 15, 2014 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Mike Rodak @mikerodak 26m Pumping the brakes on talk of the Bills moving Corey Graham to safety: http://es.pn/T7JBuG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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