(Offseason)QB coach: EJ Manuel could be bound for Pro Bowl season

[Max997]

NFL players don't sit around and play Madden in the offseason. They may not be permitted to work with the team coaches, but they are still working.

 

Willis McGahee would disagree

[YoloinOhio]

Willis McGahee would disagree

Is that right? Well I do think RBs may not be as regimented as a QB/WR.

[Max997]

Phillip Rivers. Weird mechanics. Great QB.

 

he has a sidearm delivery which i wouldnt call weird and def not the first QB to throw like that

 

Is that right? Well I do think RBs may not be as regimented as a QB/WR.

 

i just know he was/is a big fan...there was some special where a fan won a chance to play him and part of it was Willis in his Miami condo playing Madden looking about as stoned as someone could possibly look

Edited May 15, 2014 by Max997

[Kelly the Dog]

The players most assuredly play Madden, all the time.

[YoloinOhio]

he has a sidearm delivery which i wouldnt call weird and def not the first QB to throw like that

 

 

 

i just know he was/is a big fan...there was some special where a fan won a chance to play him and part of it was Willis in his Miami condo playing Madden looking about as stoned as someone could possibly look

hahaha

 

The players most assuredly play Madden, all the time.

Of course, I just meant that is not ALL they do. They do prepare in the offseason, maybe not all but most.

[Security]

This guy has been working with EJ for a long time now, he has seen what he can do. He does not have all the bad habits, but needs to eliminate some. This is different than that joke of a QB guru everyone thought would transform turnover machine noodle arm Fitz into an All Pro.

[John from Riverside]

These ^^^

 

I think it is very difficult to overhaul your mechanics. It's not impossible, but I imagine it would take a huge amount of effort and repetition. Are two one week sessions enough? I would think he needs to practices these things for hours everyday. Is he? I don't know.

 

Tom Brady did it after the Giants Super Bowl win over the Pats, but he's Tom Brady. He shortened his throwing motion so it is very compact and fast. I could see him spending 10 hours a day in front of a mirror to change his throwing motion. He's that dedicated.

 

I hope EJ is that dedicated.

 

He isnt overhauling his mechanics.....he is fine tuning them

 

I swear to christ people act like he went out on the field and the ball kept falling out of his grasp on every snap.....there are very SPECIFIC things EJ needs to work on and that is what he is improving this offseason

 

- Deep passes were getting better by the end of the year

- Intermediate passes were never in question

- Needs to trust his receivers to fight for balls (and that comes with reps)

[Mr. WEO]

He isnt overhauling his mechanics.....he is fine tuning them

 

I swear to christ people act like he went out on the field and the ball kept falling out of his grasp on every snap.

 

Why didn't Christ just make him a better QB?

 

Jeez...

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Why didn't Christ just make him a better QB?

 

Jeez...

Nailed it!!!

[Security]

He isnt overhauling his mechanics.....he is fine tuning them

 

I swear to christ people act like he went out on the field and the ball kept falling out of his grasp on every snap.....there are very SPECIFIC things EJ needs to work on and that is what he is improving this offseason

 

- Deep passes were getting better by the end of the year

- Intermediate passes were never in question

- Needs to trust his receivers to fight for balls (and that comes with reps)

 

He seemed to throw some good intermediate over the middle balls. Needs to not float as much sometimes, as not be the WR killer that Fitz was, but overall was pretty good.

 

That WR "fight" catch is hard. Has to be in the spot to still your guy the best chance to beat the other guys, but yeah, that is with reps and who the WR is (better at jumping, muscling out, going to the ground, etc).

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

He seemed to throw some good intermediate over the middle balls. Needs to not float as much sometimes, as not be the WR killer that Fitz was, but overall was pretty good.

 

That WR "fight" catch is hard. Has to be in the spot to still your guy the best chance to beat the other guys, but yeah, that is with reps and who the WR is (better at jumping, muscling out, going to the ground, etc).

Agreed. Although I think what the poster meant and what Hackett was trying to get him to do more was not just the fight catch, but just throwing the ball to your target receiver in single coverage even if he were not wide open. That is what Thad did a lot better than EJ, and as you say it comes with reps. He was too hesitant at times with the ball, and should have just thrown it deep as soon as he was set if the coverage was what they expected off the snap. He needs to trust that his receivers will go get it on a good throw even if they are not wide open. That is where he got in trouble a lot.

[thebandit27]

Agreed. Although I think what the poster meant and what Hackett was trying to get him to do more was not just the fight catch, but just throwing the ball to your target receiver in single coverage even if he were not wide open. That is what Thad did a lot better than EJ, and as you say it comes with reps. He was too hesitant at times with the ball, and should have just thrown it deep as soon as he was set if the coverage was what they expected off the snap. He needs to trust that his receivers will go get it on a good throw even if they are not wide open. That is where he got in trouble a lot.

 

Good stuff Kelly

[BillsBytheBay]

 

 

this is basic mechanics we are talking about here which is just that, the basics so i cant buy the not enough time stuff

but time and repetition is exactly what it takes.

[1billsfan]

I think the 2014 version of EJ Manuel could be a lot like the 2013 version of Nick Foles. There's a lot of similarities there. Specifically, both QBs were the NFL prototypical tall QBs with pretty good arms but with a lot of rawness. Even tough they were raw, they were seen as having realistic ceilings of potential franchise QBs. Both showed up and down play in their rookie seasons in the league which was very typical before the Lucks, RGIIIs and Wilsons were instant NFL "greats" as rookies.

 

If EJ Manuel is placed in a balanced, quick read, disperse the ball, up tempo offense with occasional deep throws then he doesn't have to be a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to get the job done. With Chip, Foles enjoyed and made great strides in a very QB friendly system that made the skilled players the stars more than the QB. Foles' ability to escape and extend plays was very key in 2013 and I see Manuel having that same skill set.

 

Now with the addition of the new road graders on the OL, and of course Sammy Watkins, and no longer having a rookie HC, OC, and with an extra year under his belt, I see Manuel having a shot at having the 4th or 5th best QB season in the AFC. Manning, Luck, Brady will of course probably all have better seasons, but after that I think there's a shot he beats out the Rothlesberger, Flacco, Dalton second tier QB types given the players the Bills now have on offense. If you can't have a very good season with the skilled players the Bills now have then you're probably not ever going to be a good QB.

Edited May 15, 2014 by 1billsfan

[eball]

Agreed. Although I think what the poster meant and what Hackett was trying to get him to do more was not just the fight catch, but just throwing the ball to your target receiver in single coverage even if he were not wide open. That is what Thad did a lot better than EJ, and as you say it comes with reps. He was too hesitant at times with the ball, and should have just thrown it deep as soon as he was set if the coverage was what they expected off the snap. He needs to trust that his receivers will go get it on a good throw even if they are not wide open. That is where he got in trouble a lot.

 

The funny thing is, I think EJ did the best job of this all season in the home opener against the Pats*! He "threw to a spot" for Chandler at least once, and the "drop it into a bucket" TD throw to Stevie was superb. I think we're all hoping he can do that consistently; he also showed signs in the 2nd Jets game, particularly underthrowing Graham on the one TD.

[Campy]

I won't bore you with the details of my shoulder dislocations, multiple separations, the subsequently shredded ligaments that accompanied them other than to say they are the reasons why I had to be taught to throw all over again. I mean, what good am I to my beer league softball team if I can't make the throw from short to 1st, right?

 

What I learned leads me to believe that many of you talk about throwing mechanics like you have a clue but don't really know much about it. If you want to correct that - or if you want to learn 'sup with EJ - just read on...

 

In a proper throwing motion, about halfway through the elbow should be right around a half-foot in front. This ensures your arm is at the correct height and is referred to as the neutral position because there is virtually no stress on the muscles or joints. It's a position where the shoulder and elbow are at their safest and strongest as the elbow, wrist, and ball can continue through the throwing motion on a single plane. This allows for maximum power and maximum accuracy.

 

When, halfway through the throwing motion, the elbow is not far enough in front it means the arm is too low. And when that happens, the shoulder will seize up a little to prevent too much stress from being placed on it. And since it never achieves the neutral position, the shoulder twists causing the wrist to swing out past the elbow creating a sidearm throwing motion. This type of throwing motion compromises accuracy because the elbow, wrist, and ball are not moving on a single plane. And because the shoulder doesn't achieve neutral position, energy is used to compensate for the twisting in the shoulder instead of propelling the ball forward which compromises power.

 

If the elbow is too far in front, the arm is too high and, like before, the shoulder never reaches the neutral position. The elbow, wrist and ball move on different planes, and the shoulder never achieves neutral position. Like the sidearm throw, power and accuracy are compromised but it's actually worse because when the arm is too high, the ball has to be released from a higher position - and that means it's being released too soon in the throw and you lose A LOT of power.

 

Think of playing catch with your 6 year old nephew. Sure, you slow your arm speed, but you probably do more than that because you don't want to drill him with the ball and catch a lot of crap from your otherwise cool sister. Chances are you kind of put some air under it and float it to him so he has a chance to catch it. And whether you realize it or not, what you're actually doing is releasing the ball much earlier in the throw than you otherwise would.

 

And that's why EJ throws a lot of floaters on intermediate and deeper passes: He's carrying his elbow too high halfway through the throwing motion which robs him of accuracy and power, and he has to compensate for the elbow being too high by releasing it too soon and causing the ball to float or sail.

 

It could be due to excitement, pressure, tensing up to make a big play, gritting his teeth, whatever, but once he settles down and starts getting his elbow ti hit neutral halfway through the throwing motion (through repetition and muscle memory), sailing and floating those intermediate passes will go away.

 

And here's the bonus: On short passes his elbow achieves the neutral position, but because his muscle memory has him overcompensating for the lack of power on the intermediate passes, he tends to throw those too-powerful bullets. As he settles in and begins to hit neutral on the longer balls, his touch on shorter balls will improve dramatically.

 

Or we'll be looking for another QB in a year or two.

 

 

*drops mic

*walks off stage

[billykaykay]

He isnt overhauling his mechanics.....he is fine tuning them

 

I swear to christ people act like he went out on the field and the ball kept falling out of his grasp on every snap.....there are very SPECIFIC things EJ needs to work on and that is what he is improving this offseason

 

- Deep passes were getting better by the end of the year

- Intermediate passes were never in question

- Needs to trust his receivers to fight for balls (and that comes with reps)

Trusting his receivers has a lot to do with confidence. As a rookie, he didn't exhibit much confidence in throwing to receivers with DB's near by. Hopefully, with a year under his belt he will gain this confidence.

[thebandit27]

I won't bore you with the details of my shoulder dislocations, multiple separations, the subsequently shredded ligaments that accompanied them other than to say they are the reasons why I had to be taught to throw all over again. I mean, what good am I to my beer league softball team if I can't make the throw from short to 1st, right?

 

What I learned leads me to believe that many of you talk about throwing mechanics like you have a clue but don't really know much about it. If you want to correct that - or if you want to learn 'sup with EJ - just read on...

 

In a proper throwing motion, about halfway through the elbow should be right around a half-foot in front. This ensures your arm is at the correct height and is referred to as the neutral position because there is virtually no stress on the muscles or joints. It's a position where the shoulder and elbow are at their safest and strongest as the elbow, wrist, and ball can continue through the throwing motion on a single plane. This allows for maximum power and maximum accuracy.

 

When, halfway through the throwing motion, the elbow is not far enough in front it means the arm is too low. And when that happens, the shoulder will seize up a little to prevent too much stress from being placed on it. And since it never achieves the neutral position, the shoulder twists causing the wrist to swing out past the elbow creating a sidearm throwing motion. This type of throwing motion compromises accuracy because the elbow, wrist, and ball are not moving on a single plane. And because the shoulder doesn't achieve neutral position, energy is used to compensate for the twisting in the shoulder instead of propelling the ball forward which compromises power.

 

If the elbow is too far in front, the arm is too high and, like before, the shoulder never reaches the neutral position. The elbow, wrist and ball move on different planes, and the shoulder never achieves neutral position. Like the sidearm throw, power and accuracy are compromised but it's actually worse because when the arm is too high, the ball has to be released from a higher position - and that means it's being released too soon in the throw and you lose A LOT of power.

 

Think of playing catch with your 6 year old nephew. Sure, you slow your arm speed, but you probably do more than that because you don't want to drill him with the ball and catch a lot of crap from your otherwise cool sister. Chances are you kind of put some air under it and float it to him so he has a chance to catch it. And whether you realize it or not, what you're actually doing is releasing the ball much earlier in the throw than you otherwise would.

 

And that's why EJ throws a lot of floaters on intermediate and deeper passes: He's carrying his elbow too high halfway through the throwing motion which robs him of accuracy and power, and he has to compensate for the elbow being too high by releasing it too soon and causing the ball to float or sail.

 

It could be due to excitement, pressure, tensing up to make a big play, gritting his teeth, whatever, but once he settles down and starts getting his elbow ti hit neutral halfway through the throwing motion (through repetition and muscle memory), sailing and floating those intermediate passes will go away.

 

And here's the bonus: On short passes his elbow achieves the neutral position, but because his muscle memory has him overcompensating for the lack of power on the intermediate passes, he tends to throw those too-powerful bullets. As he settles in and begins to hit neutral on the longer balls, his touch on shorter balls will improve dramatically.

 

Or we'll be looking for another QB in a year or two.

 

 

*drops mic

*walks off stage

 

While most of the generalities that you're saying regarding throwing motion are true, I actually don't find many flaws with EJ's upper body mechanics. His tendency to over-pronate and under-supinate is more rare than you're leading on here, and is far less of a concern to me than his lower body. I actually find his viper coil and release to be extremely efficient (not Brees or Rodgers efficient, but hey, he's a rookie); his long stride and shuffling of his feet are--IMO--the biggest deficiency.

Edited May 15, 2014 by thebandit27

[Herb62]

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[Herb62]

These puff articles about new coaches, training techniques, change of scenery, etc are a dime a dozen. How could we forget the one in the Buffalo News about John McCargo's rebirth under Bill Kollar. There is no substitute for experience and hard work but you also need talent to succeed in the NFL, especially at QB. Look no farther than Ryan Fitzpatrick or JP Losman.

He is far more phisicly gifted than Shitzpatrick or looserman