Maury Ballstein Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I still don't like the cost of the trade. Is Watkins that much better than Beckham? ...who we could have gotten at 9. Is Beckham better than Tj graham ?
Dante Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 It remains to be seen in the NFL, yes. But on the college level, there is absolutely no question Watkins is far better based on their college careers alone. Beckham is talented, but he was never considered the generational talent that Watkins is. GO BILLS!!! We need elite players. That comes at a high price. We paid it but we have a elite player. Hopefully
Manther Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 And the sad thing is local media is whining as well. We gave up two #1 picks for a guy that most likely (according to EVERY 'expert') will become an elite player. But Buffalo gave up too much? What is an elite player that other teams must game plan for worth? I don't remember anywhere near the angst from NFLN, ESPN Etal. about the Julio Jones trade and they gave up essentially THREE #1's a #2 etc. But why is this? Because its BUFFALO! All of a sudden this 'elite' player who many teams had #1 Overall on their board 'must work out to justify the cost'? Um this is the same guy you guys were touting as either the top guy or top 2 in your analysis and mock drafts right? The same guy who the experts said would be an elite WR, that would excel in the NFL, a 'No miss prospect'? But all of a sudden he must work out? Typical Bull **** bias toward the Bills and it has been glaring from that pick through now when the media and some fans are still whining about it. Sometimes you just have to pull the trigger. Who knows who we get next year and honestly I dont give a damn about the 2015 draft at all. I want to win NOW. I want to see significant progress NOW. And if whaley is good he will keep the quality talent he knows can fit our system and win (within reason...) and he can find talent in the 2nd round on next year. If we have a playoff team THIS year, adding to it in the future is much easier...the core of the playoff team is already in place! Look Whaley has put together a team that should gel pretty damn well before that really crappy December run. If we get a RT And Guard that start and kick ass, along with The running game improving and Watkins, Wood, Williams and Goodwin kicking ass along with FINALLY stopping the run much better than we did, then this team is light years ahead of even last year. And to me that means playoffs. Ill just say it right now, (and I get these are two if's) IF the team stays healthy, and IF the new guys Gel... We beat NE for the AFCE Title. Yes I said it, we will win the AFC East division title. Its on like a Mofo! Could not agree more. Until the IFs, but, I do agree with the IFs too. Just not as strong. Love the draft and in perspective the picks given up for Watkins is a GOOD deal for us. Why do people value picks so much. You can always recoup picks. How many teams trade back into the 1st round every year? Why would you not want more picks and higher picks in the deepest draft in years (2014). We did NOT even give up a future pick in 2014 (besides swapping for a higher one, brilliant!). We can't always be playing for the long,long-term future. I read something yesterday that we have 3 or 4 players over 30 on our roster. That is it. Our window starts now. We don't need to be in a 14 year rebuild. IMO we have been building well since Buddy's 2nd draft, his 1st draft with a full season on the job. Whaley is taking the rebuild to the next level. Don't hate on it, embrace it, it is what we have all been waiting for!! Go Bills!! The most irritating thing is when I see media or posters incorrectly state we gave up 2 first round picks. We only lost ONE first round pick in the trade up. We traded 2 and got back one first rounder. 2-1 = 1 and for the life of me I can not figure out why that math equation is difficult for the media and posters on this board to grasp. Once again, the ONLY cost associated with getting in position to get Watkins was the additional picks. AGREED! This drives me crazy. Really, if they are worried about this....I am sure these peoples poor math lead to many more problem in their daily lives! It is just simple math! We gave up a future 1st round pick and a future 4th round pick. That is all! I find it interesting that people are downgrading the Bills' draft because of what they gave up next year to get Watkins. That should only reflect on next year's grade. I also find it laughable that because the Bills aren't a SB contender (SB? What about playoffs?), it was as dumb move. If EJ takes a step forward, they could be. If he doesn't and they find a QB in the next 2 drafts, they could be. It doesn't mean they shouldn't try to acquire good players. Totally agree. Why do we have such a bad draft because we are missing next years 1st round pick. Just annoying! Ohh yeah... in case anyone has been actually keeping score...... WE DIDN"T give up 2 first round picks..... see, we gave UP 2 1st round picks.... wait for it....... FOR ONE in return. That means a net loss of......1! Whew! math is hard in the NFL.... Imagine you had trading partners that would just swap 1st rounders. Like when Minnesota missed their pick and ran out of time, twice in a row!
T master Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 How do they figure we gave up 2 first round picks ? We got him with a first round pick so that was ours that yes we used the #9 to trade up but we still had a first round pick so where i'm sitting it looks like we gave up next years first WHICH IS ONE FIRST ROUND PICK !!! & a fourth ??? What kind of math did the EXPERTS study ??
Manther Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I love the move by Whaley to get Watkins. He was by far and away the most talented offensive player in the draft & truly an ELITE WR prospect . Before the draft, I was hesitant to move up because I felt for sure it would cost us our 2nd and there was no way I wanted to lose that pick. I knew therror woukd be a 1st round talent there, and there was. Whaley did a masterful job. I will gladly give up next year's 1st in exchange for the best WR prospect to come out since Green/Jones. You rarely are ever in position to get a player of Sammy Watkins caliber. Whaley realized that & made it happen. On top of that, he kept our 2nd and turned that into a starting 1st round talent RT. I would be willing to bet Cyrus K will be better then whomever they could've picked with their 2015 1st. The argument of we should've just stayed put and took Odell Beckam is bunk. Watkins is in the elite class of WRs that can do it all & has size. Beckam is just another small burner; we already have that in Goodwin. Watkins is a 6'1" / 212lb #1 WR that plays even bigger. We haven't had a true #1 with his size and skill set since Moulds. All the haters that aren't just trolls will quit their whining as soon as Watkins takes his first 5 yard screen pass 70 yards to the house. Book it Loved that we kept our 2nd round pick in 2014. Preferred to trade 2015 #1 instead too. And, we made a strong pick in the 2nd, Cyrus K, to help emphasize the depth of the 2014 draft.
Montana Mike Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 The most irritating thing is when I see media or posters incorrectly state we gave up 2 first round picks. We only lost ONE first round pick in the trade up. We traded 2 and got back one first rounder. 2-1 = 1 and for the life of me I can not figure out why that math equation is difficult for the media and posters on this board to grasp. Once again, the ONLY cost associated with getting in position to get Watkins was the additional picks. Plus1
Flutie7Flakes Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 If it was any other team (besides Buffalo) who traded up for Watkins, media & experts would be loving the move AND overall draft.
Iowabillsfan4life Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I didnt like it when it happened but now that it has sunk in I actually love the move. If Watkins is indeed the true elite probowl hall of fame WR he's said to be then that is well worth the cost, even if he turns out as an above average #1 WR it's still a win as later drafted WRs all are what we have allready top end #2 receivers. I can care less what the media says about the cost. Same as the draft grades, if we get 4 immediate starters and 1 or 2 ST guys out of this years draft then it's been a huge success, and this draft has that potential. In my opinion as much as he is scouted elite talent he is also a Bills fan first and foremost. Russ and Whaley has stated he wants players that want to be here. Look at Byrd and the problems. He wanted where the money is. Sammy will want paid after his rookie contract but I believe he will take less money to help make his team better. Finally we have a player that will stay in Buffalo no matter what. Great Move BUFFALO.
yungmack Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 IMO you are looking at it backwards. There is very little risk associated with Watkins. He is the top WR prospect in 5 years with an extremely high floor and ceiling. He is one of the safest picks in the draft in years. The risk is EJ. If he doesn't develop this talented team will not be in position to land a franchise QB. I agree that the question mark is EJ (and for that matter, all QBs) but could you explain why exactly won't they be in a position to land a franchise QB should EJ flop? Your position seems a tad all or nothing about the vaunted "First round pick."
Kirby Jackson Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) I agree that the question mark is EJ (and for that matter, all QBs) but could you explain why exactly won't they be in a position to land a franchise QB should EJ flop? Your position seems a tad all or nothing about the vaunted "First round pick." If you look around the league by my calculation 22 of the 32 QBs starting will be 1st rounders. There are a few more that are early 2nds (Dalton, Kaepernick, Brees). While everyone loves to point to Brady being a 6th rounder or Wilson in the 3rd, the reality is that it is very difficult to find a starting QB in the mid 2nd round or later. Yes, you can always trade back up but you will not trade the assets to land Mariota, Hundley or Winston (if they remain the top candidates). IMO this team wants to win now and if EJ doesn't work out it will be a veteran that they will be chasing. Some names that I threw out in another thread to look out for: Cutler, Romo, Roethlisberger, Bradford, Rivers, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan and even Foles (Chip Kelly is nuts). Some are more realistic than others (Bradford, Smith, Cutler or Romo seem to be the most plausible). Edited May 13, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
bbb Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I agree that the question mark is EJ (and for that matter, all QBs) but could you explain why exactly won't they be in a position to land a franchise QB should EJ flop? Your position seems a tad all or nothing about the vaunted "First round pick." 4 of the top 5, 9 of the top 12, and 12 of the top 16 QBs are first round picks. Where do plan on getting a QB if EJ lays an egg this year? We're getting killed by the national media and it's not bias, it's true - this was stupid. I really hope I eat crow. If you look around the league by my calculation 22 of the 32 QBs starting will be 1st rounders. There are a few more that are early 2nds (Dalton, Kaepernick, Brees). While everyone loves to point to Brady being a 6th rounder or Wilson in the 3rd, the reality is that it is very difficult to find a starting QB in the mid 2nd round or later. Yes, you can always trade back up but you will not trade the assets to land Mariota, Hundley or Winston (if they remain the top candidates). IMO this team wants to win now and if EJ doesn't work out it will be a veteran that they will be chasing. Some names that I threw out in another thread to look out for: Cutler, Romo, Roethlisberger, Bradford, Rivers, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan and even Foles (Chip Kelly is nuts). Some are more realistic than others (Bradford, Smith, Cutler or Romo seem to be the most plausible). You posted at the same time and we said the same thing. BTW, I count Brees as a first rounder since he was the #32 pick.
Rocky Landing Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 IMO you are looking at it backwards. There is very little risk associated with Watkins. He is the top WR prospect in 5 years with an extremely high floor and ceiling. He is one of the safest picks in the draft in years. The risk is EJ. If he doesn't develop this talented team will not be in position to land a franchise QB. I think you are looking at it too narrowly. Speaking in terms of the thread subject, the value of Watkins should not just be confined simply to his ability, but to the impact he has on the team, and its overall value thereof. Suffice to say, if he's all he's cracked up to be, Watkins could probably make a play if Kevin Kolb were throwing to him from his hospital bed. But, would that get us to the playoffs? Not likely. Like it, or not, Watkins' effectiveness, like ALL receivers, will be inextricably linked to the person throwing to him. The debate here isn't whether or not we have drafted an elite player, but whether the value of his addition will equal, or exceed the price we paid for him. And, the tricky part is: if EJ is not up to the task, we have undermined Watkins' elitism for next season, as well as this one.
Nanker Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Let me say this about the mega-minds in the "media". If Watkins were openly gay, every one of those bastages would absolutely LOVE the pick and would openly question why Texas, St Louie, and Jax didn't pick him and for heaven's sake why the hell did the Brownies trade down for less than what he was worth. The media are whores, plain and simple. They don't earn their pay by stocking players on any team, they earn their keep by shilling for teams, coaches, and players. They feed fan's obsession for knowledge about players, but they're amongst some of the least knowledgable people on the planet when it comes to football acumen and how to build a team. Edited May 13, 2014 by Nanker
Kirby Jackson Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I think you are looking at it too narrowly. Speaking in terms of the thread subject, the value of Watkins should not just be confined simply to his ability, but to the impact he has on the team, and its overall value thereof. Suffice to say, if he's all he's cracked up to be, Watkins could probably make a play if Kevin Kolb were throwing to him from his hospital bed. But, would that get us to the playoffs? Not likely. Like it, or not, Watkins' effectiveness, like ALL receivers, will be inextricably linked to the person throwing to him. The debate here isn't whether or not we have drafted an elite player, but whether the value of his addition will equal, or exceed the price we paid for him. And, the tricky part is: if EJ is not up to the task, we have undermined Watkins' elitism for next season, as well as this one. Having seen a lot of Watkins that is the exact reason that I like him. He is not a guy that you need to throw a perfect ball 50 yards down the field to be effective. He does a lot of his damage on screens, jet sweeps and short slants. His game is like that of a big bodied Percy Harvin. They will use him like Welker was used in NE & Denver except Watkins is 1,000 times more advanced after the ball is in his hands.
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 If you look around the league by my calculation 22 of the 32 QBs starting will be 1st rounders. There are a few more that are early 2nds (Dalton, Kaepernick, Brees). While everyone loves to point to Brady being a 6th rounder or Wilson in the 3rd, the reality is that it is very difficult to find a starting QB in the mid 2nd round or later. Yes, you can always trade back up but you will not trade the assets to land Mariota, Hundley or Winston (if they remain the top candidates). IMO this team wants to win now and if EJ doesn't work out it will be a veteran that they will be chasing. Some names that I threw out in another thread to look out for: Cutler, Romo, Roethlisberger, Bradford, Rivers, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan and even Foles (Chip Kelly is nuts). Some are more realistic than others (Bradford, Smith, Cutler or Romo seem to be the most plausible). But you are forgetting that this was an all-in move by the Bills so if EJ fails, Sammy Watkins, no matter how good he is, can no longer be on the roster and the next QB they bring in won't be able to throw to him. I think I heard that somewhere.
Rocky Landing Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Let me say this about the mega-minds in the "media". If Watkins were openly gay, every one of those bastages would absolutely LOVE the pick and would openly question why Texas, St Kenny GzuitonLouie, and Jax didn't pick him and for heaven's sake why the hell did the Brownies trade down for less than what he was worth. The media are whores, plain and simple. They don't earn their pay by stocking players on any team, they earn their keep by shilling for teams, coaches, and players. They feed fan's obsession for knowledge about players, but they're amongst some of the least knowledgable people on the planet when it comes to football acumen and how to build a team. As a professional set-lighting technician in Los Angeles, I will take exception to your overgeneralization of the media. In fact, I've actually worked quite a bit for Fox Sports. The media are certainly whores, in that they sell themselves for money, but doesn't that just make them another business? Whores are just trying to make a living like everybody else. And, it's not entirely accurate to say, "they earn their keep by shilling for teams, coaches, and players." They're simply selling stories and opinions. The more interesting, compelling, (and yes, accurate), those stories are, the more people will watch/listen-to/read them, and the more they will be worth. They're not shilling for teams, players, and coaches. They're shilling for Coors, Budweiser, Old Spice, and, now with the newer LGBT-friendly NFL, maybe some nice designer fashions. But, don't think for a moment that these sports-media whores don't take the accuracy of their reporting seriously.
yungmack Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 4 of the top 5, 9 of the top 12, and 12 of the top 16 QBs are first round picks. Where do plan on getting a QB if EJ lays an egg this year? We're getting killed by the national media and it's not bias, it's true - this was stupid. I really hope I eat crow. First of all, I don't think EJ will flop so this is really a moot question to me. But let's say he does flop, or gets seriously injured or is caught in flagrante delicto with a dead sheep, what would prohibit the Bills from packaging a couple of picks to move into the first, or to trade for a QB or to sign one who's on the free agent market? Yes, a high number of starting QBs are first rounders but not all of them are franchise QBs. And there are far more first round QB picks who've flopped than are stars at the position. Having a first round pick is no guarantee you'll select a franchise QB.
Never NEVER Give-up Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 In the 2011 Draft, the Falcons traded their 2011 1st round pick and 4th round pick plus their 2012 1st and 4th round picks for the right to draft Julio Jones. Most thought they gave up too much then. At the time, Jason Kirk of SBNation wrote: Mel Kiper has published his 2011 NFL Draft grades, and let's just say he's not in love with the Atlanta Falcons' trade for Julio Jones -- the team gets a C+, better than just four franchises. While he likes Jacquizz Rodgers and Akeem Dent in Atlanta's systems, he worries about Jones' durability and the "extraordinary value" the Falcons gave up in acquiring him: "Let's face it, the Falcons are counting on Jones to be really good, really soon. They gave a boatload of high-value picks for him, and you get a sense that this a team that really views the immediate future as a title window it needs to pursue." The only teams graded worse than Atlanta: the Tennessee Titans, Carolina Panthers, Jacksonville Jaguars and Seattle Seahawks. The five best? The Detroit Lions, Cincinnati Bengals, San Diego Chargers, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Cleveland Browns. Ranking near the bottom of the upper half is the other NFC South squad: the New Orleans Saints. Sounds just like the song he's singing this year.
K-9 Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Why? Colt Lyerla was probably better than Ebron talent wise but was a UFA because of off the field issues and acting reprehensibly on social media... Players fall a long way regardless of talent if you are an idiot Lyerla at least demonstrated his ability in college. Henderson, for all his hype coming out of high school, did no such thing. To rate him ahead of Robinson and Lewan tells me all I need to know about this "former NFL scout." GO BILLS!!!
jahbonas Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 4 of the top 5, 9 of the top 12, and 12 of the top 16 QBs are first round picks. Where do plan on getting a QB if EJ lays an egg this year? We're getting killed by the national media and it's not bias, it's true - this was stupid. I really hope I eat crow. You posted at the same time and we said the same thing. BTW, I count Brees as a first rounder since he was the #32 pick. Payton Manning and Drew Brees were NOT acquired by their current teams via the draft - circumstances led these veterans to free agency where they signed - BINGO. Similar events might free up a Big Ben or a Sam Bradford etcccc next year Neither the Saints nor the Broncos used a top draft choice to get their QB - they got them by signing on the free agent market. Kurt Warner went to the Cardinals in the same way. Brady - 6th rd pick Brees - free agency Manning - Free Agency Rogers - 20+ pick in rd1 Koepernick - 2nd rd Wislon - 3rd rd
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