K-9 Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 ...That remains to be seen. I hope you are right. It remains to be seen in the NFL, yes. But on the college level, there is absolutely no question Watkins is far better based on their college careers alone. Beckham is talented, but he was never considered the generational talent that Watkins is. GO BILLS!!!
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Most talking heads barely realize buffalo even has a team. They do so little show prep and research because we are irrelevant on the national stage until we start winning. I cant say im surprised that most national media are mocking us over this. They also probably dont realize how a few seemingly insignificant plays last year resulted in us not finishing 9-7 but last place in the AFCE again. They probably dont realize we have significantly upgraded our run D which was a major flaw last year. Or that we probably won't have to start an undrafted rookie qb against a winnable team. Blah blah blah Edited May 13, 2014 by drinkTHEkoolaid
Kirby Jackson Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 It should reflect on this years grade because this is the year they mortgaged next year's pick. And you hit on one reason why giving up next years first caused a downgrade, if the Bills do decide they need a QB, they have no first round pick next year to try and get one. The Bills really did go all in with Manuel just like they said they were. Bills fans may like that, but more neutral observers are likely to see it as taking a big risk for a WR. IMO you are looking at it backwards. There is very little risk associated with Watkins. He is the top WR prospect in 5 years with an extremely high floor and ceiling. He is one of the safest picks in the draft in years. The risk is EJ. If he doesn't develop this talented team will not be in position to land a franchise QB.
first_and_ten Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 And the sad thing is local media is whining as well. We gave up two #1 picks for a guy that most likely (according to EVERY 'expert') will become an elite player. OK, can we get it right?? The Bills gave up ONE #1 pick..NOT TWO !!!!
CodeMonkey Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 IMO you are looking at it backwards. There is very little risk associated with Watkins. He is the top WR prospect in 5 years with an extremely high floor and ceiling. He is one of the safest picks in the draft in years. The risk is EJ. If he doesn't develop this talented team will not be in position to land a franchise QB. I think we actually see it the same way. Watkins is about a low risk as they come in my opinion. But they gave up the first round pick next year so the Bills are gambling heavily that Manuel will be a viable QB going forward. So yes, EJ is the risk. But they took that risk for a WR (Watkins).
jahbonas Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Even locally it happens. Nobody repeated more often that the Bills gave up too much and sacrificed the future of the franchise more than John Murphy when we did the Cornelius Bennet trade. Up until that trade in 1987 we had been to zero superbowls, won 1 division championship in prior 21 years, missed the playoffs 18 of the prior 21 years. After the trade we made the playoffs 11 of the next 12 years etc etc etc....
CodeMonkey Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 OK, can we get it right?? The Bills gave up ONE #1 pick..NOT TWO !!!! Yikes how many posts for the same thing. Yes they gave up next years #1 so they gave up one additional #1 pick, correct. But in addition to next years #1, they used this years #1 as well. 1+1=2. That's their basis for saying 2 picks. Simple semantics people.
Campy Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Explain then the Browns narrative - or did they recently win a Superbowl? I'd say that particular narrative has a lot more to do with the player than the team.
theesir Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I love the Sammy pic, I however wonder if we didn't get duped on the compensation for the pick. I saw reports yesterday that Atlanta was going to give a 3rd round pick to Jacksonville to move from 6 to 3, but Jacksonville, who was ready to make the deal, bailed in fear that someone else would reach up and grab Bortles before they got a chance. You can say Watkins was the best player in the draft, but we still took him at 4 and gave up WAY more than Atlanta was giving up to move above that. I think Whaley made a desperate move and got taken a bit. Now I just hope to hell Sammy is so good that next year we don't care.
Doc Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 It should reflect on this years grade because this is the year they mortgaged next year's pick. And you hit on one reason why giving up next years first caused a downgrade, if the Bills do decide they need a QB, they have no first round pick next year to try and get one. The Bills really did go all in with Manuel just like they said they were. Bills fans may like that, but more neutral observers are likely to see it as taking a big risk for a WR. So because the Bills might need a QB next year, the grade for this year's draft should be downgraded? Again I think that's silly. But so too are immediate draft grades. What I'm more concerned about is whether they addressed needs, and they did.
jahbonas Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I think we actually see it the same way. Watkins is about a low risk as they come in my opinion. But they gave up the first round pick next year so the Bills are gambling heavily that Manuel will be a viable QB going forward. So yes, EJ is the risk. But they took that risk for a WR (Watkins). Why do you assume the ONLY way to bring a quality QB to the Bills next year would be via the draft? Even a similar record would yield us near 10th pick overall - gonna select Andrew Luck with that? There are TWO streams od adding talent each year - free agency and the draft. Next year we dont have a #1 but we will have free $55 million to obtain a veteran if need be. And a talent like Watkins helps attract a talent. Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner a few examples.....
BringBackFergy Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 The most irritating thing is when I see media or posters incorrectly state we gave up 2 first round picks. We only lost ONE first round pick in the trade up. We traded 2 and got back one first rounder. 2-1 = 1 and for the life of me I can not figure out why that math equation is difficult for the media and posters on this board to grasp. Once again, the ONLY cost associated with getting in position to get Watkins was the additional picks. Thank you.
Dorkington Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 I give the Watkins pick a C, personally. The rest of the draft is solidly in the B to A area. Why do I give Watkins a C? Not because of the player, but because of what we have around the player. We have an organization that historically gets it wrong, which doesn't help when we have questions at HC/OC and at QB. When you're looking at a WRs development, the play calls and the guy throwing to you are very important. Since those are generally question marks going into the pick, and we had SJ13 (arguably, a solid WR), picked up Williams, and have two promising guys last year... in many ways, Watkins didn't fill a "real" need. The "real" receiving need was a big "always open" guy for EJ to use as a safety valve. That all being said, Watkins looks to be great. So my C is not anything against him. It's just what he's going into that dulls things. It's a huge risk move, with a lot of questions, and so in the end, it gets a C, since it's not guaranteed (as much as one can guarantee) success, and it's not guaranteed failure. The rest of the picks all filled needs, other than the ILB, but one could argue we need depth there since we only have Spikes for a year. So that's all in the B-A range.
first_and_ten Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Yikes how many posts for the same thing. Yes they gave up next years #1 so they gave up one additional #1 pick, correct. But in addition to next years #1, they used this years #1 as well. 1+1=2. That's their basis for saying 2 picks. Simple semantics people. No, 1 +1 -1 = 1...they gave up one #1 pick...they gave #9 and got #4.....that means they gave one #1, next years..what is so complicated about this??? So to say they gave up two is incorrect.
BringBackFergy Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Yikes how many posts for the same thing. Yes they gave up next years #1 so they gave up one additional #1 pick, correct. But in addition to next years #1, they used this years #1 as well. 1+1=2. That's their basis for saying 2 picks. Simple semantics people. It's an important issue (IMO) - you don't want people to think we got bent over backwards by the Browns - so the negative report is "we gave up two 1st round picks" or "we lost two 1st round picks" whereas the positive way of looking at it is "we used two 1st round picks on Sammy Watkins" (we used this year's pick to actually draft him (which we would have used to draft Matthews, Beckham, Ebron, etc) and gave up next year's 1st round pick for the right to draft him). So we really only lost/gave up ONE 1st round pick.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Why do you assume the ONLY way to bring a quality QB to the Bills next year would be via the draft? Even a similar record would yield us near 10th pick overall - gonna select Andrew Luck with that? There are TWO streams od adding talent each year - free agency and the draft. Next year we dont have a #1 but we will have free $55 million to obtain a veteran if need be. And a talent like Watkins helps attract a talent. Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner a few examples..... I think that if EJ doesn't work out this team will be bringing in a veteran (trying anyways). They are in win now mode. A few names to look out for: Romo, Cutler, Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford and maybe even Nick Foles (Chip Kelly is nuts). It will be someone that has had some success in the league.
Dean Cain Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Mike Williams, Maybin, Losman, are all reasons why the trade was worth the risk. This is before adding in guys like Lee Evans, Whitner, McGahee, & Lynch. Hopefully Gilmore, Dareus, Manuel, Spiller & Watkins can form the nuclei of a great team in 2014. Edited May 13, 2014 by Dean Cain
The Big Cat Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 We'll forget all about next year's pick the moment we see Sammy Watkins violently snatch a ball 12 feet out of the air then fall backward into the endzone.
jimmy10 Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Explain then the Browns narrative - or did they recently win a Superbowl? For the Browns it's not about the Browns' narrative, it's about the Manziel narrative. No matter who picked him, they were going to get oodles of attention and love. Because it's the easy, lazy story to write that will garner the most eyeballs for the least effort. And does anybody really think the Browns are in good shape? They lost their star receiver for a year (after sitting on the information for two weeks - conveniently waiting until after they sold 2,000 season tickets). And we all read the alleged scouting report on Manziel.
All_Pro_Bills Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) And the sad thing is local media is whining as well. We gave up two #1 picks for a guy that most likely (according to EVERY 'expert') will become an elite player. But Buffalo gave up too much? What is an elite player that other teams must game plan for worth? I don't remember anywhere near the angst from NFLN, ESPN Etal. about the Julio Jones trade and they gave up essentially THREE #1's a #2 etc. But why is this? Because its BUFFALO! All of a sudden this 'elite' player who many teams had #1 Overall on their board 'must work out to justify the cost'? Um this is the same guy you guys were touting as either the top guy or top 2 in your analysis and mock drafts right? The same guy who the experts said would be an elite WR, that would excel in the NFL, a 'No miss prospect'? But all of a sudden he must work out? Typical Bull **** bias toward the Bills and it has been glaring from that pick through now when the media and some fans are still whining about it. Sometimes you just have to pull the trigger. Who knows who we get next year and honestly I dont give a damn about the 2015 draft at all. I want to win NOW. I want to see significant progress NOW. And if whaley is good he will keep the quality talent he knows can fit our system and win (within reason...) and he can find talent in the 2nd round on next year. If we have a playoff team THIS year, adding to it in the future is much easier...the core of the playoff team is already in place! Look Whaley has put together a team that should gel pretty damn well before that really crappy December run. If we get a RT And Guard that start and kick ass, along with The running game improving and Watkins, Wood, Williams and Goodwin kicking ass along with FINALLY stopping the run much better than we did, then this team is light years ahead of even last year. And to me that means playoffs. Ill just say it right now, (and I get these are two if's) IF the team stays healthy, and IF the new guys Gel... We beat NE for the AFCE Title. Yes I said it, we will win the AFC East division title. Its on like a Mofo! +1 Whaley is in good company when it comes to bucking the consensus opinion of the experts. In 1985 I recall that Bill Walsh's judgment was questioned for trading up in the 1st round and taking a little known receiver from a small college named Jerry RIce from Mississippi Valley State. Walsh had no 1st rounder in the 1986 draft as a result of the trade. Edited May 13, 2014 by All_Pro_Bills
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