Batavia possible stadium site?

[MarkAF43]

Funny how people can only see things in a vacuum. Infrastructure is not an infinitely fixed liability.

 

Investment in a new stadium and shorting commercial/entertainment complexes gives the very reason to do something about it...

 

So what would be the plan and where's the money coming from? Are we going to build 4 lane bridges getting on and off the island? Are we somehow going to finish the Lasalle Expressway? I'm curious as to what you see as viable options to improve traffic flow if you put the stadium there.

[fakeeyed]

As a Batavian, there's enough pros to at least keep us in the conversation. Do I think it's far fetched? Very, but think about it.

• There's a ton of land here, right off the thruway, ripe for development. Stadium, convention center, retail; it's a blank canvas.
  
• A bunch of hotels are right off our thruway exit.
  
• Accommodating fans to the East is the way to best improve numbers. Batavia gets the team closer to Rochester and Syracuse - two markets with a ton of Bills fans - while still being close to Buffalo. We had season tickets while I lived in Rochester, and that's a drive I can't see most fair-weather fans making.
  
• Traffic patterns can be planned and developed for. Again, we're a blank canvas here.
  

Biggest thing I think is reaching East instead of pushing the team further West or North. We're already fans out this way, make it easier for us to get involved. Canada (for the most part) doesn't give a **** about the Bills. Stop trying to create a non-existent Canadian market when you already have a large one in upstate NY.

 

I do think a waterfront stadium could be beautiful and have a huge impact as a 'destination'..but you're adding drive-time for out-of-towners and NF is a shithole. What's the traffic going to be like with 65k people arriving/leaving the waterfront? or in and out of NF?

 

Also, they'll stick out the lease in Erie County and develop here until it's over. I'd have season tickets again in a heartbeat if they were in my backyard.

Edited May 13, 2014 by fakeeyed

[MarkAF43]

I'd have season tickets again in a heartbeat if they were in my backyard.

 

And where do you think that leaves the season ticket holders who currently have the team in their backyard? How many of them do you lose by telling them they now have to drive 40+ minutes to get to the game?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

So what would be the plan and where's the money coming from? Are we going to build 4 lane bridges getting on and off the island? Are we somehow going to finish the Lasalle Expressway? I'm curious as to what you see as viable options to improve traffic flow if you put the stadium there.

 

All good suggestions. I sure there are many others. It's not going to take trillions of dollars to upgrade capacity enough to rival Abbott road and 219...

[MarkAF43]

All good suggestions. I sure there are many others. It's not going to take trillions of dollars to upgrade capacity enough to rival Abbott road and 219...

 

You're right, it won't take trillions, but you just hit on part of it. Right now you have the 219, Abbott, Southwestern, Milestrip to route 5, can pick up the 190 not too far into the city, etc. Right now, outside of the GI bridge, what is there? Niagara Falls Blvd, or River road? not good at all.

[Homey D. Clown]

Absolutely Nothing? There is a lot of support for the claim. You may not agree but a new stadium at the falls has a number of supporting arguments from a lot of smart people.

 

I have yet to see any good arguments against other than the Erie county thing.

 

I'm not questioning the intelligence of those who support the NF idea, but that doesn't make those arguments good. There is nothing strong to support a Niagara Falls move, other than proximity to toronto. The access to that region is beyond terrible, the area is a wasteland where they would put the stadium, the dump would end up in every arial shot of the stadium, the roads, the interstates, the fact that all people from Erie County would have to traverse Grand Island..... yes, that hot mess... it's such a stupid concept, I honestly can't see how anyone with intelligence would support such a stupid location. So to blindly say there is a lot of support for the claim without citing such claims is disagreeing just to disagree.

 

I am a firm supporter of a Buffalo waterfront concept so that the stadium could force the city to improve the access, bringing in more opportunities fro business growth, and city revitalization. It's Buffalo's team and asset, and that's who deserves to benefit from it, and nobody else. I am flat out exhausted by all the opportunities to grow and evolve be stripped away from my home town for pedantic excuses and nonsensical reasons. Erie County has paid heavily to keep the team in WNY, and it's time that franchise starts paying back to the city that bears it's name, and has bled for it for over 50 years.

 

Kinda makes the Niagara falls debate really weak.

[fakeeyed]

 

And where do you think that leaves the season ticket holders who currently have the team in their backyard? How many of them do you lose by telling them they now have to drive 40+ minutes to get to the game?

 

You have to weigh that against how many you gain opening up a larger market.

[Webster Guy]

If they are moving to Batavia they might as well just stay in orchard park

If you were from Roch or Cuse you wouldn't make that statement.

Post game traffic is a huge hassle for us 20k fans east of Buff

[May Day 10]

I tend to avoid most Darien lake concerts because the drive and the traffic. It's just kind of a nightmare getting there and home

[thebandit27]

Buffalo to Batavia is 40 minutes on the Thruway BUT there is one small entrance/exit in/out of town. That would be a horrific scene on game day. So then you are talking adding thruway exits. There is also a toll. Adds a couple bucks and time to the drive. It's just a bad idea.

 

Nah...you can easily take 63 in/out of town from the east and either route 5 or 33 in/out of town from the west.

[Tsaikotic]

If you were from Roch or Cuse you wouldn't make that statement.

Post game traffic is a huge hassle for us 20k fans east of Buff

 

I think his quote was more on the fact that moving to Batavia would break the Erie County lease thus anywheres outside Erie County would be the same monetary hit to the new owner...if the new owner is gonna take the hit might as well go somewhere with bigger market..

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

I'm not questioning the intelligence of those who support the NF idea, but that doesn't make those arguments good. There is nothing strong to support a Niagara Falls move, other than proximity to toronto. The access to that region is beyond terrible, the area is a wasteland where they would put the stadium, the dump would end up in every arial shot of the stadium, the roads, the interstates, the fact that all people from Erie County would have to traverse Grand Island..... yes, that hot mess... it's such a stupid concept, I honestly can't see how anyone with intelligence would support such a stupid location. So to blindly say there is a lot of support for the claim without citing such claims is disagreeing just to disagree.

 

I am a firm supporter of a Buffalo waterfront concept so that the stadium could force the city to improve the access, bringing in more opportunities fro business growth, and city revitalization. It's Buffalo's team and asset, and that's who deserves to benefit from it, and nobody else. I am flat out exhausted by all the opportunities to grow and evolve be stripped away from my home town for pedantic excuses and nonsensical reasons. Erie County has paid heavily to keep the team in WNY, and it's time that franchise starts paying back to the city that bears it's name, and has bled for it for over 50 years.

 

Kinda makes the Niagara falls debate really weak.

 

Not aregueing to argue. Just thought the absolutely no reason statement was blatantly incorrect. But I can see you're back peddling so that's good.

 

There have been hundreds of posts explaining why NF is a good idea, but here is a quick summary.

 

1. National landmark presence a la 3 rivers stadium, candlestick, etc.

 

2. NF is a hole. The best way to revitalize a dump is drop a significant investment right in the middle of it. See philly, Baltimore, Yankees stadium, fed ex field... And and and

 

3. Every freaking MNF football game in buffalo ever, shows what? Why?

 

4, other investment dollars in the entertainment industry have trickled in this would open the flood gates.

 

5. Revenue for a downtrodden area beyond games. I know it hard to believe as a bills fans, but stadiums surrounded by other stuff in attractive locations grab other uses too.

 

6. Yes it is closer geographically and more so symbolically to the Canadian market which is 40% of the current day fan base and virtually all of the growth opportunity unless buffalo ever stop contracting like a dying star.

 

7. 142 acre develoment site next to Seneca casino.

 

sure there are flaws and disputes with all of these but the assertion there is absolutely no reason is so myopic and ignorant, I called it out.

 

And for every problem you want to pitch there is a solution if the stakeholders want it.

 

Add: Oh I almost forgot, if you want to see what kind of unintelligence surrounds this idea.... Go to google and type "Jim Kelly Niagara Falls stadium" enjoy the read.

Edited May 13, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood

[fakeeyed]

Can't speak for other stadiums, but Yankee Stadium is in the hood and hasn't revitalized that area at all. Walk a block from the stadium in any direction and you're in a poor neighborhood. Dumping a significant amount of money in a **** area is not guaranteed to do ANYTHING. Revitalization takes willing developers, the proper landscape and community support. Like was said before, how are people going to get on & off the island for games? Traffic will be an absolute nightmare.

 

And Canadians are 40% of the fan base? That's absolute horse ****. If they were, the Toronto series would have had more Bills fans than our average away games. With the exact same fan base as they have now, theoretically the team can make more money by making themselves more accessible to the fans they already have in Rochester and Syracuse. You don't have to convert people here, they'll come to games. Casual fans from markets East of Buffalo all of a sudden have a much smaller barrier between themselves and game day. The Rochester market is huge for the Bills, practices are jam packed at St. John Fisher. Development around a Batavia stadium is endless because there's nothing here! Nothing to knock down, nothing to repurpose. Built to suit, whatever investors want.

 

NF has very little argument in the way of being a viable stadium location.

[thewildrabbit]

Batavia would work perfectly for those of us here in the 'Cuse. As a matter of fact, if the stadium was in Batavia, all of the games would sell out. The populations of Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse would easily fill the stadium.

 

But Niagara Falls is the best spot for this team.

This~

[May Day 10]

Not aregueing to argue. Just thought the absolutely no reason statement was blatantly incorrect. But I can see you're back peddling so that's good.

 

There have been hundreds of posts explaining why NF is a good idea, but here is a quick summary.

 

sure there are flaws and disputes with all of these but the assertion there is absolutely no reason is so myopic and ignorant, I called it out.

 

And for every problem you want to pitch there is a solution if the stakeholders want it.

 

Add: Oh I almost forgot, if you want to see what kind of unintelligence surrounds this idea.... Go to google and type "Jim Kelly Niagara Falls stadium" enjoy the read.

 

1. National landmark presence a la 3 rivers stadium, candlestick, etc.

While it is nice to fantasize a picturesque stadium on the falls, I dont feel like it would accomplish anything except seal off the wonder. This is also why plopping a stadium on the Buffalo waterfront is also stupid. I dont believe people are going to gaze at the Falls all game. Also, how long until some drunk goes over the falls tailgating before/after a game?

 

2. NF is a hole. The best way to revitalize a dump is drop a significant investment right in the middle of it. See philly, Baltimore, Yankees stadium, fed ex field... And and and

Those places you listed have ballparks, and/or multiple stadiums where there can be/are >100 dates. Philly is a nice area in the immediate viscinity, but it is south of the thriving downtown area in an industrial part of town. Baltimore is still a hellhole. Plopping a football stadium for 8-10 dates a year will revitalize Niagara Falls as much as that Seneca Casino did. Is Orchard Park thriving? Will the Big Tree Inn relocate to Pine Avenue?

 

3. Every freaking MNF football game in buffalo ever, shows what? Why?

I cant figure out why this would play at all in a billion + dollar decision. So a TV network can walk from the stadium at some point to get stock footage to use for the next 5 years?

 

4, other investment dollars in the entertainment industry have trickled in this would open the flood gates.

Flood gates of what? They cant even build a hot dog stand in Niagara Falls unless its connected to the Outlet Mall. Politicians and Unions have sucked the city dry and salted the earth. Ask Mark hammister about how incompetent and corrupt the politics are in trying to build anything.

 

5. Revenue for a downtrodden area beyond games. I know it hard to believe as a bills fans, but stadiums surrounded by other stuff in attractive locations grab other uses too.

I am hoping a new stadium if enclosed will capture more uses. Maybe some UB games, a Bowl Game, some Conventions, etc.... Niagara Falls is not an attractive location though. It is Chemical Plants, urban decay, and Landfills. The air stinks.

 

6. Yes it is closer geographically and more so symbolically to the Canadian market which is 40% of the current day fan base and virtually all of the growth opportunity unless buffalo ever stop contracting like a dying star.

This is somewhat valid (40%!?!?), but I do not think the extra distance once through customs has a major affect on whether canadians attend or not. While Canadian fans are important, Buffalo is trending the other way. The most important feature for many Canadians is the tailgate and the ability to binge drink.

 

7. 142 acre develoment site next to Seneca casino.

its not big enough to support the entire "campus" as Russ Brandon calls it. It is surrounded by immovable objects. There would have to be extensive demo, hazardous material handling/remediation to start. This Millstein guy also isnt going to give the land away to save the Bills. It will be at cost Im sure. There are also still independent property owners within that 142 acres who still refuse to sell.

 

 

 

Niagara Falls sounds nice, heck, I could probably ride a bike to games... but more than 30 seconds of thought should make one ponder a different location. Not saying its impossible, but requires a considerable amount of imagination to upgrade Sal Maglie Stadium to Lucas Oil Stadium in that climate. You got major traffic obstacles, you have to remember that area is tucked into a corner with natural borders.... I would almost think a more likely location would be up toward Wheatfield... but at that point, why? Also remember Niagara County has 200K compared to nearly 1 Million in Erie.

 

http://www.niagarafa.../MAY06/ten.html

 

There is an article discussing the possibility.

Edited May 13, 2014 by May Day 10

[MarkAF43]

Not aregueing to argue. Just thought the absolutely no reason statement was blatantly incorrect. But I can see you're back peddling so that's good.

 

There have been hundreds of posts explaining why NF is a good idea, but here is a quick summary.

 

1. National landmark presence a la 3 rivers stadium, candlestick, etc.

 

2. NF is a hole. The best way to revitalize a dump is drop a significant investment right in the middle of it. See philly, Baltimore, Yankees stadium, fed ex field... And and and--- Untrue- see last response from fakeeyed

 

3. Every freaking MNF football game in buffalo ever, shows what? Why?--- so what? they show a camera shot of a waterfall.

 

4, other investment dollars in the entertainment industry have trickled in this would open the flood gates.---- an assumption at best, not rooted in fact

 

5. Revenue for a downtrodden area beyond games. I know it hard to believe as a bills fans, but stadiums surrounded by other stuff in attractive locations grab other uses too. --- there is NOTHING in the falls

 

6. Yes it is closer geographically and more so symbolically to the Canadian market which is 40% of the current day fan base and virtually all of the growth opportunity unless buffalo ever stop contracting like a dying star.40%? no way

 

7. 142 acre develoment site next to Seneca casino.---- not in the greatest of areas. wouldn't feel safe walking down there

 

sure there are flaws and disputes with all of these but the assertion there is absolutely no reason is so myopic and ignorant, I called it out.

 

And for every problem you want to pitch there is a solution if the stakeholders want it.

 

Add: Oh I almost forgot, if you want to see what kind of unintelligence surrounds this idea.... Go to google and type "Jim Kelly Niagara Falls stadium" enjoy the read.

[jimmy10]

I'd be for it. It would cut our trip from ROC in half!

[CodeMonkey]

I'd be for it. It would cut our trip from ROC in half!

In terms of distance yes. In terms of time, probably even more than that!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Well Jim Kelly must not have the bills best interest at heart then...

 

Batavia May as well be OP. If you want to see a move that offers the bills a future you need to think bigger

 

http://www.niagara-gazette.com/buffalo-bills/x712209418/Kelly-still-keen-on-Bills-stadium-in-the-Falls?mobRedir=false

 

http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/11/buffalo-bills-relocation-niagara-falls/

 

http://pro32.ap.org/article/apnewsbreak-niagara-falls-possible-home-bills

 

 

 

 

[section122]

I know I only have 2 measly season tickets, but if this ever happened, or a move to NF and I will be done with my season tickets. I will stay home and watch tv. I've driven to Batavia many times using the routes mentioned, and it's not a fun trip, now have 60-70K people leaving? no thanks.

 

Well if it happened I would pick my 5 back up. The drive would be so much more manageable. This move would certainly open the Syracuse market which has no current allegiance to an NFL team. This would be a great "get" for the Bills in terms of regionalization.

 

Batavia would work perfectly for those of us here in the 'Cuse. As a matter of fact, if the stadium was in Batavia, all of the games would sell out. The populations of Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse would easily fill the stadium.

 

But Niagara Falls is the best spot for this team.

 

Indeed. I live in Auburn and used to travel myself for 5 years. It got to be too much but a move to Batavia and I am back in.

 

As a Batavian, there's enough pros to at least keep us in the conversation. Do I think it's far fetched? Very, but think about it.

• There's a ton of land here, right off the thruway, ripe for development. Stadium, convention center, retail; it's a blank canvas.
  
• A bunch of hotels are right off our thruway exit.
  
• Accommodating fans to the East is the way to best improve numbers. Batavia gets the team closer to Rochester and Syracuse - two markets with a ton of Bills fans - while still being close to Buffalo. We had season tickets while I lived in Rochester, and that's a drive I can't see most fair-weather fans making.
  
• Traffic patterns can be planned and developed for. Again, we're a blank canvas here.
  

Biggest thing I think is reaching East instead of pushing the team further West or North. We're already fans out this way, make it easier for us to get involved. Canada (for the most part) doesn't give a **** about the Bills. Stop trying to create a non-existent Canadian market when you already have a large one in upstate NY.

 

I do think a waterfront stadium could be beautiful and have a huge impact as a 'destination'..but you're adding drive-time for out-of-towners and NF is a shithole. What's the traffic going to be like with 65k people arriving/leaving the waterfront? or in and out of NF?

 

Also, they'll stick out the lease in Erie County and develop here until it's over. I'd have season tickets again in a heartbeat if they were in my backyard.

 

I agree that is far fetched but so to me is NF. I know aesthetically it would be great but for many of the reasons stated here I don't think it is a great idea.

 

I think his quote was more on the fact that moving to Batavia would break the Erie County lease thus anywheres outside Erie County would be the same monetary hit to the new owner...if the new owner is gonna take the hit might as well go somewhere with bigger market..

With all of the developing that would have to happen the new owner could wait until the 7th year and pay less than 30 million or go all 10 years and get out of it for free. The new owner is going to have the County by the b**ls in the next negotiation.