Ice bowl 67 Posted May 12, 2014 Author Posted May 12, 2014 Only if were on a bye week but we cant be that generous lol.
Direhard Fan Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Good topic but I think we are forgetting that we had a good core team last year and new managers. This will be a new team with a few new guys. I think we are seasoned and will surprise a large number of people. We have added speed, weight and good heads[ Henderson maybe not so much]. Smart guys as a whole. I expect great things this year.
nucci Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 All around, I'd say it was "risky". A bunch of guys that have a lot of talent and potential, but also a reasonably good chance of flaming out. If Watkins turns out to be elite, and they hit on a couple others (especially on the OL), then it will have been a very good draft. Big "ifs", though. Isn't that most players? They all have potential, that's why they're chosen.
jumbalaya Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Positives: We got a potentially elite player in the form of Sammy Watkins We eliminated 1 - 2 holes on the OL by filling them with solid or good football players. We added talent or depth at several other positions Negatives: If Manuel isn't the answer--which is likely enough--replacing him will be more difficult. The Bills no longer have a first round pick in next year's draft. The presence of Watkins could create the illusion Manuel is better than he is. If the Bills' existing roster was combined with a QB like Aaron Rodgers, I'd feel ecstatic about the future! Are there weaknesses other than QB? Absolutely. TE is a weakness. LG is a weakness, unless our fifth round pick turns out to be the answer. But if we had a real quarterback, then the combination of QB + the significant amount of non-QB talent we do have would make this team a serious threat. A very serious threat! "The presence of Watkins could create the illusion Manuel is better than he is." What a backhanded statement that is. Did Jerry Rice give the illusion that Montana and Young were better than they really were? If Manuel performs better because he has Watkins to throw to what difference does it make?
jumbalaya Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) Positives of the draft: 1. Management is not afraid of taking chances and making things happen. (Watkins) 2. Management is patient when they have to be...waiting a year to make the Brown trade happen. 3. Management will move a popular player (S Johnson) when the results and / or attitude don't fit the chemistry they are trying to build. 4. It is clear that Management has a plan, big run oriented Oline (White, Mt Kilimanjaro, Richardson, Henderson) are all very good run blockers, very fast receivers (Watson, Graham, Goodwin) and backs (Brown & Spiller). 5. Management plans for the future, Searcy, Meeks, or Williams to replace Byrd; Dixon and Brown to replace Freddy and Spiller if they can't re-sign them. 6. Management will gamble. They are all in on EJ and Thad at back-up. They won't break the bank for Byrd if the $$ don't fit the position. 7. They believe in ST Coach Crossman which I think is a huge mistake. He has no excuses this year. If the ST squad isn't top 16 at the Bye I hope they sh1t-can him. 8. They believe in OC Hatchett which I also think is a mistake. He also has no excuses this year. He and Marone had too many rookie errors last year, IMO. Getting rid of TJax early in the preseason being a huge mistake. Edited May 12, 2014 by jumbalaya
Orton's Arm Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 "The presence of Watkins could create the illusion Manuel is better than he is." What a backhanded statement that is. Did Jerry Rice give the illusion that Montana and Young were better than they really were? If Manuel performs better because he has Watkins to throw to what difference does it make? In Minnesota, the presence of Randy Moss created the illusion that Daunte Culpepper was better than he really was. That illusion caused the Vikings to extend the Culpepper experiment longer than they probably otherwise would have. After a while, the Dolphins had to decide whether to pursue Culpepper or Drew Brees. They chose Culpepper, and traded away a second round pick for him. After leaving Minnesota, Culpepper bounced around the league for a while. After leaving the Vikings, he never spent more than two years in any one spot. Things with the Dolphins didn't work out. Neither did things with the Raiders or Lions. He ended his career as a member of the Sacramento Mountain Lions; having reunited with his former head coach from Minnesota. Admittedly, players like Randy Moss don't come around very often. When they do, they're often united with top-tier QBs; such as the Jerry Rice/Joe Montana combination you mentioned. But if the presence of Randy Moss was sufficient to deceive both the Vikings and Dolphins about Culpepper, might the presence of Watkins be enough to deceive the Bills' front office about Manuel? Since Jim Kelly, the following QBs have been considered starters or potential starters for the Buffalo Bills: Todd Collins, Billy Joe Hobart, Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie, Drew Bledsoe, J.P. Losman, Kelly Holcomb, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, EJ Manuel. After seeing a list like that, I'm not exactly bursting with confidence that the Bills' front office is any better at evaluating QB talent than the Vikings or Dolphins had been back during the Culpepper situation. My lack of confidence has been reinforced by the fact that Manuel fits the profile for a standard-issue first round QB bust: great physical attributes, but lacking in the things you'd hope to see in a college pocket passer. Raw. A word like "raw" implies that, whatever a QB's flaws might be, they can be solved by throwing him on the grill and leaving him there for a sufficiently long time. But this is not the case. Most people--including most college QBs--lack the ability to become polished pocket passers at the NFL level. There's just too much information to be processed in too short a time. If a QB hasn't shown evidence of high information bandwidth at the college level--if he's not a "polished passer" in college--odds are very heavily against him ever becoming one in the NFL.
r00tabaga Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 B+ We obtained 3 players in Mayocks Top 100. Watkins (4), Kwonjou (24) and Brown (94). Baylor guard is a mauler with size. LT prospect Henderson for grooming and a DB I really like from Duke who did very well vs Jonny Football.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 I don't know any more than either of you, but Spikes has a better resume than Alan Branch and I think he signed a 1 year deal here basically as a tryout for other teams. Bills salary cap situation probably allowed them to offer the most money and starting potential. Right now he's on a 1 year contract, so it's better to have a plan in place if he's not here next year or doesn't perform. Cant disagree with that! Go Bills!
Rubes Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Isn't that most players? They all have potential, that's why they're chosen. Yes, but some obviously have a lot more talent and potential than others. For instance, Watkins has a lot more talent and potential than, say, TJ Graham. The point I was making is that we drafted guys with a lot of talent and potential, but who come with a lot of risk because of other issues. The 7th round OL guy is a good example of that.
TC in St. Louis Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 I thought our team had a phenomenal weekend. Well, it actually started with the trade for Mike Williams. Potential big time player. Then the draft itself.....loved all the wheeling and dealing. Love the OL picks. Cyrus is a monster. His knee injury was years ago, and he hasn't missed a game since he came back. Cyril was a unanimous first team All-American guard for the highest scoring team in the land. Santrell, though being a spleefhead, has first round talent. He knows this is his last chance, so hopefully he'll dial it down sufficiently to play professional football. Millions of dollars are at stake for him (should he dominate, his second contract will be huge). Watkins. Bryce, a 220 pounder who has 4.38 speed, and is only 23. The LB from Louisville may be a stud. The Duke guy has to be the smartest DB in the land, and was great for them. The other guy from Florida Atlantic? Who knows? There had to be a reason they drafted him. Great weekend.
Solomon Grundy Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 I loved it...big fat A from me. 1 - Watkins is the real deal, and after the Stevie trade, it actually was a fair price. 2 - We got big OL prospects with day 1 starting potential all over our line. Love who they got and the value they got. 3 - Like the DB and LB we picked up as well. Some are down on the Brown pick, but I actually like it. I was one of the few who loved the Kiko pick last year and told people he was going to surprise everyone and compete for DROY on draft night. Now, I don't see the same potential here with Brown in his rookie year, however, this kid is more than a backup to Spikes. He is a thumper and run stuffer, our biggest weakness on the D by a mile. He can play OLB or MLB...the issue is he will probably have to come off the field in clear passing situations, but he will be an asset on obvious running situations, especially in the red zone. Ross was a great value DB and we need more depth in the backfield. 4 - Trades: Whaley did an excellent job in trades. He got he player they coveted in Watkins, got back some of what we paid and maybe more if SJ hits his escalators (and I think he will) by moving SJ to Niners, and got extra picks in this deep draft which translated in OL steals in the 5th while still getting what is regarded as the best pure RT in this deep draft. We also got Bryce Brown from Eagles for a pick next year who was a better RB than any prospect in this draft IMO. He adds insurance for us next year given both RB's are in final year of their contracts and one is pretty old (Freddy) anyway. Brown will contribute right away and I think as season goes on he will get more carries than Fred in an effort to preserve Fred who has had trouble staying healthy last 3 years. So all in all, draft weekend was a huge success and I would give it an overall grade of "A" Great take Alpha! What's baffling to me is the reaction the Bills are getting from the "draft experts" for moving up to get Sammy Watkins. I heard Kiper say the Bills could've stayed where they were and taken Odell Beckham. Do he think Beckham is as good as Watkins?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Tell me what you thought of your draft. I wasn't too impressed with ours. We didn't go after the O line like I wanted. We need to address those positions. It's the "all in" draft. It's either going to be a stroke of genius or an over-exuberant sell out on for an inadequate signal caller. I've got my EJ jersey ready to go, so here is hoping for the best!
billsgpr88 Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 In Minnesota, the presence of Randy Moss created the illusion that Daunte Culpepper was better than he really was. That illusion caused the Vikings to extend the Culpepper experiment longer than they probably otherwise would have. After a while, the Dolphins had to decide whether to pursue Culpepper or Drew Brees. They chose Culpepper, and traded away a second round pick for him. After leaving Minnesota, Culpepper bounced around the league for a while. After leaving the Vikings, he never spent more than two years in any one spot. Things with the Dolphins didn't work out. Neither did things with the Raiders or Lions. He ended his career as a member of the Sacramento Mountain Lions; having reunited with his former head coach from Minnesota. Admittedly, players like Randy Moss don't come around very often. When they do, they're often united with top-tier QBs; such as the Jerry Rice/Joe Montana combination you mentioned. But if the presence of Randy Moss was sufficient to deceive both the Vikings and Dolphins about Culpepper, might the presence of Watkins be enough to deceive the Bills' front office about Manuel? Since Jim Kelly, the following QBs have been considered starters or potential starters for the Buffalo Bills: Todd Collins, Billy Joe Hobart, Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie, Drew Bledsoe, J.P. Losman, Kelly Holcomb, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, EJ Manuel. After seeing a list like that, I'm not exactly bursting with confidence that the Bills' front office is any better at evaluating QB talent than the Vikings or Dolphins had been back during the Culpepper situation. My lack of confidence has been reinforced by the fact that Manuel fits the profile for a standard-issue first round QB bust: great physical attributes, but lacking in the things you'd hope to see in a college pocket passer. Raw. A word like "raw" implies that, whatever a QB's flaws might be, they can be solved by throwing him on the grill and leaving him there for a sufficiently long time. But this is not the case. Most people--including most college QBs--lack the ability to become polished pocket passers at the NFL level. There's just too much information to be processed in too short a time. If a QB hasn't shown evidence of high information bandwidth at the college level--if he's not a "polished passer" in college--odds are very heavily against him ever becoming one in the NFL. Sadly, I completely agree with this. Manuel rarely goes through his progressions, and often stares down a receiver for what seems to be an eternity. If he doesn't change this (and unfortunately I don't think he will), he won't make it as a starting qb
eball Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Ice Bowl -- I liked the Bills draft. We don't know how the players will perform, obviously, but at least the risks the Bills took were based in sound strategy (as opposed to risky moves Tom Donahoe would make in an effort to make a "splash"). I see potentially three starters on opening day. Watkins, Kouandjio, and (less likely) Richardson. The OL will be monstrous, with some quality depth. Time for EJ to show us what he's got. I didn't really pay attention to the Packers' draft -- you weren't pleased?
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