RD1, Pick #4: WR Sammy Watkins - Clemson

[mob16151]

So you think we still have this year's first?

Alright,I'm gonna try. We all agree the Bills wanted to make a first round pick. However we wanted to pick at 4 instead of 8. So we said hey Cleveland lets swap. We'll give you a first and a fourth in 2015. Thus all we traded away was a first and a fourth. We SWAPPED first's in this draft,which is not the same as trading our first this year,away. Edited May 9, 2014 by mob16151

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

 

 

No but we got CLE's 1st. How is this so difficult to understand?? We got CLE's #4 and they got #9. So that's a wash. We are out a 2015 1st and 4th

It's not difficult to understand at all - - maybe it's just semantics. I would agree that "we are out a 2015 1st and 4th" IN ADDITION TO the pick that we actually used this year to draft Watkins. That makes the total investment in Watkins = 2 firsts and a fourth.

 

If there had been no trade, and Watkins somehow fell to us because nobody else picked him, our investment in Watkins would be one first.

 

Do you disagree with that?

[DallasMac]

No, I would say we used a first to get Watkins. We gave up a first next year and fourth next year to get the right to use this year's first on Watkins. That means we now have Watkins, but we no longer have this year's first, next year's first and next year's fourth.

 

Total investment in Watkins = 2 firsts and 1 fourth. Seriously, you can't see that?

I completely understand what you are saying. Its a difference of used versus gave up. We used a first to get Watkins but gave up a first and a fourth next year. It's just a difference of perception. No biggie. Have a great night man

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

 

I completely understand what you are saying. Its a difference of used versus gave up. We used a first to get Watkins but gave up a first and a fourth next year. It's just a difference of perception. No biggie. Have a great night man

Back at ya!

[Perk71]

It's not difficult to understand at all - - maybe it's just semantics. I would agree that "we are out a 2015 1st and 4th" IN ADDITION TO the pick that we actually used this year to draft Watkins. That makes the total investment in Watkins = 2 firsts and a fourth.

 

If there had been no trade, and Watkins somehow fell to us because nobody else picked him, our investment in Watkins would be one first.

 

Do you disagree with that?

 

I think it all has to do with the wording. You are 100% correct that they invested 2 first round picks and a forth for Watkins. It's just earlier in the thread it was stated by someone else that two first were traded, when it actually was this years firsts were swapped.

[smapdi]

It's not difficult to understand at all - - maybe it's just semantics. I would agree that "we are out a 2015 1st and 4th" IN ADDITION TO the pick that we actually used this year to draft Watkins. That makes the total investment in Watkins = 2 firsts and a fourth.

 

If there had been no trade, and Watkins somehow fell to us because nobody else picked him, our investment in Watkins would be one first.

 

Do you disagree with that?

 

My bad. I agree with that statement. It was a long 12 hours of work, lol.

 

I can't keep up with all 28 pages of this thread but some poster was making it out like we had to give up 2 1st round picks on top of the 1st we used to draft him. Maybe it was poor wording.

[Billsguy]

Yes, it is a bold move. Everybody in The Bills organization and much of the local media are praising the Bills for their "BOLD" move. However, is it a smart move? I don't think so.

First of all, I think Watkins could be a very good player. This is not a criticism of him. The Bills just simply paid too much!!!

 

The surrender of two 1st round picks and a 4th round pick for Watkins is just plain overpaying. Would you pay $400,000 for a $250,000 house? I wouldn't. What happens next year when the Bills finish let's say 8-8 in 2014-15 and their first pick in next years draft is #50. This is a very competitive league and next year all the Bills competitors will add top talent in the draft and the Bills will be waiting at OBD with no top pick. By this time next year, Russ Brandon and Doug Whaley will likely be long gone and will not have to answer for this deal.

 

If the Bills had a playoff team or even a near playoff team with a solid, established QB and one of the missing pieces was a top WR, then I would consider this trade and draft choice. However, this 6-10 team just paid for lobster tails with food stamps. It is a luxury they cannot afford!

 

The Bills would have been better off trading down to the middle of the round, draft a guy like OT Zack Martin to bolster a mediocre O-line, add another 2nd round pick and pick up 2 possible starters this year and still keep next year's 1st rounder.

 

Did the Bills suck last year because they didn't have receivers or was it because they didn't have adequate quarterbacking. I think QB was most of the problem and that situation hasn't changed.

 

The Bills went for the shiny hubcaps when they should have gone for the new transmission. Time will tell.

[TheBillsOrDie]

Does it take an old man like me to remember how many Bills 1st-rounders didn't work out? Terry Miller, Booker Moore, Perry Tuttle, Ronnie Harmon, James Williams, Mike Williams, and Tony Hunter, anyone?

 

Also, how many of you were naysayers in 1987 when we gave up two firsts and a second for Bennett? Our first pick in 1988, in the 2nd round? Some Thurman Thomas guy you may have heard of?

Thank You........ about time some one said it.

[smapdi]

Yes, it is a bold move. Everybody in The Bills organization and much of the local media are praising the Bills for their "BOLD" move. However, is it a smart move? I don't think so.

First of all, I think Watkins could be a very good player. This is not a criticism of him. The Bills just simply paid too much!!!

 

The surrender of two 1st round picks and a 4th round pick for Watkins is just plain overpaying. Would you pay $400,000 for a $250,000 house? I wouldn't. What happens next year when the Bills finish let's say 8-8 in 2014-15 and their first pick in next years draft is #50. This is a very competitive league and next year all the Bills competitors will add top talent in the draft and the Bills will be waiting at OBD with no top pick. By this time next year, Russ Brandon and Doug Whaley will likely be long gone and will not have to answer for this deal.

 

If the Bills had a playoff team or even a near playoff team with a solid, established QB and one of the missing pieces was a top WR, then I would consider this trade and draft choice. However, this 6-10 team just paid for lobster tails with food stamps. It is a luxury they cannot afford!

 

The Bills would have been better off trading down to the middle of the round, draft a guy like OT Zack Martin to bolster a mediocre O-line, add another 2nd round pick and pick up 2 possible starters this year and still keep next year's 1st rounder.

 

Did the Bills suck last year because they didn't have receivers or was it because they didn't have adequate quarterbacking. I think QB was most of the problem and that situation hasn't changed.

 

The Bills went for the shiny hubcaps when they should have gone for the new transmission. Time will tell.

 

 

I disagree. I have no problem giving up next year's 1st because it meant we get to keep our 2nd and 3rd picks this year, in a much deeper draft. I was against a trade up because I thought for certain it would cost us 41 and I did not want to give up that pick. We will get a very good player at 41; like 1st round talent in most other drafts.

 

By getting CLE to accept future picks, we get to continue to add talented players to this roster who will make an immediate impact. I don't know about you but I am sick of missing the playoffs. The players they get in the 2nd and 3rd will be big time contributors to this year's team. This staff has shown they can find studs in the 2nd:

 

Jairus Byrd

Kiko Alonso

Robert Woods

Andy Levitre

Aaron Williams

 

Just think, we got the best player in this draft in Watkins in the 1st; a player that most teams never have a chance to acquire and we still get to add a player the caliber of the guys listed above to this roster.

 

Zach Martin was the 4th rated OT; instead we got the #1 offensive prospect and can still add a OT nearly as talented in Martin on top of it at 41. Someone like Kouandjio, Cyrus, Richardson, Antonio, or Moses, Morgan. All 3 of those guys fit this team's philosophy of big, mauling offensive linemen.

 

Love it. The draft is so deep, even our 3rd round pick could turn out to be an immediate impact guy

Edited May 9, 2014 by smapdi

[12Kachy]

Introducing Buffalo Bills 2014 and 2015 first and 4th overall pick: Watkins. Great pick. Unforunatily I don't think he was worth three picks to get. Waley sealed his fate though, whether good or bad, the deal is done. I'm guessing he doesn't want to be part of the organization after next season.

[Hplarrm]

The issue is not simply whether 12 of the top 16 are 1st round picks in order to assess who the Bills chose in the draft, but a fuller more useful and accurate assessment is how many of these 12 were acquired by the teams which had these 12 last year through mechanisms other than the draft.

 

I have not looked t the entire list but Denver would have to acknowledge that they got their 1st rounder Manning through mechanisms other than the draft and NO would have to admit the reality they did not acquire Brees through drafting him. Thinking only of these two, your list is dropped to the virtually even 10 of 16 being first rounders drafted by the team they amassed great #s fer.

 

Arguing with my friends about this, I looked up nfl.com's QB power rankings. Counting Brees as a first rounder since he was pick 32, 4 of the top 5, 9 of the top 12, and 12 of the top 16 are first round picks.

 

So one round vs. the six other rounds and free agents. So probably 1 out of every 8-10 QBs signed are first rounders, but yet they make up 75% of the ones that you need in order to win.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

He is great player so that is a plus.

 

I don't think we are close to the playoffs so I wouldn't have done this, hopefully he makes EJ look better.

[OldNMBillsFan]

Best move by the Bills in years to get a dynamic playmaker. This is the type of player the Bills have been missing. All this talk of giving up too much is nonsense. I believe, he will prove the nay Sayers wrong. This is the most excited i have been about the Bills since 87. Many of the games last year were close and exciting to watch. They added, Spikes,Graham, Chris Williams, Mike Williams and Rivers in free agency. They drafted the highest rated WR in the draft while still retaining the 9th pick tomorrow. If EJ, Woods and Goodwin all improve in their secound year, this team is ready to get over the hump. Screw the 2015 draft, hell trade them all away and picks 3-7 in this years draft to get 3 picks in the second round tomorrow.

 

The time is now.

Go Bills

Edited May 9, 2014 by OldNMBillsFan

[Kelly the Dog]

If Manuel and Watkins pan out nobody will care. If one, or both, don't, it won't be good.

I don't understand the reasoning that if EJ plays well it is a good trade and if he doesn't it may not be. Yes, we lose our #1 next year but almost every high first round QB gets three years to prove if they are the man or not.

 

We likely aren't taking a QB high in the first round next year even if EJ tanks. There are a couple at the top but chances are, with this defense and this offense, it will not at all be an obvious choice whether he is "very" good or not.

 

But the bigger and more important point is, it's all about Sammy, not EJ. We have him for five and maybe six years. If he is a star player, and only a star player, it will be a good trade.

 

Stars are tough to find. If, after three years or four, regardless of whether EJ is our guy, Watkins is a stud/star, it will be a good trade. A championship team, in any year, in any sport, needs a couple stars at any position, and several very good players at various positions.

 

But to me, the essential element is, it's easier to find two very good players than it is to find one star player. I would trade two very good players for a star or stud any day. The Bills have one star now and that is Mario. Watkins is really a stud talent.

 

B

[machine gun kelly]

Introducing Buffalo Bills 2014 and 2015 first and 4th overall pick: Watkins. Great pick. Unforunatily I don't think he was worth three picks to get. Waley sealed his fate though, whether good or bad, the deal is done. I'm guessing he doesn't want to be part of the organization after next season.

 

This has been addressed at least 15 times on this thread. We didn't give up three picks. We swapped one and gave up two picks next year. Now per the stats only 11% of 4 th round picks start in the league. Look at our safeties, or even Bradham.

 

I say this was a good and bold move. I've watched Watkins in college living in the south and he is the next Percy Harvin. To swing at the fences for the best offensive player is a calculated risk. If we end up in a winning record, the 1st next year is worth it. There is a big drop off in talent in kostyra drafts after the first 6-7 picks. The reason the Patriots like to trade down is they know by pick 25-28, the best talent is gone so why not take advantage of desperate teams trying to trade up.

 

If he lives up to the hype, he can make an impact on this team's 28th passing game rating from last year.

[12Kachy]

MGK, I hope your right. I like the pick. I just think there are to many holes to fill on the roster to be throwing picks away. Really, we just gave the Browns a top 10 pick next year. They should have that one and a top 15 pick. Smart move by the Browns. This pick doesnt make the bills a contendor one bit. When they trade SJ, we lose the only reciever who has owned Revis as well. Who we have to face twice a year again. Manuel will still have a good possiblility to get hurt this year. The OL is not good. Without good protection, Manuel doesn't have the time to throw to Watkins, SJ or anyone. He will be running for his life. But I hope I am completely wrong and you are right.

[GripnRip]

Haven't posted on TBD for several years...though haven't missed a single game over that time. Having lost faith in the organization I disconnected myself a bit from the front office and really debating or analysing the merit of their actions

 

Also shortly before that time I moved to goergia for college, I now watch and attend more SEC/ACC football than I do NFL and I can tell you straight up Mr. Watkins is a special player. It wont matter who the QB or coach is, he will perform and produce. Mark it now, he IS the best Bills WR since Andre Reed and could be better with similar help.

 

Perhaps to help the above confusion with the idea of losing/gaining a first pick. From a business perspective, you look at it in the following way:

 

You enter the deal with (2) first and fourth round picks each between this year and next. You exit the deal with (1) first round pick and (1) fourth round pick between this year and next. You are giving up 2 picks total, which averages to 1 pick per year. I don't offer this as an argument for the watkins trade...when it comes to football I accept that I'm an idiot. This is is just the "business end" of the deal, for all the armchair GMs.

 

Anyways, I don't think EJ is "the guy" which makes losing next years first a truly gut wrenching gamble. I look at it this way, the rest of our team looks very good on both sides of the ball, when you compare it to rosters around the league it is without a doubt a playoff team with a big question mark at QB. I then ask myself what this offense would do with guys like Chad Henne, Matt Cassell, Kyle Orton, Alex Smith...again I think we make the playoffs. With all of that in mind, if EJ is not at least average, we can certainly improve the position without a first round pick. Not ideal, but at this point the deck is so stacked we are not living and dying with EJ anymore.

Edited May 9, 2014 by GripnRip

[Chandler#81]

Welcome back GripnRip! Naw, your math example is too over the head for the moron rodeo around here, but thanks for trying.. I thought I'd try to inflect what the likelihood of Whaley's continued dealing and adding/getting back one of the picks next year would do to the overall equation in the final analysis, but these yoyo's can't even add 2 + 2.. I couldn't agree with you more about the team-wide talent level EXCEPT at QB. It makes me very nervous.

[26CornerBlitz]

Bills Roundup: Sammy Watkins First Round Pick <4:53>

Chris Brown and John Murphy recap the Bills first round of the NFL Draft and their selection of Clemson wide receiver Sammy Watkins.

 

Russ Brandon: "We made a bold move" <8:30>

President & CEO Russ Brandon & General Manager Doug Whaley

 

Dabo Swinney: Watkins a low-maintenance superstar <8:33>

Clemson Tigers head coach Dabo Swinney talks with John Murphy about Sammy Watkins 'wow' factor and more.

Edited May 9, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[BreezeMafia]

Great move. When its all said and done, we will have not really given up as much as we think we did yesterday. Trading next year's 1 and 4 for the best playmaker in this years draft class................Great move. Hats off to Whaley on this.