NoSaint Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 And that poor decision by Donaho trading up for Losman only occurred because he refused to do so earlier .... If the future is 'now' thats the time to pull the trigger - a greater argument could be made that the Patriots for years have cost themselves superbowls by refusing to give Brady that 1 guy to put them over the top,,,, I've seen many a time a poster hit them for trading back from an elite talent to add 2 mediocre ones. Going up or down, it's all about talent evaluation and valuation of picks. Can't get emotional on either.
jahbonas Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 Polian put it very well one night. He said its true that people dont really understand the differences between guys who make it to the NFL and those that cant make it. He said however the far bigger misunderstanding is the difference between elite 1st team all-pro players who always command a double team and players who appear in a pro bowl. Its like playing defense with an extra man and if you get an opportunity for a special 1st team All pro player you take it
GG Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 And that poor decision by Donaho trading up for Losman only occurred because he refused to do so earlier .... If the future is 'now' thats the time to pull the trigger - a greater argument could be made that the Patriots for years have cost themselves superbowls by refusing to give Brady that 1 guy to put them over the top,,,, As per my usual disclaimer, TD didn't outright refuse to trade up, he couldn't find a willing partner to do it. There were plenty of rumors discussing Bills attempt to trade with Texans, but it didn't happen either the asking price was too high or because of Texans' insistence to hold firm and draft Dunta Robinson. If there's one truism of TD's tenure, it's that he wasn't gun shy in trying to land his QB of the future. Him not getting Ben was not for the lack of trying (unlike most of his successors)
dave mcbride Posted May 8, 2014 Author Posted May 8, 2014 As per my usual disclaimer, TD didn't outright refuse to trade up, he couldn't find a willing partner to do it. There were plenty of rumors discussing Bills attempt to trade with Texans, but it didn't happen either the asking price was too high or because of Texans' insistence to hold firm and draft Dunta Robinson. If there's one truism of TD's tenure, it's that he wasn't gun shy in trying to land his QB of the future. Him not getting Ben was not for the lack of trying (unlike most of his successors) That is true. He did try, or so we were told. I believe he did.
mannc Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 Polian put it very well one night. He said its true that people dont really understand the differences between guys who make it to the NFL and those that cant make it. He said however the far bigger misunderstanding is the difference between elite 1st team all-pro players who always command a double team and players who appear in a pro bowl. Its like playing defense with an extra man and if you get an opportunity for a special 1st team All pro player you take it Agreed, but the point of the article is that front offices don't "know" who the elite players will be--they just convince themselves that they know, and as the article points out, they are wrong as often as they are right. That's why smart (i.e. winning) teams trade down instead of up.
dave mcbride Posted May 8, 2014 Author Posted May 8, 2014 And that poor decision by Donaho trading up for Losman only occurred because he refused to do so earlier .... If the future is 'now' thats the time to pull the trigger - a greater argument could be made that the Patriots for years have cost themselves superbowls by refusing to give Brady that 1 guy to put them over the top,,,, I think that it's right to trade up in certain situations, but this article is about playing the percentages. Too many GMs think they're smarter than the house, and they're not. Also, the Pats did not cost themselves the SB by not going after a wideout. They went and got Randy Moss, who was historically great for them. They just lost to the Giants for other reasons (and don't forget that Moss was wide open on that bomb Brady missed with 20 seconds to go). Also, if Gronkowski isn't hurt in that second Giants SB, the Pats win that game. Agreed, but the point of the article is that front offices don't "know" who the elite players will be--they just convince themselves that they know, and as the article points out, they are wrong as often as they are right. That's why smart (i.e. winning) teams trade down instead of up. Yep.
Brandon Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 He didn't burn a second - that pick accelerated into the first round. We ended up losing a first and fifth only. Its all the same, though. The pick was used in order to draft Losman.
mannc Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 Furthermore the 1987 Cornelius Bennett trade was the ultimate 'trade up' in exchange for future draft choices - we had no 1st rd choice in 1988 or 1989 due to the trade. We only went on a string of Division Titles and Superbowl appearances and playoff appearances in 10 of the 11 following years. Polian realized he needed one more piece to put us over the top - the future was 'now' Technically, the Bills did not trade up for Bennett. The trade was made near the start of the season and the Bills traded future draft picks, which, because the Bills ended up winning a lot of games, turned out to be relatively low picks.
Big C Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 I don't think this team has "a ton" of holes.... And if they feel like one of the glaring ones can't be reliably filled at 9 AND at a reasonable price (something we've heard attached to many of the rumors) they can move up to get one of the only guys they believe in to fill that hole... Wouldn't be upset at all. I wasn't making a statement about our team specifically. I agree that if the price is right, we can afford to move up this year.
Brandon Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 BTW, would this be the time to also mention John McCargo?
dave mcbride Posted May 8, 2014 Author Posted May 8, 2014 Technically, the Bills did not trade up for Bennett. The trade was made near the start of the season and the Bills traded future draft picks, which, because the Bills ended up winning a lot of games, turned out to be relatively low picks. They were 7-8 in 1987, so the 1988 pick they ended up giving up was 14th overall. BTW, would this be the time to also mention John McCargo? Mentioned him earlier in the thread!
Dean Cain Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) I put the probability of the Bills trading back higher than us trading up. We traded back in 2013 to get EJ & a 2nd that yielded Kiko. If the Bills are sold on a guy like Odell Beckham Jr than I'm all for getting another 2nd round pick in a deep draft. Edited May 8, 2014 by Dean Cain
CountryCletus Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 I can't see how all the heavy predraft trade up talk ISN'T a smokescreen... I can't remember this much predraft talk about the Bills, EVER... I think it has EVERYTHING to do with the overhauled from office. I believe Doug Whaley is an incredibly smart and methodical man and that all this talk is in an effort to either devalue any trade up scenario (doubtful) or to force other teams to feel the need to trade up... Ideally, I think that our FO would prefer to trade back, pile up picks, and increase the skill across the board, rather than at one or two positions... We will see starting at 8 if I am right or wrong, but aside from Clowney's freakish ability, I don't see anyone worth trading up for that could immediately impact our roster at a position of need... Clowney's ability in the nfl is clearly debatable, but as Whaley said, it you are going to miss, there is no better DE to miss on than a 6'5", 270lb guy that runs a 4.4 40...
Recommended Posts