CodeMonkey Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) I think it is way to early for anyone to do anything but guess. But my guess is, if Manuel and Marrone have considerably better years than their rookie campaigns then the Bills stand a decent chance of hitting the elusive 8-8. If either of them do not significantly improve, it will be another very long season for the Bills Nation. Edited May 7, 2014 by CodeMonkey
BillsFanNC Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I voted for general pessimism, but I don't think that's really the right word anymore. When you're on a playoff drought like the Bills are realism would be a better word. I do believe that they are due to reach their typical sub .500 season in spectacular fashion though. Like winning the first 6 and losing the last 10 or losing the first 9 and winning 7 straight.
BigBuff423 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I didn't vote because I'm not "sure" the BILLS will finish below .500 this year...I don't know that they will have a winning record either...so I suppose I'm greatly "Undecided" about what their record will be. The schedule is not brutal but it is far from "easy".... With much of the QB discussion I thought I'd chime in on something I heard on Colin Cowherd's show yesterday. Colin quoted some research that was done from 2004 to 2013 that examined NFL teams and their Draft "efficiency", which I'm only guessing would be determined by the number of players Drafted that have had reasonable success (also debatable I suppose), and what the bottom 8 all had in common: incredible QBs. Some of the WORST Drafting teams in terms of efficiency were Pats, Green Bay, New Orleans, Denver, Indy, San Fran, and Chicago....and I don't remember the BEST Drafting teams in terms of efficiency but none of them made the playoffs and all of them were relatively mediocre to horrible...the BILLS made neither list, which tells me in terms of "DUH", what we already know and that is this team has been lackluster in so many ways and they've been neither good or terrible - overall - for the last 14 seasons and that they've had bad seasons, but in general they have just managed to be "average" or just "below average" since that time. And while I have a tendency to take the approach that says you build a "team" mentality and gather quality players at every position, I'm coming to the belief that given the current state of the BILLS roster, even without the Draft this weekend, if EJ proves to NOT be the absolute dominant QB this team needs, next year nothing, absolutely nothing, is more important to this Franchise than finding, Drafting and cultivating their bona-fide QB of the future, as in long-term 15 year future.....
FireChan Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) I would suggest to people, who have the ability, to go back and actually watch the games, instead of just recalling from memory how you think EJ played. Not to mention your emotions during the game cloud your judgement. It's exactly what I have started to do. So you pick 3 drives out of 12 drives the Bills had that day and say EJ was trying to "lose the game"? Brillant. I mean why wasn't it Dan Carpenters fault for missing that opening FG, which EJ drove the team down the field by finding a wide open Frank Summers for 34 yards? Lets not also forget the first TD drive was ALL Manuel, he took the offense 80 yards going 3/3 for 62 yards and ran for 8 more to get the ball to the 2 yard line. Let's also not forget he connected with Woods for the 2 point conversion. But yea sure, minimize his performance in that game. Two turnovers, both of which in our own redzone, before he could muster a clutch drive. A TD after either of those turnovers and the game is over. He had a good drive. But he got 3 chances to do it and blew 2 of them in the worst way. Edited May 7, 2014 by FireChan
Thunderstealer Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Synthetic weed... What's wrong with good old earth born weed? If Buffalo's under .500 it'll be because of EJ not seeing the defenses properly-- with a smidgen of bad defense due to a different coach every year.
Wayne Cubed Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Two turnovers, both of which in our own redzone, before he could muster a clutch drive. A TD after either of those turnovers and the game is over. He had a good drive. But he got 3 chances to do it and blew 2 of them in the worst way. So he gets no credit for actually tying the game up in the 3rd qtr? Without that drive, which I mentioned, the Bills wouldn't even be in the game at all.
FireChan Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 So he gets no credit for actually tying the game up in the 3rd qtr? Without that drive, which I mentioned, the Bills wouldn't even be in the game at all. Of course he gets credit! You're misunderstanding. The only thing I said was that while the Carolina game was good for EJ, we shouldn't bandy it about like he dominated, or looked great. He got the job done and that's awesome. But it wasn't a super performance. You must think Brady and Manning light it up on every play in every game. If they did they would be scoring 140 points a game, wouldn't they? The standards we hold Bills players to are absurd. Mainly, I think, because people compare EJ to Sportscenter highlights of other players. If all you see are the 50-yard TD passes you start thinking that's all they do. I think it's because an excellent game for EJ is 200 yards and 2 TD's, while an excellent game for some of the superstars is 350 yards, 3-4 TD's. I mean EJ threw 11 TD's this year in 10 games. Manning threw like 55 in 16. That's an apples to apples comparison, not a Sportscenter highlight.
Since 1972 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 This thread is frustrating. The bottom line from my perspective is there is not enough to make a decision on EJ. He played 10 games, was hurt three times, and missed as a rookie part of training camp. Now if he goes through OTA's, camp, and plays the season and still has erratic play with poor decisions, I'm happy to jump on the bandwagon next year for drafting a new QB. Now if he makes progress, shows improvement in his play, and starts taking a step forward, then I'd rather use top picks with surrounding him with talent. The beginning of this thread is pessimistic with asking why we'll fail. I'd rather see a thread of why we'll win. It's May so my belief is we go 9-7 to 10-6, against a tough schedule. We're not going to lose all of those games at the end of the year. If I were to take a gloom and doom attitude, why even watch the Bills? That's depressing. I say we have a heck of a draft, Kiko kills it on the weak side, Spikes hammers RB up the middle, especially against the Pats, Mario has a great season with edge penetration, and Kyle collapses the pocket. EJ with the time to develop, moves forward, has more weapons with whoever we draft, SJ comes back as he is healthy, and we get one to two decent linemen in the draft. How do you think the "gloom and doom attitude" was born?..when was the last non-depressing season the Bills had??
1B4IDie Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I hope so. I vowed in 2009 to never buy any Bills merchandise until the finish a season above .500. My stuff is wearing thin and I'd like to refresh. The minute they get to 9 wins I'll be on the buffalo Bills store. Website.
FireChan Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 The real answer is that we've heard every excuse and reason they'll be good already. Our players will improve, new coaches, new coordinators, new FA's, new rookies, new QB's, and nothing changes.
Beerball Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 How do you think the "gloom and doom attitude" was born?..when was the last non-depressing season the Bills had?? Everyone has a choice heading into a new season. Some decide that this will be the year that they turn it around, some decide it's just another year. Regardless, it is a choice.
BigBuff423 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Of course he gets credit! You're misunderstanding. The only thing I said was that while the Carolina game was good for EJ, we shouldn't bandy it about like he dominated, or looked great. He got the job done and that's awesome. But it wasn't a super performance. I think it's because an excellent game for EJ is 200 yards and 2 TD's, while an excellent game for some of the superstars is 350 yards, 3-4 TD's. I mean EJ threw 11 TD's this year in 10 games. Manning threw like 55 in 16. That's an apples to apples comparison, not a Sportscenter highlight. Soooooo, I don't want to jump all over your argument here, but did you just compare Buffalo's Offense to Denver's Offense and assume the only difference was the Quarterback??? If so....I'm at a loss for words....if it was something else, please explain...I'm intrigued.
FireChan Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Soooooo, I don't want to jump all over your argument here, but did you just compare Buffalo's Offense to Denver's Offense and assume the only difference was the Quarterback??? If so....I'm at a loss for words....if it was something else, please explain...I'm intrigued. Read PTR's argument first, he was the one I was quoting.
BigBuff423 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Read PTR's argument first, he was the one I was quoting. I did read it, and it sounds like PTR was saying the book is still out on EJ and that giving up this soon would not make much sense and contrarian to the philosophy of giving a Rookie QB at least a couple years to develop and your argument was that EJ is not and will not be capable of leading the Buffalo Offense and then made the comparison between Manning and EJ after PTR simply said that you must assume Brady and Manning are "lighting it up on every play"....? I still don't see how saying "I mean EJ threw 11 TD's this year in 10 games. Manning threw like 55 in 16. That's an apples to apples comparison, not a Sportscenter highlight." makes sense as again, your statement presumes all things are equal except the Quarterback...sooooo, again, I supposed you've lost me if that's not what you're saying...
3rdand12 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Considering that we were pacing the Broncos for the better part of the season as the only two teams putting up 20 or more every game, with very few points from the D and special teams (field goals notwithstanding), I'd say he did alright. Also don't forget, he was doing that with two injured RB's and a carousel of injured and inexperienced QB's. I'm not saying it couldn't have been better, but all things being equal, he did at least an average job. Far from being in over his head IMHO. well maybe a little bit. But he gets the rookie pass due to effort Everyone has a choice heading into a new season. Some decide that this will be the year that they turn it around, some decide it's just another year. Regardless, it is a choice. Or we could be open minded ? At least till the first major injury anyways
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Speaking for myself: 1) Because if the Bills played any one of their up-coming regular season match-ups today, they would be considered underdogs in all but four of them.Underdogs win all the time Actually, underdogs win some of the time. It's not an enviable position. 2) EJ did not show me nearly enough to think he could be successful, if he stays healthy. For a rookie he showed enough Enough? What he showed was inconsistency- when he was on the field. 3) Our weakest position was at QB, and we have not improved that position. Wrong it was LG then RT. Our QB situation last season was horrific! How could anyone say differently? 4) One knee injury could, perhaps, be bad luck. It's hard to look at three knee injuries as bad luck. One year out of all the years he's played, I'd call it a fluke not a trend. One year out of... ONE YEAR. Fluke? 5) The best thing about our team last season was our defense. Then we lost our DC, and our pro-bowl safety. Wrong #2 rushing offense, both RBs are back. I will agree that our rushing offense was the best thing about our offense! 6) I haven't seen enough improvements in the offseason to warrant that large of a shift in our record. Plenty of talent added this offseason. Plenty? As another poster pointed out, the acceptance of mediocrity by Bills fans is disturbing. Some good talent, sure. Plenty? How much is plenty? Enough to bring us back to the playoffs and out from under the bottom of our division? I appreciate the optimism. But, I'll stick with pessimism and hope to be pleasantly surprised. ALL ROOKIE QBs ARE INCONSISTENT.Besides Marino please name me which ones that were not. You said QB was the weakest position, LG was easily the weakest position with RT coming in second, I don't know what you were watching if you don't agree with this. I said out of all the years he played football one years a fluke, in which you replied ONE YEARS A FLUKE. Funny I didn't know EJ got drafted in the first round without ever playing, GOOD FOR HIM. Stat wise rushing offense beat out passing offense, rushing defense, passing defense, and special teams, so it was the best part of our team. As far as player additions being good enough we will have to wait and see. Last year looked very underwhelming, but turned out very good, I'll trust Whaley he's earned it. I'll always be optimistic, it beats everything else.
FireChan Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I did read it, and it sounds like PTR was saying the book is still out on EJ and that giving up this soon would not make much sense and contrarian to the philosophy of giving a Rookie QB at least a couple years to develop and your argument was that EJ is not and will not be capable of leading the Buffalo Offense and then made the comparison between Manning and EJ after PTR simply said that you must assume Brady and Manning are "lighting it up on every play"....? I still don't see how saying "I mean EJ threw 11 TD's this year in 10 games. Manning threw like 55 in 16. That's an apples to apples comparison, not a Sportscenter highlight." makes sense as again, your statement presumes all things are equal except the Quarterback...sooooo, again, I supposed you've lost me if that's not what you're saying... He said Manning and Brady aren't perfect and don't have great games. He said that our "thoughts" on what a good QB looks like is a false picture painted by SC highlights. I showed him a stat of TD's by a great QB, compared to the stats of our QB in order to refute this claim. I know a great QB throws 40 TD's, not 11. Keep in mind, this argument started by discussing the Carolina game, not about "giving up on EJ" as neither one of us had brought that up to each other. I said the guys who are high on EJ talk up the Panthers game like he threw 300 yards, 3 TD's 64% completion. I gave him a play by play of the end of that game, where EJ had back to back turnovers when we needed to score. EJ won the game and played well. But he didn't have a Manning/Brady game, even though that's how some make it sound. The argument was never Denver offense vs Buffalo offense. It was what a good QB looks like outside of SportsCenter.
TheBrownBear Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I voted QB play because Manuel sucks. Could change if we pick up a decent qb before the start of the season.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Of course he gets credit! You're misunderstanding. The only thing I said was that while the Carolina game was good for EJ, we shouldn't bandy it about like he dominated, or looked great. He got the job done and that's awesome. But it wasn't a super performance. I think it's because an excellent game for EJ is 200 yards and 2 TD's, while an excellent game for some of the superstars is 350 yards, 3-4 TD's. I mean EJ threw 11 TD's this year in 10 games. Manning threw like 55 in 16. That's an apples to apples comparison, not a Sportscenter highlight. Did you just try to compare one of the best QBs ever with 15 years experience and better supporting cast with a rookie? That's like comparing LeBron James with Cody Zeller ( Cody was actually picked #4 ).Very weak argument. Edited May 7, 2014 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS
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