Bill from NYC Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 So drafting good players isnt a good way to build the team? Instead if disguising it, just own the fact that you always have, and always will believe that any first round pick on a player < 270 lbs is "squandering precious resources" and "not a way to build a team." It depends on the team. If you have a solid, proven qb and your lines are sound, you have the luxury of the bpa. And I do think that whether or not the 3 players were are talking about lived up to their draft slots is certainly up for debate, don't you?
Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 It depends on the team. If you have a solid, proven qb and your lines are sound, you have the luxury of the bpa. And I do think that whether or not the 3 players were are talking about lived up to their draft slots is certainly up for debate, don't you? QB I agree with, I do not necessarily agree that you need your lines first. You can just as easily swing and miss on a John McCargo as on a skill player. You take BPA once you have a QB. If it is a lineman fine, if it is a skill player fine. I do have concerns about the QB position but am willing to give EJ this year.
RyanC883 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I vote for OT as well, but hopefully not the 4th rated guy on the board at the 9th pick. If they find themselves in that scenario, get better value at the position on day 2. I understand people not wanting to take the 4th rated OT at 9. But, if he is the BPA, why not take him. I'd rather him than reach for another player just because he is higher rated at his position, IMO>
K-9 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I understand people not wanting to take the 4th rated OT at 9. But, if he is the BPA, why not take him. I'd rather him than reach for another player just because he is higher rated at his position, IMO> It's funny you mention that because Mayock now has four OTs in his top 10. Ironically, the kid from Notre Dame is at #9. GO BILLS!!!
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Seems the first rd WRs that have succeeded have all had size. Watkins is pretty average. Don't know if anyone is elite at WR in the draft. Still fascinated by the potential of kelvin Benjamin.
K-9 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Building a team is NEVER a linear process. EVER. The idea that if you don't have your QB and OL in place means you have the luxury of reaching for need to fill those positions, is anathema to the process. Indeed, if you don't have that QB or OL, you are probably a poor team and the last thing you can or should do is reach for the need to fill it. The latest and greatest examples are all those teams that reached for QBs a mere two three years ago. Newton, who was a legit #1 prospect, is the only one of who justified his high slot. I have a strong suspicion the Jags and Vikings are kicking themselves when they think of the players that got away while they were reaching. If a QB is there and he's high on your player board, then take him. If a QB is there, but not close to your BPA, then it's a reach and a mistake. Same with OLmen. Great football players are always a position of need. GO BILLS!!!
Herb62 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Many times I feared that the Bills would draft a particular player who I could strongly sense would not win us football games. A few examples are: Leodis McKelvin Stephon Gilmore CJ Spiller Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter. There were some players that I did tend to over-rate. This is because I am not a professional GM. There were others that I didn't think that any team would be stupid enough to draft high, such as Donte Whitner. The 2006 draft was my worst day as a Bills fan. Well, this year, my biggest nightmare is Sammy Watkins. I see him as a possible flashy gadget player ala Spiller, which is the very last team this team needs. The thought of trading UP for him makes me cringe, and I guarantee that it will NOT result in winning football games. That said, it seems to be a real possibility . So, what do I hope for? A QB (because I have little faith in Manuel), or an Offensive Tackle. An OT would increase the odds of Manuel being good imo. The absolute dumbest thing the Bills can do would be to trade up for Watkins. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did this. I wish all of my fellow Bills Fans a productive draft. We really do deserve one this time. Have fun all! GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree, I said we should have taken Russelll Wilson two years ago right after they passed on him and i took much grief for this. We will pass on Johnny football and be shocked as he leads Cleveland (with the second pick) to years of playoff excitment.
thewildrabbit Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 FTL - I think the last line, that you don't trust them, is likely the thing that's most at the core of your distaste for the idea I'd be lying if I said it wasn't, but there are also other reasons. The Bills biggest need is not another receiver, as they just used two #3's, and a #2, made a trade for an established good WR in Mike Williams. In the most talent laden draft in the past decade this team is thinking of trading up and giving up picks. They should be thinking of trading back instead. This team is NOT one player away from anything, as they need to fill several holes. The first and foremost reason I hate the idea of trading up is giving up those picks that for the first time in years this draft that could entail starters being found in rounds 3 & 4. The Bills have a corps of 2nd year QB's that were harried, hit, and hurried far to often last year. (108 hits, 48 sacks) 3 of 5 players on that line graded in the red against the Patriots. The biggest need as I perceive it is O line. I think what Bill was trying to convey is that over the last 14 years this team has expended so many resources on RB's, DB's, on the defense, and where has it gotten them? A defense so overloaded with talent that 9 of 11 starters are 1st & 2nd round draft choices. Still 6-10. Not one regime in all that time has come in and built a proper O line with top talent across the board. Which is exactly what helped propel this franchise to two AFL championships and four super bowls. On another note, should the Bills trade up and it doesn't get them a winning season. Well then, I could see it as the final nail for this regime.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 It depends on the team. If you have a solid, proven qb and your lines are sound, you have the luxury of the bpa. And I do think that whether or not the 3 players were are talking about lived up to their draft slots is certainly up for debate, don't you? Seattle and SF did the complete opposite of what you're suggesting and it worked out for them.
DC Tom Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 cb is my pick. We play some really high end passing teams this year. I always hope for a CB in the first round, just to watch Bill from NYC's head explode.
nucci Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Many times I feared that the Bills would draft a particular player who I could strongly sense would not win us football games. A few examples are: Leodis McKelvin Stephon Gilmore CJ Spiller Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter. There were some players that I did tend to over-rate. This is because I am not a professional GM. There were others that I didn't think that any team would be stupid enough to draft high, such as Donte Whitner. The 2006 draft was my worst day as a Bills fan. Well, this year, my biggest nightmare is Sammy Watkins. I see him as a possible flashy gadget player ala Spiller, which is the very last team this team needs. The thought of trading UP for him makes me cringe, and I guarantee that it will NOT result in winning football games. That said, it seems to be a real possibility . So, what do I hope for? A QB (because I have little faith in Manuel), or an Offensive Tackle. An OT would increase the odds of Manuel being good imo. The absolute dumbest thing the Bills can do would be to trade up for Watkins. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did this. I wish all of my fellow Bills Fans a productive draft. We really do deserve one this time. Have fun all! GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! because reporters speculate?
Bronc24 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I understand people not wanting to take the 4th rated OT at 9. But, if he is the BPA, why not take him. I'd rather him than reach for another player just because he is higher rated at his position, IMO> Agree. Fourth rated by who? Kiper? McShay? If he will pave the way for a decade, I'm ok with that.
Chandler#81 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I'm holding out hope for a QB. There isn't one on the team yet..
NoSaint Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I understand people not wanting to take the 4th rated OT at 9. But, if he is the BPA, why not take him. I'd rather him than reach for another player just because he is higher rated at his position, IMO> I think you'd see a two fold argument: 1) that odds are in most cases the 4th best player at a position is typically not the 9th best player in the draft. Not always, but just spit balling, it's probably rare 2) odds are he hasn't seperated himself widely from the 10th or 11th even if he is 9th if he hasn't been able to pass even the 3rd best guy at his position and it may be worth looking harder at need if that's the case. If he's the bpa though, feel free to grab him but I think many would guess you are reaching to fill a hole
Bill from NYC Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 On another note, should the Bills trade up and it doesn't get them a winning season. Well then, I could see it as the final nail for this regime. I agree 100%! Worse yet, if a pick like this either gets hurt or is a bust, the franchise would be set back for another 5 years or so. I always hope for a CB in the first round, just to watch Bill from NYC's head explode. Most people who read this probably think that you are joking.
thewildrabbit Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I always hope for a CB in the first round, just to watch Bill from NYC's head explode. Be careful what you hope for, even if it is a joke. The Bills did have 6 DB's, and 6 RB's in for pre draft visits. which is the most out of the 29 interviews http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2014/4/27/5657932/nfl-draft-2014-buffalo-bills-pre-draft-visitors-breakdown/in/5338091 First round a DB, second round a RB.... Bills head literally explodes...
Bill from NYC Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 Be careful what you hope for, even if it is a joke. The Bills did have 6 DB's, and 6 RB's in for pre draft visits. which is the most out of the 29 interviews http://www.buffaloru...down/in/5338091 First round a DB, second round a RB.... Bills head literally explodes... Believe it or not I could deal with a second round rb IF they acquired an extra second round pick in a trade down. Count me as one who thinks that the Bills will, or already do need another running back. FJ is old and CJ......never mind.
thewildrabbit Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Believe it or not I could deal with a second round rb IF they acquired an extra second round pick in a trade down. Count me as one who thinks that the Bills will, or already do need another running back. FJ is old and CJ......never mind. YoloinOhio convinced me that Carlos Hyde could be worthy of that #2, and yet now I highly doubt he makes it to round two. I view RB as not a big need just yet, and with better blocking Spiller would make a bigger impact IMO. If they can't resign him tho... Anyway, i'm also for a trade back, and still am holding out hope for an OT, OG, and perhaps a TE in the first three picks
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Believe it or not I could deal with a second round rb IF they acquired an extra second round pick in a trade down. Count me as one who thinks that the Bills will, or already do need another running back. FJ is old and CJ......never mind. You can never have enough cornerbacks, Bill.
Ramius Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) It depends on the team. If you have a solid, proven qb and your lines are sound, you have the luxury of the bpa. And I do think that whether or not the 3 players were are talking about lived up to their draft slots is certainly up for debate, don't you? QB yes. OL, no. There are countless examples of teams with average lines that perform that make the playoffs and go far, including last year's Super Bowl Champs. Not to mention the Bills OL has 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd rounder starting on it. That's an awful lot of early round picks. You always take BPA (within reason). BPA isnt a "luxury." In today's NFL, you need the skill players to be able to be active in the passing game and to score. Focusing on strictly OL is antiquated and myopic, especially when you're talking about a RT. LT, sure, but RT, no. Many of us believe that you can find a decent RT in round 2 or 3, which would suit this team fine. We believe we need to upgrade at RT, just not at pick #9. You are holding on to this odd belief that nothing is as important as the OL, which is completely untrue. As for McKelvin etc, i could care less if they "live up to their draft slot." All i care about is how they perform on the field. If they are good players (which all 3 of them are), then that's what matters. You win football by amassing total talent, not relative talent compared to draft position. You can never have enough cornerbacks, Bill. I know you jest, but the numbers say that on the majority of defensive downs, you are playing 5 or 6 DBs on the field. That's equal to or more than the number of OL on the field on offensive downs. I fail to see why teams should completely ignore DBs on draft day when 25% of your total starters are DBs. Note: i don't believe nor do i think that the Bills need to spend a high pick on a DB this year. I like our top 3-4 CBs as well as AW23. Add a DB in rounds 5-7, but not early. Edited May 6, 2014 by Ramius
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