Bad Vibes About A Certain Player.....

[FLFan]

I am with you, Bill, on Watkins. I do not think his college game will translate and he will be a big disappointment. That said, I do not see the Bills trading up for him at all. People love the skill positions and flashy players, but the Bills biggest need is a true starting OT for the right side, and if a potentially dominant one is there, they should jump. This is the biggest thing they can do to help the offense this year. They need two tackles - RT vs. LT not a big deal to me. It matters that they do not give up sack, and can run, from either side.

 

I do not agree with you on Manuel and would not advocate taking any of these QB's in the top ten, or for the Bills to take one at all at least through the first two rounds..

[thewildrabbit]

I don't necessarily disagree at all. I am hoping that guy elevates the team like AJ Green or Julio did. Dalton still stinks but his team has been much better. I am not so much worried about elevating EJ as I am elevating the Bills.

I'd rather have it the other way around, and allow the QB to elevate the Bills to win games by getting him the best protection I possibly can.

 

 

 

The Atlanta Falcons are a good example here. In 2007 Atlanta was 4-12. They drafted QB Matt Ryan #3 overall back in 2008, and the team went 11-5 with a new QB, HC, staff. Then in 2011 the Falcons FO perceived all they needed was one more elite WR, as they already had two all pro's in their receiving corsp in Tony Gonzalaz, and WR Roddy White. The Falcons went ahead and give up five picks for him. Two #1's, a #2, a #3, a #4 for him, and they did win more games. The big difference is that they already had their developed franchise QB.

 

 

The Bills are not in the same situation, as they don't already have an all pro TE, all pro WR, or franchise QB who is already developed. Plus, the Bills don't have only one perceived need. They need an OT, OG, DE, TE, LBer, WR. I'd rather see them fill three of those holes with starters this draft rather then one player.

 

As for the Bengals they were in the playoffs back in 2009 with Carson Palmer at QB, and Chad Johnson & TJ whosyourmama at WR, so they already had the nucleus of a playoff team before they drafted Green or Dalton. The Bills had a shot to draft Andy Dalton. Like I've already said, I just don't trust these guys to get it right on one player.

[NoSaint]

FTL - I think the last line, that you don't trust them, is likely the thing that's most at the core of your distaste for the idea

[BigBuff423]

I am, and have been, completely against trading UP for ANY player, including Watkins. That said, I don't think the BILLS will actually trade up but instead do their best to trade DOWN and assuming that's the case, I believe as DW said they will go BPA. For some, that will cause some consternation because in all honesty, depending on where they end up IF they do trade down, could be a CB or LB with a 2nd Round pick being a CB or LB or DE. So while DW has stated they are committed to getting EJ weapons and protection, he knows the Draft can NOT be based purely on need...that's how you kill a team quickly, not assigning proper value. And to DW's credit, he has said that you assign the grade and you stick to your board, do the preparation, and it takes all the anxiety out of the Draft process. So, I think none of us really know what the BILLS value or what their board looks like, but I DO think we will be in for a surprise or two in the first couple days.....just a hunch.

[Fingon]

Spiller has a career average of 5.1 yards per carry, and is 2 years away from 1250 yards on 6.0 YPC. Even last year he had 900 yards on 4.6 YPC while playing the entire season on a bum ankle. Marshawn Lynch has had one season in his ENTIRE career with a YPC above 4.2. Spiller is on pace to be one of the all-time leaders in NFL history for career yards per carry. I believe only Jamaal Charles is ahead of him at this point.

 

The point is that we need more players that are ridiculously efficient with the ball in their hands. If Watkins produce at a rate like Spiller does then he will be a great player.

 

Edit: Sorry, Spiller is .1 behind Jim Brown and is 3rd all time for RBs.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Fingon

[C.Biscuit97]

Spiller has a career average of 5.1 yards per carry, and is 2 years away from 1250 yards on 6.0 YPC. Even last year he had 900 yards on 4.6 YPC while playing the entire season on a bum ankle. Marshawn Lynch has had one season in his ENTIRE career with a YPC above 4.2. Spiller is on pace to be one of the all-time leaders in NFL history for career yards per carry. I believe only Jamaal Charles is ahead of him at this point.

 

The point is that we need more players that are ridiculously efficient with the ball in their hands. If Watkins produce at a rate like Spiller does then he will be a great player.

 

Edit: Sorry, Spiller is .1 behind Jim Brown and is 3rd all time for RBs.

 

Yeah, it's a joke how much crap he gets. One of my best friends is a Jets fan (terrible person) and hates the Bills. The only positive thing he ever says is how good Spiller is. Yet, some fans constantly put him down.

 

Yeah, Spiller and his 5.1 ypc are the problem. Not the QBs, not the run defense, not the defense that folds in crunch time. It's Spiller. The crazy part is when he goes to another team and explodes, the same people will be trashing the Bills for letting him go. It's insane!

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

 

 

Yeah, it's a joke how much crap he gets. One of my best friends is a Jets fan (terrible person) and hates the Bills. The only positive thing he ever says is how good Spiller is. Yet, some fans constantly put him down.

 

Yeah, Spiller and his 5.1 ypc are the problem. Not the QBs, not the run defense, not the defense that folds in crunch time. It's Spiller. The crazy part is when he goes to another team and explodes, the same people will be trashing the Bills for letting him go. It's insane!

I agree with this! I also wonder if having a matchup advantage on the outside, someone like Watkins or Evans, wouldn't benefit everyone on offense.

[Bill from NYC]

Spiller has a career average of 5.1 yards per carry, and is 2 years away from 1250 yards on 6.0 YPC. Even last year he had 900 yards on 4.6 YPC while playing the entire season on a bum ankle. Marshawn Lynch has had one season in his ENTIRE career with a YPC above 4.2. Spiller is on pace to be one of the all-time leaders in NFL history for career yards per carry. I believe only Jamaal Charles is ahead of him at this point.

 

The point is that we need more players that are ridiculously efficient with the ball in their hands. If Watkins produce at a rate like Spiller does then he will be a great player.

 

Edit: Sorry, Spiller is .1 behind Jim Brown and is 3rd all time for RBs.

 

I repect your opinion and the stats you provided. The thing is, have you ever wondered why, if Spiller is now to be likened to Jim Brown, teams are not beating down the door to trade for him? I have huge doubts that the Bills could get a 3rd round pick for him. Passing league or not, Jim Brown would be worth an untold amount. In another thread Spiller was compared to Barry Sanders, and I suspect that Sanders might be just a little better than Spiller as well.

[SoulMan]

OT and trade SJ for a pick and take a C/OT with that pick.

[Fingon]

I repect your opinion and the stats you provided. The thing is, have you ever wondered why, if Spiller is now to be likened to Jim Brown, teams are not beating down the door to trade for him? I have huge doubts that the Bills could get a 3rd round pick for him. Passing league or not, Jim Brown would be worth an untold amount. In another thread Spiller was compared to Barry Sanders, and I suspect that Sanders might be just a little better than Spiller as well.

The Eagles tried to trade for Spiller. The Bills weren't even interested in discussing it. Also, no one is saying Spiller is as good as Jim Brown. Brown played in an era when stopping the run was a defense's number one priority. All we are saying is that no one else in the NFL (besides Jamaal Charles) produces as much per touch.

[Gordio]

Don't be surprised if they take the safety out of Alabama or the safety out of Louisville. This would be in a nutshell why the Bills have not made the playoffs. They always let a real good player walk(whether it was their fault or not Byrd walked) & they try to replace them in the draft. They have done this numerous times in the last 10 years. The problem with this is your just spinning your wheels & you never get better.

[Fingon]

Don't be surprised if they take the safety out of Alabama or the safety out of Louisville. This would be in a nutshell why the Bills have not made the playoffs. They always let a real good player walk(whether it was their fault or not Byrd walked) & they try to replace them in the draft. They have done this numerous times in the last 10 years. The problem with this is your just spinning your wheels & you never get better.

The Bills already signed Byrd's replacement: Corey Graham.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Thanks for posting!

 

I actually think that Watkins is one of the safest players in the draft.

 

I would actually say that I would be excited yet nervous if we drafted Mack. Aaron Curry comes to mind for someone who was really hyped yp but never really panned out in the NFL

 

 

CBF

[YoloinOhio]

Many times I feared that the Bills would draft a particular player who I could strongly sense would not win us football games. A few examples are:

Leodis McKelvin

Stephon Gilmore

CJ Spiller

Some may argue that they are "good." Our won/loss record begs to differ and tells us that this doesn't matter.

 

There were some players that I did tend to over-rate. This is because I am not a professional GM.

 

There were others that I didn't think that any team would be stupid enough to draft high, such as Donte Whitner. The 2006 draft was my worst day as a Bills fan.

 

Well, this year, my biggest nightmare is Sammy Watkins. I see him as a possible flashy gadget player ala Spiller, which is the very last team this team needs. The thought of trading UP for him makes me cringe, and I guarantee that it will NOT result in winning football games. That said, it seems to be a real possibility .

 

So, what do I hope for? A QB (because I have little faith in Manuel), or an Offensive Tackle. An OT would increase the odds of Manuel being good imo. The absolute dumbest thing the Bills can do would be to trade up for Watkins. That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did this.

 

I wish all of my fellow Bills Fans a productive draft. We really do deserve one this time. Have fun all!

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ICYMI... projected 1st rd LB, Ryan Shazier - meet Sammy:

twitpic.com/e30jac

[metzelaars_lives]

Well if they do happen to get Watkins, let's hope that your intuition is wrong about him just like it was with McKelvin, Gilmore and Spiller because all three of them are good football players. And if your argument is that their record disproves this then I would ask you how the Vikings' record has been with Adrian Peterson or what the Jets ever won with Revis. All three of those guys were the right pick and the consensus pick by most experts at the time. How you mention those three and not Maybin or Troup over Gronkowski baffles me but this is nothing new. Let the record state that I have great "vibes" about Watkins by the way. EDIT: So I live in Colorado and am a diehard Rockies fan. Obviously Troy Tulowitzki is insane right now but my friend Bob, who also claims to be a Rockies fan, constantly says that he's overrated, can't stay healthy, etc. and says, just wait, he'll get hurt... It's gotten to a point where he almost wants Tulo to fail just so he can say "I told you so." I feel that you have this same thing going with several Bills players, most notably Gilmore. And ironically, my friend Bob was born and raised in NYC.

Edited May 6, 2014 by metzelaars_lives

[Dorkington]

Well, since we finish with a losing record every year, one could argue that *every* player we draft is a bust.

 

But that'd be too easy.

[metzelaars_lives]

Well, since we finish with a losing record every year, one could argue that *every* player we draft is a bust.

 

But that'd be too easy.

Exactly. Edited May 6, 2014 by metzelaars_lives

[Bill from NYC]

Well if they do happen to get Watkins, let's hope that your intuition is wrong about him just like it was with McKelvin, Gilmore and Spiller because all three of them are good football players.

I am sorry that you felt the need to be hostile without reading the post. Over and over in this thread I have said that all 3 are good players. That was not my point. I don't think that using top 10 picks on players such as these is a great idea if a team is trying to build a foundation.

In any event, maybe lashing out helps you get anger out of your system.

 

Be well and Go Bills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ramius]

 

I am sorry that you felt the need to be hostile without reading the post. Over and over in this thread I have said that all 3 are good players. That was not my point. I don't think that using top 10 picks on players such as these is a great idea if a team is trying to build a foundation.

In any event, maybe lashing out helps you get anger out of your system.

 

Be well and Go Bills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So drafting good players isnt a good way to build the team?

 

Instead if disguising it, just own the fact that you always have, and always will believe that any first round pick on a player < 270 lbs is "squandering precious resources" and "not a way to build a team."

[metzelaars_lives]

I am sorry that you felt the need to be hostile without reading the post. Over and over in this thread I have said that all 3 are good players. That was not my point. I don't think that using top 10 picks on players such as these is a great idea if a team is trying to build a foundation.

In any event, maybe lashing out helps you get anger out of your system.

 

Be well and Go Bills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I admit I haven't read the entire thread, I did read your original post in which you said (in reference to said three players) that "some may argue that they are 'good'." That is not a ringing endorsement as I interpreted it. Did you mention who you thought they should've taken in place of those three players? We desperately needed a cornerback and Gilmore was a lay up in the position we took him. Spiller shouldn't have dropped that far and Budddy Nix felt that he was too unique and special a talent to pass on him and it certainly paid off in 2012. As far as McKelvin, like Gilmore, he was the consensus best CB on the board when we picked and we desperately needed a CB at that time as well (don't agree with why needed one- ditching other first round CB's that had played well for us- but that is another conversation). I am not trying to vent anger, I just feel like you have this not-so-hidden agenda of telling everyone that you don't think Gilmore is going to be good and this entire thread is just another way for you to tell us that. I think Gilmore is going to be very good. And if he's not, you don't win the argument because it was a smart pick at the time by nearly everyone's account. It's not like it was a reach like Whitner, Troup, Graham, et al. So you may as well get on the bandwagon and start pulling for him like everyone else. And yes, go Bills!

Edited May 6, 2014 by metzelaars_lives