Sisyphean Bills Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 OK, I will answer the question posed by the OP. "Was Manuel Whaley's choice or Nix's?" YES It depends on how he turns out. If he wins a Super Bowl, he'll be the choice of the last guys around. If he fails, the selection will be credited to Nix. Enough with this trying to be accurate stuff. It's about fitting the data to the narrative.
K-9 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 It depends on how he turns out. If he wins a Super Bowl, he'll be the choice of the last guys around. If he fails, the selection will be credited to Nix. Too late for that scenario. Whaley is already on record as owning the pick, regardless of how Manuel pans out. GO BILLS!!!
Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) "Those conversations & decisions are all made when the draft board is formed. That's the way that it really works despite what the movie Draft Day portrays. Kevin Costner does not stand up and make some bold declaration in front of a room full of minions." I haven't seen that movie so I'm not sure what you're talking about. "The work is all done in advance (sorry to disappoint). There are never these big dramatic moments when someone makes a bold decision against the group. They have already decided what they would do when presented with a particular situation. " Really?? Never?? No disagreements?? You are really drinking the Kool-aid now my friend. Let me ax you serious question, do you think the Bills made a wise move in drafting Manuel in R1 last year when they could have waited until this year to draft a better prospect?? I have never seen Draft Day either. I have been in two different war rooms during drafts when I worked in sports (including during a 1st round trade). I am speaking more from experience than as a "Kool-Aid drinker." I promise that it works similarly to how I have portrayed it. I am on record as not being an EJ fan so the easy answer is no I do not think that he is a franchise QB. I hope that he proves me wrong. Edited May 6, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Too late for that scenario. Whaley is already on record as owning the pick, regardless of how Manuel pans out. And you think that will slow people down? PS: I assume you are referring to this: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000204027/article/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-integral-in-ej-manuel-pick There is wiggle room there. But, you are entitled to disagree.
ChanOverChin Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 "The board is a fixed object. It also has equations .If this happens X then this is the answer = . its when the trades start popping and phones a ringin it gets hairy . I guess my point is .. Our Boys have already decided . and there is more than one board by the way. " - 3rdand12 C'mon, man. I know you don't seriously believe that horseshiite. Just as one example, when there's a run on a certain position, does that affect their already decided board?? The board is used as guide. What realistically happens is that when it's time for the Bills to pick they will have narrowed their pick down to a handful of players. They will discuss each player at length and then make their choice via consensus, but the consensus will be guided by the GM. They will not select somebody that the GM doesn't like. They will not necessarily select the highest rated player on their board every time for various reasons.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 What realistically happens is that when it's time for the Bills to pick they will have narrowed their pick down to a handful of players. They will discuss each player at length and then make their choice via consensus, but the consensus will be guided by the GM. They will not select somebody that the GM doesn't like. They will not necessarily select the highest rated player on their board every time for various reasons. The board evolves via position. If the Bills draft a WR in the 1st and they get to their 2nd round pick and a WR is tops on their board they move on to the next highest rated player.
3rdand12 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) A few posters have quite the active imagination. Its more fun that way. The reality is sometimes less adventurous.But ChanOverChin.. those arguments have been hashed out ad nauseum i imagine. I will defer to the folks here abouts that have life experience as compared to my conjectures and rightly and respectfully so. But the Bills draft central had best be of one mind going in to Thursday evening ! When the bullets fly is no time to discuss much less argue . : ) "The board is a fixed object. It also has equations .If this happens X then this is the answer = . its when the trades start popping and phones a ringin it gets hairy . I guess my point is .. Our Boys have already decided . and there is more than one board by the way. " - 3rdand12 C'mon, man. I know you don't seriously believe that horseshiite. Just as one example, when there's a run on a certain position, does that affect their already decided board?? The board is used as guide. What realistically happens is that when it's time for the Bills to pick they will have narrowed their pick down to a handful of players. They will discuss each player at length and then make their choice via consensus, but the consensus will be guided by the GM. They will not select somebody that the GM doesn't like. They will not necessarily select the highest rated player on their board every time for various reasons. I dont think you read that as well as i might have hoped. What i mean is that they plan for contingency upon contingency based upon their Big Board .sorry Edited May 6, 2014 by 3rdand12
K-9 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 "The board is a fixed object. It also has equations .If this happens X then this is the answer = . its when the trades start popping and phones a ringin it gets hairy . I guess my point is .. Our Boys have already decided . and there is more than one board by the way. " - 3rdand12 C'mon, man. I know you don't seriously believe that horseshiite. Just as one example, when there's a run on a certain position, does that affect their already decided board?? The board is used as guide. What realistically happens is that when it's time for the Bills to pick they will have narrowed their pick down to a handful of players. They will discuss each player at length and then make their choice via consensus, but the consensus will be guided by the GM. They will not select somebody that the GM doesn't like. They will not necessarily select the highest rated player on their board every time for various reasons. Somebody the "GM doesn't like" won't be on their board and wouldn't have been discussed ad infinitum in the first place. Like I said earlier, in the rare instance when a consensus is not reached, the GM makes the decision. That scenario is remarkably rare, given the months of planning that goes into the process. You'd be surprised at how many times they've simulated this thing and with how many iterations. Kirby's allusion to the horizontal and vertical player boards above is worth noting as well. You'd be surprised how often they really DO take the highest rated players on their boards. There's more argument over the UDFAs than anything else. That's when scouts really pound the table. GO BILLS!!!
34-78-83 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 That's an enormous assumption. If you ask me, the writing was all over the wall that Nix was just being kept on so as to prevent him from going to another team prior to the Draft last year and knowing what we want to do, that and the team saving as much face as possible for not having ditched him immediately after the season. Who knows what was going on in the dysfunctional workings of OBD, but I got completely the opposite impression, that Nix was just being kept on for reasons of convenience, to assist in the transfer of full authority to Whaley, and so that he wouldn't talk prior to the Draft knowing what he knew. Whaley's supposed to be the personnel genius. Either way, there are posters here that truly believe that every negative player acquisition since Whaley's been here since 2010 as the Asst. GM had absolutely nothing to do with him, while every positive player acquisition that's occurred is due all but entirely to him. Also, to what extent does this team rely on its scouts, which is largely rhetorical. Some teams have much more competent GMs or others high up that ultimately make those decisions, others rely far more on their scouts, who get paid to do this work. Honestly, with the advent and development of the internet, the role of scouts has almost been neutralized. Exactly right, which IMO is why Nix was kept on, to deflect future criticism. I don't know any good reason why a team would allow a GM that they've already told will be out the door after the draft, for the most part, to have final say on anything but cleaning the restrooms at the Ralph. Let's not forget, it was public knowledge prior to the draft last year that Nix was out as GM some time imminently after the draft. LOL Have you got a link for that? Yeah, it's worked so well for us lo these past 15 years. I wish someone were in charge that knew what they were doing and "wouldn't value the others' opinions" quite as much. This is how a mod writes? some scary logic and thoughts there, just my opinion. Regarding my portion - Whaley has been with the team 3 years, only 2 of which he had any say so not sure what the 15 year thing is you are referring to. I certainly didn't say this is the way they've always done it. (Clearly not under T.D. for example ). But whatever... too hard for you to believe apparently that Nix is one of the most useful set of eyes in recent league history regarding player personnel evaluation. It's all good.
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Whaley went to Barkley's pro day ( http://www.wgr550.com/Bills-Whaley-present-at-Barkley-s-pro-day/15901655 ). Unfortunately, it's blank, but if you plug this in, you can get pieces of the text saying that Whaley was the Bills rep at USC: https://www.google.com/search?q=barkley+bills+buffalo+pro+day+strength+scout+profootballtalk&oq=barkley+bills+buffalo+pro+day+strength+scout+profootballtalk&aqs=chrome..69i57.21264j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8#q=whaley+barkley+pro+day+ Also, if you search the web, you'll find comments from a Buffalo person criticizing Barkley's arm on a number of sites. And you'll also find this about Robert Woods being the star of the day. I wonder who that could be who made that comment: http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2013/03/27/matt-barkleys-pro-day-his-arm-is-good-but-its-not-elite/ . The larger point - Whaley was the guy doing the searching for a QB last year, not Nix.
3rdand12 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Whaley went to Barkley's pro day ( http://www.wgr550.co...ro-day/15901655 ). Unfortunately, it's blank, but if you plug this in, you can get pieces of the text saying that Whaley was the Bills rep at USC: https://www.google.c...arkley pro day Also, if you search the web, you'll find comments from a Buffalo person criticizing Barkley's arm on a number of sites. And you'll also find this about Robert Woods being the star of the day. I wonder who that could be who made that comment: http://blogs.thescor...-its-not-elite/ . The larger point - Whaley was the guy doing the searching for a QB last year, not Nix. So Doug was the scout for EJ? and then had final say ? Nice link btw
34-78-83 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Whaley went to Barkley's pro day ( http://www.wgr550.co...ro-day/15901655 ). Unfortunately, it's blank, but if you plug this in, you can get pieces of the text saying that Whaley was the Bills rep at USC: https://www.google.c...arkley pro day Also, if you search the web, you'll find comments from a Buffalo person criticizing Barkley's arm on a number of sites. And you'll also find this about Robert Woods being the star of the day. I wonder who that could be who made that comment: http://blogs.thescor...-its-not-elite/ . The larger point - Whaley was the guy doing the searching for a QB last year, not Nix. Nothing here that I disagree with. And to add , like Whaley has already indicated numerous times, he likely took all that research and leg work and probably ran some thoughts and maybe some film by mr. Nix as a valued expert on such player evals. Or maybe Nix looked at the film early on and then Whaley did the leg work. Who knows? it doesn't matter. But there is no reason to believe it was not a collaboration.
dave mcbride Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Nothing here that I disagree with. And to add , like Whaley has already indicated numerous times, he likely took all that research and leg work and probably ran some thoughts and maybe some film by mr. Nix as a valued expert on such player evals. Or maybe Nix looked at the film early on and then Whaley did the leg work. Who knows? it doesn't matter. But there is no reason to believe it was not a collaboration. I definitely believe Whaley and Nix were and are sympatico. I just think that DW had final say last year. That said, I'm assuming he and Nix were in tune with each other.
K-9 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 And you think that will slow people down? PS: I assume you are referring to this: http://www.nfl.com/n...-ej-manuel-pick There is wiggle room there. But, you are entitled to disagree. If that's wiggle room, I'd hate to see your idea of a tight space. The video of Whaley addressing the luncheon at the stadium after the draft last year is even more compelling. Regardless, it's not how things are done and I'd be surprised if Whaley pointed the finger at anybody if Manuel doesn't pan out. GO BILLS!!! GO BILLS!!!
3rdand12 Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I definitely believe Whaley and Nix were and are sympatico. I just think that DW had final say last year. That said, I'm assuming he and Nix were in tune with each other. This is likely a reasonable conclusion to this query. Well done folks If that's wiggle room, I'd hate to see your idea of a tight space. The video of Whaley addressing the luncheon at the stadium after the draft last year is even more compelling. Regardless, it's not how things are done and I'd be surprised if Whaley pointed the finger at anybody if Manuel doesn't pan out. GO BILLS!!! GO BILLS!!! I think the Bills have built a strong majority of very good to great character types to hold down the Fort .Whaley leads the charge.
NoSaint Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Somebody the "GM doesn't like" won't be on their board and wouldn't have been discussed ad infinitum in the first place. Like I said earlier, in the rare instance when a consensus is not reached, the GM makes the decision. That scenario is remarkably rare, given the months of planning that goes into the process. You'd be surprised at how many times they've simulated this thing and with how many iterations. Kirby's allusion to the horizontal and vertical player boards above is worth noting as well. You'd be surprised how often they really DO take the highest rated players on their boards. There's more argument over the UDFAs than anything else. That's when scouts really pound the table. GO BILLS!!! Yea but when you are coaching HS basketball, who makes the calls?
Beerball Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 BB, that's great because I want to be there when your 6 yr old repeats what you've said here in front of your wife. I can hear the 6 yr old now.........WTF......WTF.....WTF............WTF..................WTF. Honey, it's time for bed. WTF!! Honey, do you want milk with your cookies?? WTF. Dear, please clean up your room. WTF!! I'm about to be a grandfather.
Sisyphean Bills Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 If that's wiggle room, I'd hate to see your idea of a tight space. The video of Whaley addressing the luncheon at the stadium after the draft last year is even more compelling. Regardless, it's not how things are done and I'd be surprised if Whaley pointed the finger at anybody if Manuel doesn't pan out. GO BILLS!!! GO BILLS!!! From the link: Whaley did allow that it was a "collaborative effort" between area scouts, cross-checkers, coach Doug Marrone and Nix, Well, I knew you'd disagree but here's some assistance. http://www.merriam-w...ary/collaborate Perhaps a take that no one other than Whaley had any role whatsoever is ... wrong.
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