Was Manuel Whaley's choice or Nix's??

[Buffaloed in Pa]

I said from day one ,it was Nix. No doubt about it. The rest were Whaley and company.

[Beerball]

Beerball, why do YOU have to be the be all end all of this topic?? YOU don't know anymore about the Bills' inner circle than anyone else on this board.

 

That's the point, isn't it?

 

I don't know.

 

You don't know.

 

The Bills know.

 

I'm glad that you are finally beginning to see things my way.

 

Wow you added so much to the conversation...

Let me know when you have something.

[3rdand12]

OK, I will answer the question posed by the OP. "Was Manuel Whaley's choice or Nix's?"

 

YES

Perfect answer !!

[JESSEFEFFER]

I have read only 3 pages of this so my input may be redundant. But.......

 

1) Nix said prior that he wanted to have a QB inplace prior to his retirement.

 

2) Nix said that the QB class was better than many were saying and that they had "identified" a player worthy of their pick.

 

3) Post draft Whaley was talking to a media group? season ticket holders? Bills Backers? inside a suite at the Ralph and raved about EJ's having the "it" factor and how he stood out when he entered a room. He also joked that if he was wrong about EJ then he'd be among the group in the near future rather than speaking to it-- clearly meaning that he expects his job to be riding on the pick.

 

4) Stories post draft mention how thoroughly EJ was scouted, including speaking to a caretaker at FSU's stadium. If I recall correctly . a group went to visit FSU that included Brandon and Marrone.

 

This was very much an organizational effort as they will all succeed or fail based on their collective belief in this guy. If they are willing to stake what is likely to be their professional lives on him then I'm ok with giving him at least 3 years.

 

EJ's rookie year (10 games ) was much like Joe Flacco's ( 16 games ) aside from the missed time. That's normally what rookies look like regardless of whether they ultimately succeed or not.

[3rdand12]

I dont think there is a right or wrong in this exercise. And thats all it is. A fun exercise .

I attempted to avoid a conclusion by calling it THE transition .

I think Nix had a legacy to preserve by drafting a QB ( finally ) and Whaley and Co stamped it.

 

Ps i think " they " did the right thing at the time, considering all circumstances.

[ChanOverChin]

I don't harbor any ill will towards anybody who disagrees with me. I actually enjoy the banter back and forth.

 

I do have to wonder why Beerball is always dropping F-bombs on me though. LOL

 

I'd just like to know from the group who honestly are sold on the Bills' supposed "collaborative approach to everything", what happens when it's R2 and the clock is ticking down to zero???? Whaley likes a WR, Bandon likes an OT, Marrone likes a DE, and Monos likes a LB. How do they decide on which player to choose??

[Kirby Jackson]

I don't harbor any ill will towards anybody who disagrees with me. I actually enjoy the banter back and forth.

 

I do have to wonder why Beerball is always dropping F-bombs on me though. LOL

 

I'd just like to know from the group who honestly are sold on the Bills' supposed "collaborative approach to everything", what happens when it's R2 and the clock is ticking down to zero???? Whaley likes a WR, Bandon likes an OT, Marrone likes a DE, and Monos likes a LB. How do they decide on which player to choose??

They stick to their board that they assembled as a group. They will draft BPA with position of need (which has also been ranked) as the tiebreaker.

[Beerball]

I don't harbor any ill will towards anybody who disagrees with me. I actually enjoy the banter back and forth.

 

I do have to wonder why Beerball is always dropping F-bombs on me though. LOL

 

I'd just like to know from the group who honestly are sold on the Bills' supposed "collaborative approach to everything", what happens when it's R2 and the clock is ticking down to zero???? Whaley likes a WR, Bandon likes an OT, Marrone likes a DE, and Monos likes a LB. How do they decide on which player to choose??

WTF is not an F-bomb.

 

You is an F-bomb.

[FireChan]

Alright, I'll admit it. EJ was my pick.

[ChanOverChin]

BB, what does WTF stand for then?? At least admit when you're wrong.

 

I always get the sense that you're shouting when you post.

 

KJ, sorry that's a BS answer. They're not going to necessarily take the next guy on their board. What if it's a QB?? You said yourself that you believe the Bills are "all in" on Manuel.

 

The answer is that somebody will be forced to take the bull by the horns and make a decision for the team. In that sense, it's really not a "group" decision, now is it??

That somebody will be the man with the most clout

[K-9]

Actually K-9 I just pasted the first thing I saw from your link. You posted it man.

 

Did anybody bother to tell Nix that he was a lame duck GM for the last several years while Whaley was getting his ears wet??

 

See if you understand where I'm coming from. CEO/President/Vice President are charged with hiring a very important person in their organization. They need this guy to turn their organization around and rise above their competition. They meet as a group. They discuss everything about the candidate, pros & cons. They put him through a fitness test. They put him through an IQ test. He's not as highly thought of as some of the other candidates who have more refined skills. Everyone in the room states their case as to whom they would hire. The CEO makes his case very adamently and says this is who we're going to hire because this guy has the most potential, he's got good character, he's hard-working, he's polite, he's well-spoken. They hire the guy that the CEO likes and when questioned publicly everone in the room states that it was a "group decision". Does that then mean that the President and Vice President highly endorsed the hired candidate as THEIR candidate??

 

CEO = Nix

President = Brandon

Vice President = Whaley

 

Yes, as a matter of fact. Nix was told at the beginning of the 2012 season that it would be his last as GM. And he was just fine with it. The 2012 draft was actually Whaley's first where he was in full control, too. He just wasn't the public face of it. It was a foregone conclusion from the day he was hired that Whaley was gonna succeed Buddy. And, again, Nix was just fine with it. Indeed, he was happy to have a hand in picking the guy that would take the reigns.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Beerball]

BB, what does WTF stand for then?? At least admit when you're wrong.

 

It "stands" for who/what/where/when the (which isn't an f-bomb)

 

<edit> I forgot why, please add that to your non-f-bomb list

[K-9]

A shot of Buddy in the draft room last year: http://anddeforestke...ntry-doctor.jpg

 

This made me laugh out loud. Tears, I'm tellin' ya, tears!

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

KJ,

 

The same principle applies though. When you make a decision as a "group" somebody in the group has more clout and that person usually gets their way. Would you not agree with that or do you believe that everyone in the room has an opinion that has the exact same clout as the others?? The boss or the head man never tries to influence the others.

 

At least you agree with me that Whaley was the low man on that totem pole.

 

Brandon offers no opinion on personnel matters. That buck begins and ends on Whaley's desk, with those that need to give it, offering their opinions. During draft, that's gonna come primarily from scouts and coaches.

 

It's all done by consensus and in the rare case where one isn't reached, Whaley makes the final call.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[ChanOverChin]

BB, that's great because I want to be there when your 6 yr old repeats what you've said here in front of your wife. I can hear the 6 yr old now.........WTF......WTF.....WTF............WTF..................WTF.

 

Honey, it's time for bed. WTF!!

 

Honey, do you want milk with your cookies?? WTF.

 

Dear, please clean up your room. WTF!!

[Kirby Jackson]

BB, what does WTF stand for then?? At least admit when you're wrong.

 

I always get the sense that you're shouting when you post.

 

KJ, sorry that's a BS answer. They're not going to necessarily take the next guy on their board. What if it's a QB?? You said yourself that you believe the Bills are "all in" on Manuel.

 

The answer is that somebody will be forced to take the bull by the horns and make a decision for the team. In that sense, it's really not a "group" decision, now is it??

That somebody will be the man with the most clout

Those conversations & decisions are all made when the draft board is formed. That's the way that it really works despite what the movie Draft Day portrays. Kevin Costner does not stand up and make some bold declaration in front of a room full of minions. The work is all done in advance (sorry to disappoint). There are never these big dramatic moments when someone makes a bold decision against the group. They have already decided what they would do when presented with a particular situation.

[K-9]

If it was a collaborative decision then it was not necessarily Whaley's decision. That has been my point all along. He might have ultimately said okay just to get along or felt that it wasn't a bad move, but maybe not the one that he would have made had he been the high man on the totem pole.

 

From my experience of being in business with high level people, things might be presented as a "group decision", but ultimately when the final decision has to be made the man with the most clout usually seeks to influence the group the most. That is what I am saying here.

 

Remember that drafting Manuel in R1 was NOT a no-brainer. The move that the Bills made was viewed by many/MOST as a big reach.......almost a desperation move to acquire a potential franchise QB. Most people viewed Manuel as a R4 pick who needed several years to develop and even then there was no guarantee that he would be a full-fledged NFL starter.

 

Of course the Bills are going to say to the public that ALL of their decisions are determined by a consensus. But the bottom line is that someone in the room is charged with making the final decision and that person is typically the GM. I would venture a guess from what I mentioned above that not everyone agreed that the Bills should draft Manuel in R1.

 

It's clear you didn't bother to read any of the other accredited articles from my previous link. No problem. But they really do shoot down your entire premise on every level. Once and for all, the decision to draft Manuel was a UNANIMOUS decision among the scouts, coaches, and Whaley. Period. End of story.

 

There was every reason to believe that Manuel was gonna be picked in the latter third of the first round last year. If you read the articles, you'd know that. There's an ESPN audio link on the rotoworld sight where McShay says Manuel could go as high as the middle of the first according to what he was hearing.

 

You may rejoin your agenda now.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[ChanOverChin]

McShay is a horrible source. Never believe a word he says.

[K-9]

I don't harbor any ill will towards anybody who disagrees with me. I actually enjoy the banter back and forth.

 

I do have to wonder why Beerball is always dropping F-bombs on me though. LOL

 

I'd just like to know from the group who honestly are sold on the Bills' supposed "collaborative approach to everything", what happens when it's R2 and the clock is ticking down to zero???? Whaley likes a WR, Bandon likes an OT, Marrone likes a DE, and Monos likes a LB. How do they decide on which player to choose??

 

It all comes down to trusting your board and how the draft is falling to you. The consensus building is over a year in the making. I've never heard of a scenario as you described above. First, leave Brandon out of it entirely. Second, if a GM and Head Coach are at such odds at this point, there is something seriously wrong with the year long process that led up to it. Monos wouldn't have any say as a Director of Pro Personnel.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

EDIT: Apologies, I confused Monos with Fisher. Monos would offer his opinions on all scouting reports for the incoming class. If I had to guess, he'd probably mirror Marrone's opinion more than anybody else's.

 

McShay is a horrible source. Never believe a word he says.

 

Oh, I agree about McShay. I cite him because it'a an audio blurb backing up the other written articles you didn't bother to read. Additionally, the people I'm close to that would know a thing or two about where Maneul stood in the draft last year, also agree with that assessment. In the scouting world last year, Manuel had risen to a solid 1st round pick a week before the draft, with most projections putting him somewhere between 21-28. And there was no way he was getting past Chip Kelly. So, for the record, I don't put any stock in what any of these talking heads has to say unless I know they're getting it from reliable people within the community. And it's a shockingly small world.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited May 6, 2014 by K-9

[3rdand12]

I don't harbor any ill will towards anybody who disagrees with me. I actually enjoy the banter back and forth.

 

I do have to wonder why Beerball is always dropping F-bombs on me though. LOL

 

I'd just like to know from the group who honestly are sold on the Bills' supposed "collaborative approach to everything", what happens when it's R2 and the clock is ticking down to zero???? Whaley likes a WR, Bandon likes an OT, Marrone likes a DE, and Monos likes a LB. How do they decide on which player to choose??

The board is a fixed object. It also has equations .If this happens X then this is the answer = . its when the trades start popping and phones a ringin it gets hairy .

 

I guess my point is .. Our Boys have already decided .

 

and there is more than one board by the way.

[ChanOverChin]

"Those conversations & decisions are all made when the draft board is formed. That's the way that it really works despite what the movie Draft Day portrays. Kevin Costner does not stand up and make some bold declaration in front of a room full of minions."

 

I haven't seen that movie so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

 

"The work is all done in advance (sorry to disappoint). There are never these big dramatic moments when someone makes a bold decision against the group. They have already decided what they would do when presented with a particular situation. "

 

Really?? Never?? No disagreements?? You are really drinking the Kool-aid now my friend.

 

Let me ax you serious question, do you think the Bills made a wise move in drafting Manuel in R1 last year when they could have waited until this year to draft a better prospect??