Was Manuel Whaley's choice or Nix's??

[K-9]

Nix made the claim publicly that it was HIS intention to draft a QB of the future as the team's GM before he retired. Did he not make that claim or am I simply making that up??

 

MOST of the NFL experts and commentators at the 2013 draft thought that Manuel was a fairly large reach in R1, did they not??

 

Many of you are telling me that you think that Whaley was really making all of the decisions for last year's draft and that Nix was simply his puppet. That seems a little far-fetched to me.

 

As I watched the Bills' war room as the 2013 draft progressed, it was Nix who was standing up in front of everybody in that room and directing the entire show. Whaley was somewhere in the background, probably taking notes.

 

Here's a quote from the Buffalo News on May 17, 2013. When you get a chance, go to the link and read all sorts of blurbs from accredited articles. They touch upon Manuel's rise up the charts, the rampant rumors that the Jets, Eagles, Browns, were ALL interested in him in the first round, etc.

 

But in this quote, Whaley should dispel the questions you have about his role last year:

E.J. Manuel - QB - Bills

New Bills GM Doug Whaley was an "integral" part of drafting E.J. Manuel.

"I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board," Whaley said. "We think that we did enough due diligence and the information pointed us all to this point that E.J. would be the guy we feel will take the Buffalo Bills into the future." Buddy Nix's successor is setting himself up to take the credit — or blame — for Manuel's career. A major project compared to most recent first-round quarterbacks, there's no guarantee Manuel will make a positive impact as a rookie. It's entirely possible Whaley's reign as GM in Buffalo will be defined by Manuel's success or lack thereof.

 

 

Source: Buffalo News

Fri, May 17, 2013 08:29:00 AM

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Here's the link to any blurb about Manuel uttered since last year:

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/8331/ej-manuel

 

Some folks here actually know a few people who would know this kind of stuff. Might save you some time next time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[ChanOverChin]

"It’s a quarterback-driven league," said Whaley. "Our main focus is making sure E.J. progresses." Most mocks have the Bills taking a tackle at pick No. 9, but a North Carolina TE Eric Ebron would make sense as well. Buffalo has the roster to make a playoff push in 2014 if Manuel takes a leap forward. Based on his rookie-year performance, we're not overwhelmingly optimistic. Apr 26 - 9:17 AM

 

That's good news for Manuel. I'm not sure that it's good news for Bills' fans (i.e. putting your eggs all in one basket and hoping for the best).

 

Knowing that there are doubts about Manuel "making that leap" it only makes sense to bring in competition for him. If both work out the Bills win. Worst case scenario: the Bills trade one of them and likely get more than they gave up for him.

 

If only one works out, the Bills win. They finally find their franchise QB.

 

If Manuel doesn't work out, the team is right back where they started, more years wasted, more years not having made the playoffs. Whaley likely out of a job.

[bladiebla]

Does it matter?

 

First of all EJ wasnt supposed to start last year, they always acknowledged he needed work, but they saw the potential to develop him into a franchise qb. Their plan was to sit him for a year behind Kolb and bring him this year.

 

Secondly his injury history will be used as the main reason for failure if he does fail.

 

Thirdly because they started him last year they have basicly set him up to fail, as he will be judged by the fans this year. Hell, plenty of fans are allready passing judgement on him. It's not just the fans either, the pressure is on whilst he will still very much still be a rookie coming into this season. Not good.

 

In hind sight it would have been better for him to sit for a year, that way he would have his first year this year, we would be forgiven and he would be a lot farther in year three. As it stands now I'm in serious doubt if he'll even get to see year three as a starter.

Edited May 6, 2014 by bladiebla

[Kirby Jackson]

I am not trying pee in anyone's Cheerios or dispel any conspiracy theories but they were all on board with the pick. That is how the Bills make decisions.

[K-9]

I am not trying pee in anyone's Cheerios or dispel any conspiracy theories but they were all on board with the pick. That is how the Bills make decisions.

 

As I've stated numerous times in the past here and even in this thread, selecting a player in the draft is the epitome of consensus building. The decision actually is over a year in the making. Why anyone thinks this decision would reside with one individual is beyond me. Even if you haven't had exposure from the inside of these things, common sense would seem to dictate the reasoning.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kirby Jackson]

As I've stated numerous times in the past here and even in this thread, selecting a player in the draft is the epitome of consensus building. The decision actually is over a year in the making. Why anyone thinks this decision would reside with one individual is beyond me. Even if you haven't had exposure from the inside of these things, common sense would seem to dictate the reasoning.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Ha ha, I hear you. Sometimes we try to come up with situations and theories that best explain what we hope happens. I know that I am guilty of it. Unfortunately, it is not reality.

[machine gun kelly]

I know a number of you guys on this board are Ina position of authority with very talented people. An organization would not have the lame duck GM make the calls. As a matter of fact, a transition program even the year prior would have a significant footprint from Whaley.

 

Whaley owns last year's draft, and had a significant impact on the year before. Did you notice these last two years drafts have been an upgrade.

 

In Whaley we trust.

[K-9]

"It’s a quarterback-driven league," said Whaley. "Our main focus is making sure E.J. progresses." Most mocks have the Bills taking a tackle at pick No. 9, but a North Carolina TE Eric Ebron would make sense as well. Buffalo has the roster to make a playoff push in 2014 if Manuel takes a leap forward. Based on his rookie-year performance, we're not overwhelmingly optimistic. Apr 26 - 9:17 AM

 

That's good news for Manuel. I'm not sure that it's good news for Bills' fans (i.e. putting your eggs all in one basket and hoping for the best).

 

Knowing that there are doubts about Manuel "making that leap" it only makes sense to bring in competition for him. If both work out the Bills win. Worst case scenario: the Bills trade one of them and likely get more than they gave up for him.

 

If only one works out, the Bills win. They finally find their franchise QB.

 

If Manuel doesn't work out, the team is right back where they started, more years wasted, more years not having made the playoffs. Whaley likely out of a job.

 

So the first article cited on the rotoworld sight is the one you glom onto? Don't wish to look at the older articles from 12-15 months ago? No need to find one that counters your argument that Whaley wasn't all in on the EJ pick? Good luck with your agenda.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Pills -N- Bills]

We don't know.

 

We'll never know.

 

WTF does it matter?

 

Wow you added so much to the conversation...

[dave mcbride]

Have you got a link for that?

 

TG: http://mmqb.si.com/2...alo-bills-camp/

 

'When the Bills went to Florida State to scout Manuel, Whaley and president Russ Brandon went for a jog before they were scheduled to meet with the young quarterback. Brandon’s a big baseball fan, and when they passed by the baseball stadium, they saw FSU playing Georgia Tech, and they stopped to watch a couple of innings. “We meet a security guard,’’ said Brandon, “and he asked what we’re doing there, and he asked if we were there to see E.J. I said we were. He said, ‘I’ve been here 37 years, and he’s the best kid we’ve ever had.”'

 

http://blogs.buffalo...nuels-footwork/

 

Finally: http://profootballta...eather-workout/

 

In none of these stories does it say that Nix was present. Whaley, along with Brandon, Marrone, and Hackett, clearly were in Florida to scout him. Not Nix, as far as I can tell.

 

None of this should surprise. I'm sure Nix was phasing himself out. That draft was Whaley's. He said so himself.

Edited May 6, 2014 by dave mcbride

[ChanOverChin]

Actually K-9 I just pasted the first thing I saw from your link. You posted it man.

 

Did anybody bother to tell Nix that he was a lame duck GM for the last several years while Whaley was getting his ears wet??

 

See if you understand where I'm coming from. CEO/President/Vice President are charged with hiring a very important person in their organization. They need this guy to turn their organization around and rise above their competition. They meet as a group. They discuss everything about the candidate, pros & cons. They put him through a fitness test. They put him through an IQ test. He's not as highly thought of as some of the other candidates who have more refined skills. Everyone in the room states their case as to whom they would hire. The CEO makes his case very adamently and says this is who we're going to hire because this guy has the most potential, he's got good character, he's hard-working, he's polite, he's well-spoken. They hire the guy that the CEO likes and when questioned publicly everone in the room states that it was a "group decision". Does that then mean that the President and Vice President highly endorsed the hired candidate as THEIR candidate??

 

CEO = Nix

President = Brandon

Vice President = Whaley

[Manther]

Whaley was in the Kirk chair for last year's draft.

 

Drafting a player into the league is the very definition of consensus building and Manuel was no exception. What's interesting about the consensus built around the selection of EJ is that NOBODY thought the best scenario would be for him to come in and be the immediate starter, that he was a very promising but raw prospect, with all the intangibles you want to see before taking a chance on such a player.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Loved the Kirk chair quote!

[Kirby Jackson]

Actually K-9 I just pasted the first thing I saw from your link. You posted it man.

 

Did anybody bother to tell Nix that he was a lame duck GM for the last several years while Whaley was getting his ears wet??

 

See if you understand where I'm coming from. CEO/President/Vice President are charged with hiring a very important person in their organization. They need this guy to turn their organization around and rise above their competition. They meet as a group. They discuss everything about the candidate, pros & cons. They put him through a fitness test. They put him through an IQ test. He's not as highly thought of as some of the other candidates who have more refined skills. Everyone in the room states their case as to whom they would hire. The CEO makes his case very adamently and says this is who we're going to hire because this guy has the most potential, he's got good character, he's hard-working, he's polite, he's well-spoken. They hire the guy that the CEO likes and when questioned publicly everone in the room states that it was a "group decision". Does that then mean that the President and Vice President highly endorsed the hired candidate as THEIR candidate??

 

CEO = Nix

President = Brandon

Vice President = Whaley

The problem is you have the structure wrong. Russ is above both of them. Nix was more like a lame duck president riding out his last 2 months in office with Whaley in waiting.

[dave mcbride]

Whaley was in the Kirk chair for last year's draft.

 

Drafting a player into the league is the very definition of consensus building and Manuel was no exception. What's interesting about the consensus built around the selection of EJ is that NOBODY thought the best scenario would be for him to come in and be the immediate starter, that he was a very promising but raw prospect, with all the intangibles you want to see before taking a chance on such a player.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

A shot of Buddy in the draft room last year: http://anddeforestkelly.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/deadely-years-old-country-doctor.jpg

[ChanOverChin]

KJ,

 

The same principle applies though. When you make a decision as a "group" somebody in the group has more clout and that person usually gets their way. Would you not agree with that or do you believe that everyone in the room has an opinion that has the exact same clout as the others?? The boss or the head man never tries to influence the others.

 

At least you agree with me that Whaley was the low man on that totem pole.

[Kirby Jackson]

KJ,

 

The same principle applies though. When you make a decision as a "group" somebody in the group has more clout and that person usually gets their way. Would you not agree with that or do you believe that everyone in the room has an opinion that has the exact same clout as the others?? The boss or the head man never tries to influence the others.

 

At least you agree with me that Whaley was the low man on that totem pole.

I guess that I don't think that it is applicable. This decision was certainly made collaboratively (for better or worse). That is how the Bills make almost all of their decisions and certainly how they would make one this important. It is ultimately going to define the tenure of Marrone, Whaley, etc... Personally, I have my doubts on EJ but he's going o be the guy at least through this year.

[ChanOverChin]

If it was a collaborative decision then it was not necessarily Whaley's decision. That has been my point all along. He might have ultimately said okay just to get along or felt that it wasn't a bad move, but maybe not the one that he would have made had he been the high man on the totem pole.

 

From my experience of being in business with high level people, things might be presented as a "group decision", but ultimately when the final decision has to be made the man with the most clout usually seeks to influence the group the most. That is what I am saying here.

 

Remember that drafting Manuel in R1 was NOT a no-brainer. The move that the Bills made was viewed by many/MOST as a big reach.......almost a desperation move to acquire a potential franchise QB. Most people viewed Manuel as a R4 pick who needed several years to develop and even then there was no guarantee that he would be a full-fledged NFL starter.

 

Of course the Bills are going to say to the public that ALL of their decisions are determined by a consensus. But the bottom line is that someone in the room is charged with making the final decision and that person is typically the GM. I would venture a guess from what I mentioned above that not everyone agreed that the Bills should draft Manuel in R1.

[Kirby Jackson]

If it was a collaborative decision then it was not necessarily Whaley's decision. That has been my point all along. He might have ultimately said okay just to get along or felt that it wasn't a bad move, but maybe not the one that he would have made had he been the high man on the totem pole.

 

From my experience of being in business with high level people, things might be presented as a "group decision", but ultimately when the final decision has to be made the man with the most clout usually seeks to influence the group the most. That is what I am saying here.

 

Remember that drafting Manuel in R1 was NOT a no-brainer. The move that the Bills made was viewed by many/MOST as a big reach.......almost a desperation move to acquire a potential franchise QB. Most people viewed Manuel as a R4 pick who needed several years to develop and even then there was no guarantee that he would be a full-fledged NFL starter.

 

Of course the Bills are going to say to the public that ALL of their decisions are determined by a consensus. But the bottom line is that someone in the room is charged with making the final decision and that person is typically the GM. I would venture a guess from what I mentioned above that not everyone agreed that the Bills should draft Manuel in R1.

I am just telling you from what I know about this group that it was a collaborative decision. I guess to your point it wasn't Whaley's decision, it was not Buddy's, Brandon's or Marrone's either. That is just not how they operate. There were scouts involved, position coaches, etc... I am not basing this on what they say publicly but from my experience; that is how all big decisions are made in sports. You may have position coaches fighting for a particular guy in the 5th or 6th round but you have complete buy in before using a 1st on a franchise QB.

[ChanOverChin]

Yes, you have buy-in, but my point is that when the decision was made to draft Manuel in R1 Nix was the GM and Whaley was under him. I'm just saying that in that scenario Nix forged a plan and asked the group to go along with it. They eventually went along with it because it seemed plausible. it's exciting to think that you have finally found your franchise QB.

 

But once again, that DOES NOT mean that Whaley would have done the same thing had he been the GM and not Nix (i.e. the man with the most clout).

 

I've coached AAU basketball at the HS level for 20+ years as both the head coach and as an assistant. As the head coach, I make all of the major decisions 9i.e. what defenses to play, what type of offense to run vs man and vs zone). My assistants only offer their opinions to help where they can with those decisions.

 

As an assistant I'm essentially in the same boat as the assistants that work with me. I offer what I can, but I essentially go along wit what the HC wants.

 

In other words, ultimately there is ONE man who makes the final call, especially if there are disagreements on the way to move forward in the room. It's good to offer opinions even if they are contrary to others, but once the final decision is made the group supports that decision.

 

That's essentially what the Bills have done.

[Kirby Jackson]

Yes, you have buy-in, but my point is that when the decision was made to draft Manuel in R1 Nix was the GM and Whaley was under him. I'm just saying that in that scenario Nix forged a plan and asked the group to go along with it. They eventually went along with it because it seemed plausible. it's exciting to think that you have finally found your franchise QB.

 

But once again, that DOES NOT mean that Whaley would have done the same thing had he been the GM and not Nix (i.e. the man with the most clout).

 

I've coached AAU basketball at the HS level for 20+ years as both the head coach and as an assistant. As the head coach, I make all of the major decisions 9i.e. what defenses to play, what type of offense to run vs man and vs zone). My assistants only offer their opinions to help where they can with those decisions.

 

As an assistant I'm essentially in the same boat as the assistants that work with me. I offer what I can, but I essentially go along wit what the HC wants.

 

In other words, ultimately there is ONE man who makes the final call, especially if there are disagreements on the way to move forward in the room. It's good to offer opinions even if they are contrary to others, but once the final decision is made the group supports that decision.

 

That's essentially what the Bills have done.

If that's what you choose to believe go for it. I am telling you that was not the case. This was not one person pushing anyone to go along with it. They started the process by saying "we need a QB." They spent the entire offseason scouting, evaluating and discussing the prospects. The conclusion that they came to (right or wrong) was that EJ was their guy.

 

The only time that I have ever heard of 1 person making a decision in sports is the owner. That rarely works out and they usually alienate their top guys in the process.

 

When Marv was GM he once slept for 2 hours during the predraft meeting. He literally was sleeping as prospects were being discussed. He ultimately had the title of GM but virtually NO input on who was selected. Nix and Whaley have more say than that but by no means made that decision independent of one another. You can include Russ and Marrone in that group as well.