Hplarrm Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 GGThe loss of Ralph Wilson for the Bills and the virtually certain forced sale of Clipper franchise has created an unprecedented moment where not only are two major sport franchises on the market at the same time, but more importantly the specific situations in the two cases (In the Bills case, single owner without an obvious heir apparent from minority partners or his family, and in the Clippers case an unexpected sale which may well be done by the other owners (if they vote 75% to take over and sale the team according to rules which Sterling agreed to by contract). There are a couple of side effects of this turn of events which may well impact WNY directly. 1. From my perspective (which in addition to being addicted to how team does on the field of play, I also am intrigued by the who owns the game duel between the tem owners and players. The real answer to me is both, but the NFL has been set-up since the George Halas days where simply what the team owners says rules because he has the capital. The NFL ownership battle was revolutionized INMO by Pete Rozelle who led the NFL into a model which is far more socialistic than the traditional individual oriented capitalist model. Rozelle made the correct calculus in my view that there was more money to be made and a better product to be produced and sold from social cooperation than capitalist competition (for example, in the NFL you get a better draft choice not by being good, but by being bad. In a normal capitalist model, team compete to get better rewards by winning, Rozelle however realized that the NFL produces a better more sustainable product by keeping the losers competitive and the worse you performed on the field the better draft choices, first crack at free agents and other goodies you got. Rozelle also pioneered the ultimate socialist compact in that the true big buck produced by the NFL (the TV contracts) were to be divided evenly among the partner teams rather than the better teams and bigger markets got the bigger bucks). It is my sense that it Is the NFLs commitment to social compacts rather than traditional capitalism which is the basis for the economic juggernaut which is the NFL today. My sense is that the major development in terms of how this socialist structure has played out was seen when the team owners simply kicked the AFL/CIO led Ed Garvey NFLPA in a mid 80s labor dispute. The NFLPA had a clear strategy of seeing individual players collect their small (in comparison today) salaries during the regular season and then threaten to strike in the playoffs where the owners would make their bucks from the networks. The owners destroyed this plan though by locking out the players during pre-season and bringing in college level talent as replacement players. It took about 3 games and the NFLPA cracked and the players came crawling back to work. However, the team owners ended up getting hoist on their own pertard. One othergreat in the short term move the NFL team owners had pulled off had been to download the cost of training and developing players to the colleges. In other sports like MLB, the teams drafted and bid on youngsters from the age of 16. They paid these kids )and more accurately their parents) small but larger and larger amounts of cash due to capitalistic competition to sign and train these prodspects. The MLB team owners paid for large and in depth systems for developing and training major league players in a minor league system. The NFL on the other hand developed a system where college teams played the role of minor league teams in baseball (there is a version of this in hockey though the NBA system is a version of the NFL system but still has bunch of warts being worked out like the one and done basketball prospects- but that is a whole nother conversation). The NFL has saved its team owners beaucoup bucks by seeing colleges (including many of us taxpayers who are paying to train Khalil Mack to play in the NFL) pay to train and develop players. One of the outcomes of this short-term benefit for the NFLK though has been this lay the groundwork for the CBA between the NFLPA and NFL which currently defines the NFL is that not only are players delayed in becoming the "property" of the owners, but also they do not gain affiliation with a team until they are 21 or older. Fortunately for the NFL most of the players are drug saddled and addled jocks who have grown used to being told when to wake-up, when to sleep, what to eat, etc from their younger days on. However, even though jocks are not the easiest group to educate and organize, there is a talented tenth among the pro players who have figured out on their own what the fiscal game is and have the trust and ability to lead their fellow athletes to a new relationship with the team owners. The team owners broke the union in the mid 80s and created a vacuum of leadership which nature abhors. The talented tenth led by Gene Upshaw (and his followers such as the Bills Troy Vincent and Takeo Spikes who routinely used their offseason to take MBA classes at Harvard rather simply get all the girls they could eat in local bars) were smart and adult enough to hire their own Harvard educated lawyers who recommended to the players they threaten to decertify the NFLPA. Under the US system, the NFL was allowed to restrain the rights of individuals through activities like the NFL draft (which is almost like a Cuba in that forces other than the individual can simply tell you where you must live and who you must work for. When the NFLPA threatened to decertify itself, under US law and our commitment to the rights of the individual without the NFLPA or some other player driven union, the NFL team owners would have been forced to buy individual player talent in the free market. Without the Rozelle inspired socialist compact it would only be a matter of time until the rich would buy the best players and win individually as the whole would collapse a would of haves (the 1%) and the others (the 99%). The team owners ran kicking and screaming to sign the CBA rather than compete in the free market. The NFL arguably became partners with the team owners with the signing of the CBA in the 90s. Then when it came time to renew the CBA in the early 2000s Upshaw declared the new CBA would not only cover the total NFL receipts but in fact the NFLPA cut of the total receipts would need to start with a 6 (60.5% ended up being the final number). Arguably the players were not only partners but the majority partners in the new NFL. The owners (to some extent led by Ralph ironically) were simply forced to cave to this demand as it was made clear by the NFL successors to Rozelle like Tagliabue that the individual team owners would make more money from the TV networks with labor stability and partnership with the players than they would in system based on traditional American individual competition. The next step in this journey strikes me as potentially involving the bills ownership. Not only has a situation occurred where the NFLPA members do not affiliate with the teams until 21 or later, but also through the new CBA, the players are accumulating some serious capital. My sense is that the Jim Kelly led group might provide the new model for ownership in the NFL. The Bills are unusual in that you have a collection of HOF level players in Jimbo, Thurman, Bruce. and now Reed (you can even add perennial HoF finalist Tasker to that list) of well capitalized well respected players who have a long developed habit of teammate social contract operation. This group (and other capital holders they can attract)may set an example for progressing beyond the day when the team owners were simply large capital holders from their success at other businesses (construction in Ralph's case, dot.com in Snyder's case, inheritance in many cases though this has much less to do with any demonstrated business competence- though we see from Ralph's case that being great at one business does not assure even competence as a sports team owner). My sense (and hope actually) is that the transfer of the Bills from Ralph to the new owner will also mark the beginning of the transfer of the NFL from the old guard Halas/Wilson/Mara/Rooney/Marshall owner to the new system of former player ownership. I actually would prefer a league wide model of municipal Green Bay Packer type ownership, the player owner model strikes me as far superior to the captain of industry model which rules the day today and brings us Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones types. 2. I will spend less time on the second ownership trend which I see as it is more basded on the Donald Sterling NBA episode than an NFL thang as TSW is focused upon. However, though Sterling is an NBA guy, this same situation of dumb old racists being the team owners is central to the NFL as well documented and self-avowed racists like George Marshall who named his NFL franchise the Redskins (would you name your team the Chinks or the N-words because you were rich and stupid and should you be allowed to do so when it pisses off potential customers for your partners). At any rate, what appears to be happening due to the Clippers situation is that sources of capital such as Oprah Winfrey or even a collection of people of color who are rich and former NBA stars are now talking seriously about putting together capital collaboratives which can spend a billion $ to buy the Clippers. It strikes me as merely a matter of time until we see these collaboratives turn their attention to spending that billion to buy an NFL team like the Bills rather than buy an NBA product like the Clippers. Its a new day and I will not be surprised to begin seeing minority and former player owners of NFL teams like the Bills. In fact, since my understanding of the law is that much like the Rush Limbaugh case the NFLPA has an effective veto on NFL ownership groups, if Kelly and his former teammates put together a group then we will suddenly find that other competiting ownership efforts like Donald Trump suddenly find themselves judged by the NFL as ineligible applicants to bid for the team against a former player group led by Kelly. We are all socialists now because there is more money to be made that way.
pafan Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Not to make light of your post, and realizing that this contributes nothing to the conversation you're attempting to start, but I propose bringing the Clips back to Buffalo and letting one interest own both the Braves and the Bills... It's their destiny to make Buffalo whole again!
NoSaint Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 No cliff notes from me this time- any other volunteers?
Guffalo Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Well thought out argument and possible conclusion, one question... After the ownership group of players is established (Ie Kelly, Thurman etc.) and the group obtains control of a team, who will replace them after they pass? Could it not be passed to their heirs/corporate entity that again becomes a corporate ownership?
Hplarrm Posted May 1, 2014 Author Posted May 1, 2014 Well thought out argument and possible conclusion, one question... After the ownership group of players is established (Ie Kelly, Thurman etc.) and the group obtains control of a team, who will replace them after they pass? Could it not be passed to their heirs/corporate entity that again becomes a corporate ownership? Your observation about this is why I prefer the Green Bay/geographic municipality ownership model to the well-capitalized former player model. While I find the former player model well superior to the current "fat-cat" owner model because I think organized workers are superior to the old money rich guys generally, in the end the former players are better but have the same moral limitations that all too often come along with wealth inequality (absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely). I think society is on journey. This journey is seeing progress from the "good" ol days when George Halas used to throw around nickels like they were manhole covers to the modern system where not only are the workers (NFLPA) partners with the team owners, but arguably the majority partners, to the quickly coming next step where he team owners will be a lot of former players. Perhaps the next step in progress on this journey will be development of a model based on ownership by, of, and for the people!
Manther Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 No cliff notes from me this time- any other volunteers? Ha! Too long for me to read as well. I was sifting down for some cliff notes too! LMFAO!
Utah John Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 The key roadblock to either the Green Bay model or the former owners model is that the current owners have to approve all sales of teams. That's a very exclusive club and the guys in it want to bring in more people like themselves. They also don't like the GB model because if all the other clubs were owned by cities, they'd never be able to blackmail their own cities by threatening to move if they don't get new stadiums.
3rdnlng Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 This should be in PPP. What did we do to deserve this punishment?
meazza Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 That's pyrite gal long . Can someone summarize? Gatorman?
Hplarrm Posted May 2, 2014 Author Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) What did we do to deserve this punishment? You make the mistake of reading it. Folks always should be aware of their own brain capacity and avoid anything that they think exceeds it. Edited May 2, 2014 by Hplarrm
3rdnlng Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 You make the mistake of reading it. Folks always should be aware of their own brain capacity and avoid anything that they think exceeds it. You had to edit that post?
Hplarrm Posted May 2, 2014 Author Posted May 2, 2014 You had to edit that post? it was much shorter so as usual I added a bit.
TakeYouToTasker Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 That's pyrite gal long . Can someone summarize? Gatorman? Too Long, Didn't Read: Socialist constructs are more profitable than free markets.
Jauronimo Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) That's pyrite gal long . Can someone summarize? Gatorman? English as a second language, or perhaps stroke victim (maybe both), opens with a statement about the Clippers ownership situation possibly benefiting the Bills, then abandons that train of thought in order to recite the history of the NFL as interpreted through the lens of socialism vs. capitalism, featuring many long winded digressions into the draft, collective bargaining and free agency which have nothing at all to do with his opening thesis, before finally arriving at the conclusion that the Bills ownership model should resemble that of the Green Bay Packers, which is expressly forbidden from ever happening again, or perhaps Oprah and other minorities should buy an NFL team rather than a basketball team. Like every hplarrm post its a rambling mess and assault on the english language. So many parentheses left open leading you down a rabbit hole of gibberish, sentence structure and syntax which make every sentence as painful as possible. That abortion could have been summed up in 3 sentences. With the rumors of Kelly involved in an ownership group we may be seeing NFL ownership shift from old money and corporate types to rich athletes. These former players may have very different views on how free agency and the draft should work given their experiences. Oprah would be wiser to invest in the NFL than the NBA, in hplarrm's opinion. Edited May 2, 2014 by Jauronimo
Tiberius Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 What did we do to deserve this punishment? LOL!! Good one 3rd! You rock!
meazza Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 English as a second language, or perhaps stroke victim (maybe both), opens with a statement about the Clippers ownership situation possibly benefiting the Bills, then abandons that train of thought in order to recite the history of the NFL as interpreted through the lens of socialism vs. capitalism, featuring many long winded digressions into the draft, collective bargaining and free agency which have nothing at all to do with his opening thesis, before finally arriving at the conclusion that the Bills ownership model should resemble that of the Green Bay Packers, which is expressly forbidden from ever happening again, or perhaps Oprah and other minorities should buy an NFL team rather than a basketball team. Like every hplarrm post its a rambling mess and assault on the english language. So many parentheses left open leading you down a rabbit hole of gibberish, sentence structure and syntax which make every sentence as painful as possible. That abortion could have been summed up in 3 sentences. With the rumors of Kelly involved in an ownership group we may be seeing NFL ownership shift from old money and corporate types to rich athletes. These former players may have very different views on how free agency and the draft should work given their experiences. Oprah would be wiser to invest in the NFL than the NBA, in hplarrm's opinion. Thank you sir for sparing me the original well thought out properly structured thesis.
DC Tom Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 That's pyrite gal long . Can someone summarize? Gatorman? You should read it. Never has so little been said in so many words with such epic hilarity by such a dolt.
meazza Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) You should read it. Never has so little been said in so many words with such epic hilarity by such a dolt. I drew the line at 65% of the length of OC posts. The line must be drawn here, this far, no farther! Edited May 2, 2014 by meazza
Chef Jim Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 You should read it. Never has so little been said in so many words with such epic hilarity by such a dolt. Dolt?? Have you used up your weekly allotment of idiot?
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