Kirby Jackson Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 So, if you knew there would be a run on non-QB's, you would do the OP trade -- Our 1st, 2nd and Stevie to move up to 4 ? That's more than I would do (I think). I would do a 1st, 3rd & Stevie. I would always trade 4 quarters for a dollar. If they feel that Watkins will be a top 5-10 WR then I am good with it.
juno999 Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Supposing they want a QB they believe they can get at 9, they get a proven WR to play opposite Josh Gordon, get their QB, and have an extra pick early in the 2nd, all for moving back 5 spots. Yup
Kellyto83TD Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 My sources have reported back...and raise the BS flag
Kirby Jackson Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Saying 6-10 is not meaningless. Luck, or the bounce of the oblong spheroid has nothing to do with all the constant wrong decisions, and stupid mistakes made by the FO year after year. This team has been a few players away for 14 years, and can't get it done. They haven't even had but ONE winning season in all that time. One season out of fourteen, and that was 9-7 back in 2004. The closest this team has been to a winning season since 2004 was under Dick Jauron at 7-9 with JP Losman, Trent Edwards at QB...10 years ago. Year after year the stupidity never seems to end with no accountability until their respective three years are up. This past season the Bills had a relatively weak season schedule, and still went 6-10. Stupid mistakes, and wrong decisions were the reason. The team made obvious choices in the off season that so many fans here questioned, and most of them knew before the season started it wasn't going to go well. When you look at last years rushing stats, and really break down everything that happened every game, You come away with the understanding that the Bills simply could not control the line of scrimmage by passing or running. The Bills were almost last in every ball control percentage. The Bills ran the ball so well because they ran 70% of the time behind one solid lineman, and they have two very talented RB's. The Bills were ranked 29th in run blocking by PFF. First off, EJ or any of those young 2nd year QB's aren't going to be able to step it up if they have no pocket to step up into. That O line didn't drastically improve in the off season as the team added yet another scrub at LG, its SSDY . Sammy Watkins isn't going to make a damn bit of difference on a losing team with the QB's running for their lives. The Lions have Matthew Stafford at QB and Calvin Johnson and still find ways to lose games. The Texans have Andre Johnson. The Cowboys have Dez Bryant The Falcons have Matt Ryan at QB, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalaz and still went 4-12...etc, etc, etc. What were the Texans, Falcons, Lions and Cowboys combined records in 2012? Would you rather: A) draft OL in rounds 1 & 2 and be 8-8 B) trade up, draft no OL at all & be 9-7
FluffHead Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 My sources have reported back...and raise the BS flag My sources say the BS flag in itself is a smokescreen
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Saying 6-10 is not meaningless. Luck, or the bounce of the oblong spheroid has nothing to do with all the constant wrong decisions, and stupid mistakes made by the FO year after year. This team has been a few players away for 14 years, and can't get it done. They haven't even had but ONE winning season in all that time. One season out of fourteen, and that was 9-7 back in 2004. The closest this team has been to a winning season since 2004 was under Dick Jauron at 7-9 with JP Losman, Trent Edwards at QB...10 years ago. Year after year the stupidity never seems to end with no accountability until their respective three years are up. This past season the Bills had a relatively weak season schedule, and still went 6-10. Stupid mistakes, and wrong decisions were the reason. The team made obvious choices in the off season that so many fans here questioned, and most of them knew before the season started it wasn't going to go well. When you look at last years rushing stats, and really break down everything that happened every game, You come away with the understanding that the Bills simply could not control the line of scrimmage by passing or running. The Bills were almost last in every ball control percentage. The Bills ran the ball so well because they ran 70% of the time behind one solid lineman, and they have two very talented RB's. The Bills were ranked 29th in run blocking by PFF. First off, EJ or any of those young 2nd year QB's aren't going to be able to step it up if they have no pocket to step up into. That O line didn't drastically improve in the off season as the team added yet another scrub at LG, its SSDY . Sammy Watkins isn't going to make a damn bit of difference on a losing team with the QB's running for their lives. The Lions have Matthew Stafford at QB and Calvin Johnson and still find ways to lose games. The Texans have Andre Johnson. The Cowboys have Dez Bryant The Falcons have Matt Ryan at QB, Roddy White, Tony Gonzalaz and still went 4-12...etc, etc, etc. Watching every game last year, there is an alternate outcome without too much imagination used. The Kansas City game where we out gained them about 500 to 200, as an example. I would rather be in a position like the Bills are looking forward, instead of being the team that was the beneficiary of an unsustainable record. You can always look back 15 years and attach it to the current team if you want. This is a more talented team than we have had in awhile. I choose to look forward with optimism, rather than backward with pessimism.
dubs Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Um.... Why would the Browns want SJ when they could just draft Watkins for less than half his salary? CBF Because they would still get the 9 pick and another. So maybe Evans is there. Would you rather have Evans, SJ, and another pick in the draft or just Watkins. Personally, I don't want the Bills to give away picks in what's supposed to be one of the deepest drafts in a long time and we have a ton of needs.
Manther Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Something to think about trading up to get Sammy Watkins in the #4 spot. Firstly, I am not sure if it is the best play. But, I thought about doing some quick research about the first WR taken in the draft over the last 10 drafts. Here they are... 2013 - at #8 Tavon Austin 2012 - at #5 Justin Blackmon 2011- at #4 AJ Green 2011 - at #6 Julio Jones (honorable mention) 2010 - at #22 Demaryius Thomas 2009 - Darius Heyward-Bey 2008 - N/A none in 1st round 2007 - at #2 Calvin Johnson 2006 - at #25 Santonio Holmes 2005 - at #3 Braylon Edwards 2004 - at #3 Larry Fitzgerald There are many ways to slice and dice it. But, I think it proves mostly that the first WR off the board has a high percentage of panning out to be a stud when they are taken early in the draft. Look at it these two ways to increase the odds. 1. If you take the top WR and he is in the top 4 overall (AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitzgerald)...you have a 75% chance (3 of 4) of drafting a stud 10 year WR. 2. If you take the 1st or 2nd WR off the board in the top 6 (AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitzgerald, Justin Blackmon, Julio Jones)...you have a 67% chance (4 of 6) of drafting a stud 10 year WR. Taking a WR with more chance may or may not pan out. I think Stevie is a throw in if replaced (and I am not a fan of him). So, you are giving up a 2nd round pick in a DEEP draft to roll the dice on the best WR. For those who say he is missing the height of the others, his vertical makes up for it. Just food for thought. It may not be my first choice either, but, if it happens, I will wait and see and NOT be dissappointed. We will need to strike great on our 3rd rounder for sure. If we could do next years 2nd instead of this years 2nd that would be great. If we could get a later pick in the draft back in a deep draft that would help us try to hit on someone else since we are already missing our 6th rounder, great. Having Watkins, Woods, Goodwin and Williams is legit for next year AND the future! Thoughts?
Kipers Hair Posted April 30, 2014 Author Posted April 30, 2014 How about our 1st and 3rd round pick and Manny Lawson. Manny does not fit the new Bills defense and we know what he can do with Pettines system. they love their LB's in Cleveland between Mingo Groves, Kruger and Sheard - no interest in Lawson there....
3rdand12 Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 What were the Texans, Falcons, Lions and Cowboys combined records in 2012? Would you rather: A) draft OL in rounds 1 & 2 and be 8-8 B) trade up, draft no OL at all & be 9-7 In short 8 and 8. . I consider OL a solid investment at this point. Then as Whaley said , you dont have to think about it for 10 ? years . That is when the team truly has the freedom to take playmakers and or risks Watching every game last year, there is an alternate outcome without too much imagination used. The Kansas City game where we out gained them about 500 to 200, as an example. I would rather be in a position like the Bills are looking forward, instead of being the team that was the beneficiary of an unsustainable record. You can always look back 15 years and attach it to the current team if you want. This is a more talented team than we have had in awhile. I choose to look forward with optimism, rather than backward with pessimism. You do know his screen name ? they love their LB's in Cleveland between Mingo Groves, Kruger and Sheard - no interest in Lawson there.... Probably rather have Hughes eh ? wink
Best Player Available Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Jesus God no. The NFL is riddled with can't miss college wide receivers barely hanging onto their jobs. The Bills still need to stockpile talent, not risk multiple picks on hope. If anything trade down. The Bills have sold "hope" for way too long. You are correct.But, it would be nice to have a true NFL #1 wideout, instead of hoping one on the roster will pan out. I do not think the team has anyone with #1 potential on the roster though. And, there are way more than 2 wide receivers in this draft that have the potential to be that guy. Depending on how the scouting staff and GM did their homework maybe they find him in the second round.
Big C Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 Something to think about trading up to get Sammy Watkins in the #4 spot. Firstly, I am not sure if it is the best play. But, I thought about doing some quick research about the first WR taken in the draft over the last 10 drafts. Here they are... 2013 - at #8 Tavon Austin 2012 - at #5 Justin Blackmon 2011- at #4 AJ Green 2011 - at #6 Julio Jones (honorable mention) 2010 - at #22 Demaryius Thomas 2009 - Darius Heyward-Bey 2008 - N/A none in 1st round 2007 - at #2 Calvin Johnson 2006 - at #25 Santonio Holmes 2005 - at #3 Braylon Edwards 2004 - at #3 Larry Fitzgerald There are many ways to slice and dice it. But, I think it proves mostly that the first WR off the board has a high percentage of panning out to be a stud when they are taken early in the draft. Look at it these two ways to increase the odds. 1. If you take the top WR and he is in the top 4 overall (AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitzgerald)...you have a 75% chance (3 of 4) of drafting a stud 10 year WR. 2. If you take the 1st or 2nd WR off the board in the top 6 (AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitzgerald, Justin Blackmon, Julio Jones)...you have a 67% chance (4 of 6) of drafting a stud 10 year WR. Taking a WR with more chance may or may not pan out. I think Stevie is a throw in if replaced (and I am not a fan of him). So, you are giving up a 2nd round pick in a DEEP draft to roll the dice on the best WR. For those who say he is missing the height of the others, his vertical makes up for it. Just food for thought. It may not be my first choice either, but, if it happens, I will wait and see and NOT be dissappointed. We will need to strike great on our 3rd rounder for sure. If we could do next years 2nd instead of this years 2nd that would be great. If we could get a later pick in the draft back in a deep draft that would help us try to hit on someone else since we are already missing our 6th rounder, great. Having Watkins, Woods, Goodwin and Williams is legit for next year AND the future! Thoughts? I think Blackmon still has a shot to be a stud too. His off field issues have really screwed up his early career, but in the few games he played last year he was great.
Baba Booey Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 If true I would obviously welcome Watkins, but I'll also go on record against this deal because giving up a 2nd Round pick in this Draft is dumb, stupid, ill-advised, and...did I say dumb yet? The deepest Draft in recent memory and we are going to give up #41? Ugh...I HATE that idea...Hate, hate, hate it... couldnt agree more!!! need that second rounder to get a WR, TE, or OT. Dumb move if true.
KOKBILLS Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 The Bills have sold "hope" for way too long. You are correct. But, it would be nice to have a true NFL #1 wideout, instead of hoping one on the roster will pan out. I do not think the team has anyone with #1 potential on the roster though. And, there are way more than 2 wide receivers in this draft that have the potential to be that guy. Depending on how the scouting staff and GM did their homework maybe they find him in the second round. Agreed... The Bills have bounced back from some poor Draft years to land Aaron Williams, Cordy Glenn, Kiko Alonso, and Robert Woods in the 2nd Round over the past three years combined...That's pretty darn good...And why I'm so opposed to giving up #41 in the deepest talent Draft in recent memory...No matter how this thing shakes out there is going to be serious talent available at #41 this year...The deeper the Draft the better the chance that a player like Cordy Glenn slides down a bit...And at the WR position I promise everyone here...there may not be an equal to Sammie Watkins at #41...but there will be a very good prospect available if the Bills choose to go WR...My personal preference is Jordan Matthews who Greg Gabriel compares very favorably to Reggie Wayne...I just can't see how coming out of the 1st two rounds with say...Ebron and Matthews...or...Lewan and Matthews...is not quite a bit better than Sammie Watkins alone... Finally consider this...If Sammie Watkins compares to Julio Jones, Eric Ebron compares to Vernon Davis, and Jordan Matthews compares to Reggie Wayne...What would you rather have? Julio Jones alone, or the combination of Davis and Wayne? Or...Look at it this way...Would you trade Vernon Davis, a 2nd Round pick that projects to be a Reggie Wayne-type, and Stevie Johnson, for Julio Jones? I mean...I love Julio Jones...I love Sammie Watkins for that matter...But no way do I do that deal...
Pete Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I am all down for selecting Aaron Donald at pick #9 if the top 8 yada yada are gone. Imagine the possibilities of rushing Donald Williams Darius Kyle and Hughes!
Chandler#81 Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I'm actually looking at it differently. I don't view it necessarily as a "win now" move. You're getting the opportunity to lock up an elite playmaker at a cap-friendly rate for five years. You're giving up a declining, overpaid vet and a second round pick that may or may not work out (and only gets a four-year deal, right?). You gotta take that opportunity if it presents itself. I agree except the 2rder is too much, unless DW has something else up his sleeve. Swap 1sts, SJ and maybe next years 2nd -if they really like a guy now and that's what it would take to giterdone. For those claiming we're a very good team, snake-bitten in 4 games last year, we barely sneaked past Mia there, Jags played us tough and barely snuck past Carolina. Can anyone here imagine Stevie Johnson DROPPING a game winning, all alone in the endzone pass??? We NEED all our picks.
NickelCity Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 I love Sammy Watkins, but I want a windfall of OLinemen in our draft.
Astrobot Posted April 30, 2014 Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Get Both Watkins and linemen. RD1 Watkins WRF Clemson RD3 Dakota Dozier OG Furman RD4 Seantrel Henderson OT Miami RD5 Joe Don Duncan TE Dixie State RD7 Bennett Jackson CB Notre Dame Edited April 30, 2014 by Astrobot
DC Grid Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Anyone concerned with the nutso math here? In this draft it's almost in unfathomable that the number 9 and 41 and SJ would not make more of an impact than Watkins alone. SJ had a down year but he could easily be a top 40 WR...add that to a bookend OT like Mathews or franchise TE potential like Ebron and whoever you can get in the second and I don't see how this trade helps the Bills. SJ also happens to be the only guy who can consistently get open vs the Pats new CB Revis.
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