hondo in seattle Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Thats a pretty long Chinese whisper: Watkins says that Doug Whaley says that they are going to move up to get him and then he tells the WR coach at Clemson, who then tells your friend, who then tells you. Not saying it didn't happen, but thats a long string. The more I read, the less l think the Bills are taking Watkins. Too many unnamed thrice-removed sources.
qwksilver Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I don't have a problem going up for Watkins, it's just too much in my opinion. 9,73 & sj with 4th round in2015 would be much better. They have made great picks in the 2nd round the last few years. Kiko, Glenn, Byrd, Woods, hell even Levitre. Please make sure to keep 41. Also with what "we're going to offer" couldn't we get to 2 (Rams pick)?
Canadian Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Maybe the Rams will remember how we traded with them last year and will return the favor by giving us a decent deal in terms of what we would be gving up. CBF
maryland-bills-fan Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I think we do. A TE with the size and speed of Ebron can open up the running game, spread out the defense, and create softer coverage for our receivers. CBF and a QB flat on his back, people doubling and running away from Mario's side and a hole at linebacker......... year right.
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) The Ourlads mock is worth reading because they know what they're talking about. If nothing else, I love how they characterize Clowney's speed: faster than grass through a goose! If they're to be believed, a) Watkins, who they see as a truly elite player, will be gone by 3, and b) the Bills projected pick, Ebron is a cut below the elite top end of the draft (i.e., "perfunctory effort"). I can see why the Bills may want to trade up. http://www.ourlads.c...ock-draft/2014/ I don't know much about their pick for the Bills in rd 2, Donte Moncrief ( http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1878014/donte-moncrief ). Edited May 1, 2014 by dave mcbride
jumbalaya Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 If they are saying this it means we are really targeting a trade with ATL at 6 to get Evans.
YoloinOhio Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 If they are saying this it means we are really targeting a trade with ATL at 6 to get Evans. That would be phemomenal... they would be moving up only 3 spots, would cost less, get Evans. YOLO.
maryland-bills-fan Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) The only one worth giving up picks is Clowney. He would be a huge difference maker in the defense. It would be pronounced. Now if Houston really picks Manzel, then we might be able to work a deal for Clowney at #2. Otherwise, you stay where we are or trade down and get another 2nd rounder. That would be nice and just load up on the already discussed, WR, RT, TE, and so on. I don't see Watkins as such a difference maker to warrant giving up picks. Don't get me wrong. He is a heck of a player, but not such a difference maker that we give away picks in a deep draft. cf: http://forums.twobil...ove-up-in-2014/ In terms of what the Bills would have to give up in picks it would be: pick.......give up ===================================== 1........... entire draft 2014 and 2015 plus a 2nd in 2016? 2... ..........1st, 2nd, & 4th this year, next year's 1st 3.............1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks 4.............1st, 2nd round and 5th round pick 5.............1st, 3rd and 4th round pick 6.............1st, 3rd and 7th round pick 7.............1st, 4th, 5th and 7th round pick 8.............1st, 5th and 7th round pick 9................nothing Or, alternately, in terms of what we would have left in the way of picks in the draft pick........have left ======================================== 1...........nothing and nothing next year and no first in 2016 2...........#41, 5th 7th, LOSE next year’s 1st round pick 3.............#3, 5th, 7th 4.............#4, 5th, 7th 5.............#5, #41, 5th 7th 6.............#6, #41, 4th, 5th 7.............#7, #41, #73 8...............#8, #41, #73, 4th 9................#9, #41, #73, 4th, 5th, 7th Edited May 1, 2014 by maryland-bills-fan
Wayne Cubed Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 The Ourlads mock is worth reading because they know what they're talking about. If nothing else, I love how they characterize Clowney's speed: faster than grass through a goose! If they're to be believed, a) Watkins, who they see as a truly elite player, will be gone by 3, and b) the Bills projected pick, Ebron is a cut below the elite top end of the draft (i.e., "perfunctory effort"). I can see why the Bills may want to trade up. http://www.ourlads.c...ock-draft/2014/ I don't know much about their pick for the Bills in rd 2, Donte Moncrief ( http://www.cbssports.../donte-moncrief ). In my mind it makes sense to get up into at least that top 6, if the Bills truly want and elite player. I'm off the opinion it may only take a 3rd. We've seen precedence that the Dolphins were able to move from 12 to 3 last year with Oakland giving up only a 2nd. Does Oakland want to play ball again, so 9 to 5 for the Bills 3rd? I think it's certainly a possibility. Will it get them Watkins, thats another story.
Pete Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 The Ourlads mock is worth reading because they know what they're talking about. If nothing else, I love how they characterize Clowney's speed: faster than grass through a goose! If they're to be believed, a) Watkins, who they see as a truly elite player, will be gone by 3, and b) the Bills projected pick, Ebron is a cut below the elite top end of the draft (i.e., "perfunctory effort"). I can see why the Bills may want to trade up. http://www.ourlads.c...ock-draft/2014/ so according to ourlads scouting report Ebron can't block and is bad at running routes. No thank you. The bills need more value at 9 then a one dimensional Dustin Keller. Aaron Donald, Ryan Shazier, Zack Martin would all be better picks and offer more production first year. We are close and can't whiff on this pick
thewildrabbit Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Fair enough. Personally I think that the safest players in this draft are Watkins, Mathews and Mack with Clowney & Robinson right behind them (with their freak physical skills). I guess that I am okay getting one player that can make an AJ Green impact instead of 2 guys that could make a Stevie Johnson impact. I am not talking two receivers but just where those players rank league wide. It's kind of the dollar over 4 quarters argument. This draft is obviously deep but it also possess a few stars. I am okay sacrificing two good players for 1 great player. As a realistic example I am okay with Watkins over Ebron & Joel Bitonio. In a draft this deep they can potentially still find starters in the 3rd & 4th if they were to trade up. The thing is I'm not sold that he will make the impact you think he will, and giving up a 2nd round pick along with a proven starter or more draft picks is what I'd be unwilling to do. This regime could almost instantly solidify the entire offense in this one draft if done properly. With a trade back I see at least three immediate starters on offense with a no later then #15 first round pick, and two #2's, and if they keep SJ in the process that is four starters. We both know that anything drafted after the second round is a total gamble with this team. Will WR Mike Williams return to his 2012 form, and stay out of trouble? Will Chris Hairston return to his 2012 form? The best the guy has done is a 12 game season. Will Tony Moeaki return to his 2010 form? So many unanswered questions about several players, and to go all in on one player seems like a huge gamble to me. Whaley needs to protect his chosen QB, more then finding a new toy that may or may not work out.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 The thing is I'm not sold that he will make the impact you think he will, and giving up a 2nd round pick along with a proven starter or more draft picks is what I'd be unwilling to do. This regime could almost instantly solidify the entire offense in this one draft if done properly. With a trade back I see at least three immediate starters on offense with a no later then #15 first round pick, and two #2's, and if they keep SJ in the process that is four starters. We both know that anything drafted after the second round is a total gamble with this team. Will WR Mike Williams return to his 2012 form, and stay out of trouble? Will Chris Hairston return to his 2012 form? The best the guy has done is a 12 game season. Will Tony Moeaki return to his 2010 form? So many unanswered questions about several players, and to go all in on one player seems like a huge gamble to me. Whaley needs to protect his chosen QB, more then finding a new toy that may or may not work out. Fair enough, obviously there are still holes (specifically on offense). Where we disagree is that I think that Watkins will produce as much this year as Stevie (whom I like) has in his career. I think that 1,000 yards and 8TDs is what I expect as a rookie. He is pro ready with fantastic skills after the catch. To your point that doesn't fill the other holes. I am banking on the gap in his production to someone like Cody Lattimer being enough to warrant the selection. As a long term piece as well, it is always nice to find elite talents. If they were to use their 2nd (which even I am hesitant to do) I would target someone like Mewhort in the 3rd. He can play many positions and could start at RT IMO. If Hairston is healthy enough to play there perhaps Mewhort plays LG. In addition, I'd take a flier on Colt Lyerla to play TE.
thebandit27 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Fair enough, obviously there are still holes (specifically on offense). Where we disagree is that I think that Watkins will produce as much this year as Stevie (whom I like) has in his career. I think that 1,000 yards and 8TDs is what I expect as a rookie. He is pro ready with fantastic skills after the catch. To your point that doesn't fill the other holes. I am banking on the gap in his production to someone like Cody Lattimer being enough to warrant the selection. As a long term piece as well, it is always nice to find elite talents. If they were to use their 2nd (which even I am hesitant to do) I would target someone like Mewhort in the 3rd. He can play many positions and could start at RT IMO. If Hairston is healthy enough to play there perhaps Mewhort plays LG. In addition, I'd take a flier on Colt Lyerla to play TE. One other move that I think would be very future-focused would be to draft Brandon Thomas of Clemson in the 4th or 5th if he's available. He was on his way to becoming a top 45 pick before tearing his ACL in a private workout, and would be an Andrew Whitworth type player--a guy that can start at LG and also play LT. Sure, he wouldn't contribute this year, but imagine a left side of Glenn-Thomas-Wood...
BobbyC81 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 How on gods green earth does a 6-10 team with a corps of 2nd year QB's, and a bad O line see themselves as playoff contenders? I literally had a good laugh when I read that remark. Have the Bills FO people been partying with Rob Ford recently? I know you have to consider that the final record was 6-10 and good teams win the close games but you have to take a look at some of the losses along with the inexperience at QB. Week 1 vs Pats- Bills hung with Patriots despite being outgained and it took a last secord FG for Pats to win Week 3 vs Jets- game was tied in 4th quarter until Justin Rogers got burned by Santonio Holmes Week 5 vs Browns- game tied after 3 Qtrs- Bills still only down 6 in last 2 minutes when undrafted rookie QB Tuel throws pick-six Week 7 vs Bengals- Bills rally behind backup QB Lewis to take eventual division winning Bengals to OT with Bengals winning Week 9 vs Chiefs- Bills outplayed eventual 11 win wild card KC for most of the game. With 7 pt lead in 3rd qtr, Bills were in red zone looking for another score when Tuel throws a 100 yd pick six. 4th Qtr fumble returned for another score and Bills lose by 10. Week 13 vs Atlanta- Falcons won in OT but Bills were in position to win in regulation time and OT but two unfortunate fumbles killed them.
machine gun kelly Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I know you have to consider that the final record was 6-10 and good teams win the close games but you have to take a look at some of the losses along with the inexperience at QB. Week 1 vs Pats- Bills hung with Patriots despite being outgained and it took a last secord FG for Pats to win Week 3 vs Jets- game was tied in 4th quarter until Justin Rogers got burned by Santonio Holmes Week 5 vs Browns- game tied after 3 Qtrs- Bills still only down 6 in last 2 minutes when undrafted rookie QB Tuel throws pick-six Week 7 vs Bengals- Bills rally behind backup QB Lewis to take eventual division winning Bengals to OT with Bengals winning Week 9 vs Chiefs- Bills outplayed eventual 11 win wild card KC for most of the game. With 7 pt lead in 3rd qtr, Bills were in red zone looking for another score when Tuel throws a 100 yd pick six. 4th Qtr fumble returned for another score and Bills lose by 10. Week 13 vs Atlanta- Falcons won in OT but Bills were in position to win in regulation time and OT but two unfortunate fumbles killed them. Good post. This year is a wildcard. Too many variables to predict. New coaches, what happens in the draft, how these new free agents pan out, injuries, etc.. Remember everyone wrote off A. Williams, and McKelvin. Who knows how well Graham could pan out at free safety? What about Spikes? Will he kill it in Schwartz system and stop the run? I could keep going, but you get the point. Anyone predicting a winning or losing record is just air. I'm just excited to see Whaley and Marrone have an excellent draft. We'll see what we start watching pre-season games.
Steve O Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Haven't read through 13 pages of responses but I see Watkins as more of a Ted Ginn Jr than a Calvin Johnson, so I'm against trading up for him. With Woods, SJ, Goodwin, Bardin, and Williams already on the roster not to mention Graham and Kaufmann (who may end up at tight end if he really is 245) I really think we have bigger needs then WR and can do pretty good in the mid rounds if the coaches feel it is still a need. Really don't want to give up a second round pick to land Watkins.
BobbyC81 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Trust me when I tell you that he does: I've made the comparison before and won't go through the #s again, but if Percy Harvin can fetch a 1, 4, and 7, Stevie can fetch a 3 for certain. I don't know about that. The Niners may have gotten a "brother discount" in getting A.Boldin for a 6th but I think Boldin is better than Stevie. I think the best they might get is a 5th.
Jamie Nails Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Haven't read through 13 pages of responses but I see Watkins as more of a Ted Ginn Jr than a Calvin Johnson, so I'm against trading up for him. With Woods, SJ, Goodwin, Bardin, and Williams already on the roster not to mention Graham and Kaufmann (who may end up at tight end if he really is 245) I really think we have bigger needs then WR and can do pretty good in the mid rounds if the coaches feel it is still a need. Really don't want to give up a second round pick to land Watkins. Dude. This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs. Sizzle sizzle, pop pop. Watkins is no Ginn.
KOKBILLS Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 so according to ourlads scouting report Ebron can't block and is bad at running routes. No thank you. The bills need more value at 9 then a one dimensional Dustin Keller. I respect Ourlads...But there are others I respect that disagree with that assessment... I'm not saying I love Ebron at #9...But I don't hate it either...The only thing I've heard just about every scout agree on as far as Ebron's negatives are concerned is the fact that he did have his fair share of drops...Other than that I've heard more than one scout say that Ebron is a willing blocker and will get better in that area if he is asked to do it more often...He's not Jace Amaro in the blocking area...He's willing...And in the games I saw live this year (3 games) the kid really looked good...The other thing about Ebron I like is the fact that no one wants to be great more than he does...He's borderline cocky...But very confident... Here's a report from an ex NFL Director Of Scouting with 29 years of NFL Scouting experience... http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=15
NoSaint Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 To your point that doesn't fill the other holes. I am banking on the gap in his production to someone like Cody Lattimer being enough to warrant the selection. As a long term piece as well, it is always nice to find elite talents. perhaps perspective on the gap from elite WR to the second tier -- if you look at the AJ/julio year the second and third rounders are greg little, torrey smith, titus young, austin pettis, hankerson, randall cobb, vincent brown, jernigan.... thats not to say that the two classes are identical by any means, but even at the high end of those guys (which are very good players that id enjoy on my team) the gap to Julio and AJ Green is HUGE in my opinion. IF they believe watkins can justify that kind of premium, id be hardpressed to argue against it. its the discussion between good nfl wrs to special nfl talents. we have some good wrs, a good tight end... the prospect of adding someone special to that group is huge though. just a matter of if you believe that watkins is special.
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